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#21
04-16-2007, 10:25 AM
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Yikes. Interesting theory. I have been hearing that something is killing off the bees but that is the first I've heard of the cellphone theory. While I would be able to give up my own cellphone, it would be hard. My guess is the vast majority of Americans wouldn't.
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#22
04-16-2007, 12:51 PM
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I actually prefer simple living (of course on my budget I have to) But after doing alot of moving throughout the years(My mother's and my own) I frankly got tired of all the stuff. Perhaps the less is more motto applies here, not that I have to live with just the bare necessities, but I found that as I had less clutter and stuff in my life I actually liked it better. When my mother died , I just got rid of alot of stuff that she had, alot of it was donated, most of it was new or in very good condition but I just did not want to store it or keep it,alot of it I wouldn't use anyway...Her most expensive jewelry I wasn't interested in and let my brothers have it for their daughters. But I will tell you there was alot of STUFF.UUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH,LOL
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#23
08-11-2007, 12:27 PM
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I wanted to bump this.
Last Saturday, our community had its annual Yard Sale. Many residents gathered their unwanted belongings and set up shop in their front yards, back yards, and garages. It was a beautiful, sunny, warm day. I'm sure that many families were able to reduce their clutter and pocket some change. It's a big event here. Afterward, a local Mennonite church allowed people to bring their leftovers to them. The residual "stuff" was then sold at a rummage sale yesterday and today, as a fundraiser for a scholarship that the church provides to local HS graduates in memory of a beloved church member. Today, my partner and I went to that rummage sale. I was blown away by the amount of stuff. I thought immediately of this thread. I also watched people pack their paper bags full, for a mere $3. I kept thinking of how much of these things were just unnecessary, many of them manufactured as impulse purchases, luxuries, or an attempt to cash in on some current fad. As we walked around the tables, workers would pull more stuff out and set it on the tables. I perused the same 3 aisles of tables, at least 3 times, and new items were on display each time. The amount of clothing was overwhelming, and I didn't even bother looking there. I also thought about what will become of the "residuals" from that rummage sale. The sponsors are doing it again next week, and it seems that there will be more items that were not out today. I'm glad that this is a successful fundraiser for them. I'm sad that our society produces so much stuff that eventually becomes waste.
__________________
Tolerate one another, just as I have tolerated you.- Jesus Christ?
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#24
08-11-2007, 04:12 PM
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We Americans take our abundance so much for granted. One of the things I love about the Mennonites is there commitment to peace and to simplicity. They are one of the few denominations that understands the relationship between materialism and violence. Since so many new folks have joined since this particular piece was posted, I think I'll put it up again, because the statistics are really staggering. Quote:
We Americans live with this abundance because others are being oppressed. Until this desparity is overcome there can be no peace. Gandhi said it all when he said there is enough for everyone's NEED, but not for everyones greed. For more information on simple living, try googling simple living and you'll find all sorts of wonderful websites. kara
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#26
08-18-2007, 02:25 AM
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Steve, I understand where you're coming from and I feel the same way.
To address more of what both of you are talking about... Everytime I'm told that my life isn't wonderful and that I'm poor next to some people... I feel sick. I feel sick just thinking that some people really do walk around thinking of what they have and not what they have to give. If 59% of the world's wealth was in the hands of six, they would more likely then not, have enough wealth to secure the future of the other 94 and themselves. If 18 were without proper water, we would learn to share what we had. If 14 could not read we could sit and teach them one by one. We could educate the masses, feed the hungry, clothe the cold, we could make this world a wonderful place if things could be viewed this way. If everyone just did what they could to help those in need, these problems could be fixed. But how many people even think of leaving the "American Lifestyle" (as it's probably best known), to help someone else. Would you live in a smaller house? Would you never go out to eat or go to the movies, if you realized that really, it could save the life of one or more people? We have to be reminded of these things (or at least I do). Because I read this, begin to think about... ramble on forever... but in the end, I feel like there is only one goal in life worth reaching. Help others, save someones life... even if you were able to bring one person with no food and education and bring them to a point where they could support a family of their own.... you would've accomplished something huge.  (alright, enough rambling from me... sorry about that)
__________________
"What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?"
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#27
08-18-2007, 11:16 PM
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#28
08-18-2007, 11:43 PM
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Thanks, it's nice to hear!
__________________
"What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?"
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#29
08-19-2007, 07:38 AM
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We could
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With just the money spent of the Iraqi war we could provide drugs for all those suffering from AIDS in the third world. By just removing crop subsidies we could double the price poor farmers in Africa get for their crops. We could easily provide help for refugess in Chad that have fled from the conflict in Darfur. We could help Iraqi refugees in Jordan who have fled from the war we created. We could use our nation's wealth and power to help those less fortunate. However we use it to secure our own power and aquire more wealth for ourselves. We are a nation that has been given much; I mourn over how little we do for others. However, each of us individually still can do our part, even if our national government does not. Quote:
Tu Amigo, Pablo
__________________
For I am convinced that neither life nor death...neither the present nor the future nor anything in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39 Last edited by Pablo Rafael; 08-19-2007 at 06:37 PM. Reason: spelling
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#30
08-19-2007, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?"
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#31
08-19-2007, 06:22 PM
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The initial publication of this goes back to the 1990s and didn't include the gay factor, this updated one did. kara
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#32
08-21-2007, 09:49 PM
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This is a very interesting thread (and article!), and one that touches on a subject that gets a lot of discussion from me, my parents, and several of my closest friends.
My parents and I have severely downsized our living spaces in the last few years - we both live in travel trailers (RV's, kinda) full-time. Mine's older and smaller than theirs... mainly 'cause it's their old one. *laugh* The only thing I really miss about living in a bigger apartment? The kitchen. I swear, it's almost impossible to cook in my kitchen. Aside from that, though, a topic of conversation for me lately has been the concept of communism (not Marxism/fascism, for clarification purposes) and trying to decipher how that would work on a wide level. Currently, society as I see it has a very "every man for himself" (forgive the gender-specific articles) mentality. On occasion, you see a banding together of small family units, but even then, survival of the fittest sometimes comes into play. I have young teenaged friends living at home whose parents do not pay for their food or clothing, for example. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to teach kids work ethic, but it strikes me as a further evidence of the breakdown of a caring mentality. In a communistic society, everyone would have their own jobs and responsibilities, and everyone would still be fed. Wasn't that what the disciples and apostles did after Jesus' ascension? Didn't they sell all they had, pool their resources, and use the resulting pool to take care of everyone? There are some people still caring for the "widows and orphans," don't get me wrong, but not nearly enough, especially when compared to people who are using their disproportionate wealth to support their own materialistic addictions (because it DOES become a compulsion) rather than striving to make a REAL difference. And I don't mean to condemn anyone when I say that, but I do mean to point out that simply donating finances to charity out of a sense of obligation, guilt, or as a method to feel good about one's own so-called altruism isn't actually *really* taking care of people. Along with practical items like food and clothing, there is a lot of emotional poverty in the world, too. Living simply doesn't just mean cutting down on material possessions, I don't think. I think it might also have something to do with cutting back on the amount of emotional energy one dedicates to selfishness, and instead learning to genuinely love people, one individual at a time. ...Er, sorry, I kind of went off on a mini-rant there. :blush:
__________________
"I have this terribly archaic notion that art should be about beauty... and passion... and, well, redefining an imperfect world in a perfect way." -- Still Breathing
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#33
08-22-2007, 12:40 AM
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No problem, ranting is common, I think most of us can relate.
I definately understand what you're saying, I really wish that there was a more common understanding of these things. How do people continue to go on about what's wrong in their lives while being completely blind to all the could do to save anothers. Even just for an example, for people who go out to the movies regularly.... not that that's wrong, but if instead you spent that money on helping someone else out, how much of a difference could that make in someone's life.
__________________
"What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?"
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#34
08-22-2007, 11:20 PM
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Jennifer you are so right, we don't recognize the amount of privelege we have, and we almost never consider the possibility of doing without, so that others can have some of the basics that we take for granted. The cost of a movie, these days, could often feed a family of four, with simple basic foods. I wonder how many people take seriously the idea of tithing - giving back 10% of what we have. I'd love to see some discussion on that issue and also which groups people feel drawn to enough to go without. Kara
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#35
08-25-2007, 01:33 PM
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Somehow it seems this question was a show stopper. So let me see if I can ask it another way. There was a time when people gave 10% of their income to their church or other worthy organizations, is this something that people still think is important? Or are there other ways to tithe such as 10% of our time and talents? Does that make the question easier to approach? kara
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#36
08-25-2007, 03:22 PM
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I liked what mjules had to say. Essentially, it starts with where the emotional energy is. The consumer society wants us to be materialistic so it plays on selfishness in order to get us to spend more. There has to be an internal energy shift to not being so interested in that material stuff before behavior is likely to change much.
I have always felt that while each of us has an entitlement to basic needs being met, I've also always felt we have an accompanying responsibility to see that the needs of those around us are met as well, insofar as we are capable of doing so. Since I've always been a low earner, I still don't think of this in financial terms. I think of this in terms of time and energy. Now that my own basic needs are met I have time to give back, which I do by working on volunteer causes. Naturally, I gravitated to the cause that speaks to me the most. For whatever collage of reasons, that cause for me is the LGBT cause, and probably always will be - it always has been. There are other pressing issues - war, torture, hunger - but for whatever reason, I just belong to this one. I try to take whatever actions I can on other important matters and I do make financial donations sometimes, but I also go with my focus. That way, one matter receives 100% attention. I think it should be that way. There are people who give 100% attention to rescuing animals, others to ending war or poverty. We do what we're called. But I also think that as a whole, society does not feel a sense of responsibility for its neighbors. Then there are those who believe a difference should be made but feel overwhelmed and disillusioned about the possibility of making even a small step. Truly though, the small steps are the way to go. We learn on small steps.
__________________
*** Never linger too long with the ignorant, throw stones at their talk. Walk only with the lovers, the mirror of the soul gets rusty when dipped in muddy water. -Rumi
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#37
08-25-2007, 08:05 PM
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Tithing is obsolete
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For one thing, it's an agricultural model. Ten percent of your crops and husbandry. I haven't planted anything in soil for more that 20 years, not even a houseplant. The only animal I have is a cat right now, though we've had dogs before. Somtimes I'm tempted to give the whole cat away.  The other problem with the tithe for me is that it's just another of the Old Testament dos and don'ts which most people pick and choose among. Of course, the insitutional church is very much invested in the concept of tithing and is certainly willing to push a guilt trip onto anyone who doesn't practice it. I find that the people who talk big about tithing (as opposed to the ones who do it quietly) are among the most holier-than-thou people I have ever known. I think the model for giving ought to be God's grace. What we give out of obligation is worthless to our souls. It's what we give freely that lifts us up in God's sight. I think of two principles when I think of charitable giving. The first is that I should set the amount I'm going to give FIRST in my accounting and not LAST. The original idea of tithing is that it's the first gift, not the leftovers. The second principle is that I give out abundance and not out of scarcity. God's abundant love is motive enough for me to give. It's kind of like the pay it forward movement. I have been blessed. Pass it on. Uncle Sam (and some states and municipalities) already exact a legal tithe in the income tax. It's supposed to support, among many other things, the social safety net we as a society erect to keep people from abject poverty. The net seems to have many tears in it and is not always effective. But the tax is deducted before we ever see any of our money. The United Way operates on a similar principle: Convince people to use payroll deductions, so United Way gets its money first. Both approaches create resentment among a lot of people. This is not a political discussion, although it sure could turn into one. We need a contemporary idiom for talking about giving ... and tithing just aint' it, in my opinion.
__________________
BenL --------------- When you can transform the war and violence in yourself, then you can truly begin to help others find peace. Thich Nhat Hanh Last edited by BenL; 08-25-2007 at 08:08 PM. Reason: fix ambiguity
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#38
08-25-2007, 09:49 PM
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I love the concept of "paying it foward." There was a time when my income was so low, I stopped giving, but ultimately I recognized that I needed to find a way to continue to donate what I had. I don't believe any of us is so poor that we can't adjust our budgets so as to give to causes we believe in, and whatever we call it, it seems to me its an important part of our spiritual process. kara
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#39
08-26-2007, 07:25 AM
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tithing isn't a word that is heard much in my church, we prefer to talk about "stewardship." we realize that all we have is given to us by the grace of God and that we need to be good stewards of those gifts. Our giving then becomes a discussion about the best ways to use those gifts, often money, and each family/individual in the church is asked to consider an amount that they can direct to the church's work. Our particular denomination allows offerings to be directed in many different areas, so an appeal for money does not necessarily reflect a desire by someone to build up this local church's coffers. I can recall times when our accounts were heavy on the benevolence and missions, and the general fund (salaries and building maintenance) were low. There was no ethical or legal way to transfer money from one account to the other, AS IT SHOULD BE! I do hear you on the archaic sound of "tithing" 
__________________
Tolerate one another, just as I have tolerated you.- Jesus Christ?
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#40
08-26-2007, 08:20 AM
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An economy of abundance
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Did you ever notice that the people who are trying convince you that you MUST have this car or that you must invest with them so you can have a wonderful retirement are in reality trying to separate you from your money? The demands of honest stewardship recognize that you must be as prudent in your giving as you are in your spending. But give you must. With an open heart, out of the abundance you DO have no matter how little that is in worldy terms, and without an expectation that you will receive anything in return.
__________________
BenL --------------- When you can transform the war and violence in yourself, then you can truly begin to help others find peace. Thich Nhat Hanh
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though I don't know why they would want to!
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