GLBTQ Seminarians and Ordination

[NathanATX]

I went to Perkins Theological Seminary at Southern Methodist University this last weekend and had an amazing time.

I absolutely loved the school. The open-ness and the theological diversity was very intriguing. The campus was beautiful, they have awesome "amenities" since they're part of SMU. And that part of Dallas is fantastic! I visited a nearby friend who has a very cute, very affordable apartment. And I also found a nearby condo for $50k.

I'm still going to check out two more schools, but I feel VERY drawn to SMU.

The clarity & affirmation I experienced had less to do with the school and more with my calling. I just had this powerful sense of my life being on track while I was there.

I'm already talking to local & regional pastors about participating in their servies by being the communion celebrant, singing special music & preaching. I have two possibilities lined up already.

It's kinda weird... I feel like I'm on the right path, it just so happens this path is going up a very high mountain, alongside treacherous cliffs, with no guardrails... I'm wishing I had paid more attention in my "mountain climbing" class.

[NathanATX]

I finally got my application in to Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Keep me in prayer!

Nate

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by revtj

wow schoolboi, you have seen it! I am so glad you have a good mentor. I had good mentoring in seminary, but seminary is not the real world in a lot of ways. I finally had a good mentor in ministry in CPE at Emory. It makes all the difference in the world. I would've given up a few times if i had not had an experienced pastor who could 'get real' about it with me!!

My work has been in the arts, but the matter of mentorship is identical. Without this, there isn't any real learning, just a great deal of posturing.

I went through undergraduate school hungry for a mentor that would make a difference in my life and only found that person after I was out of school and stumbling forward in my career as a singer. It isn't facts that one needs, but real knowledge. And this seems to be only possible when given from person to person in an environment of trust. True. There is the occasional autodidact, but they are the rare individual.

It isn't just the right school that is the important issue here, but also the right professors at that school. This is incredibly important in the arts: it behooves the student to find the best teacher possible. Ones success depends on it. I believe that ministry is no different.

As my mentor told me: "The teacher gives you the tools. It's up to you to use them. In the end, you learn to teach yourself."

[Liberal Crozier]

My dear brothers and sisters in Christ.

Thirty three years have elapsed since I first boarded a plane from Europe - newly ordained priest - to return to North America and specifically Canada, to pursue my sacerdotal vocation.

There were few conflicts in my early life. Certainly, "certainty of vocation" was never an issue. There were uncles and aunts in both the episcopate and in religious orders for both men and women. There is more, but it would reveal more than I am still comfortable or vulnerable to share at this point.

Certainty of vocation speaks to whether or not you believe - through prayer and spiritual exercise - that you were called by Christ to serve His Church. I believe that I have known both the true priest and unfortunately, what I have often termed as " the ecclesiastic mechanic." I was ordained with both types, and as a bishop, tried to avoid ordaining the latter.

There are several 800 pound gorillas in the room....women clergy....gay clergy....same sex marriage for all...for clergy....that it is difficult to avoid them ....especially in a small chapel....let alone a vast cathedral.

Of course, the majority of respondents are gay spiritual pilgrims. Many of you began in fundamentalist Protestant homes, and have experimented with liturgical or sacramental Churches. You have chosen the new heroes who write PSA's that welcome you without reservation. The United Church of Canada, our largest Protestant denomination, has had a surge of membership and seminary applications since we won our struggle here.

Do I understand why Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, or Eastern Orthodoxy would not be choice of cradle or converted men (or women in Anglicanism) to serve our Lord in ministry with a virulent, conflicted, or oppositional hierarchy deciding upon their worthiness to attend their seminaries or to receive ordination? (A moment of silence to express inner anguish).

Yes, I applaud some groups like the UCC who are willing to accept schism as the necessary "sin" in order to allow the Holy Spirit to work His miracles of Truth and Mercy in the world, and especially in the hearts of these men.

Do I believe that the three major Apostolic Succession jurisdictions have bishops who are gay men? Yes, IMHO, I do. Do I believe that some of these men have closeted same-sex relationships- often safely with priests. Yes, I do. I know that the reticence of Church leaders to "out " gay clergy not involved in paedophilic criminality and illness is because many of these men have told their old classmates in the episcopate that they themselves would be outed if they named them.

Do I believe that in fundamentalist and mainline Protestant Churches virulently opposed to same-sex marriage and the whole issue of monogamous homosexual coupling with families- are sometimes led by latent and closeted men and women afraid to investigate the whole issue honestly and intellectually? Yes, I do, IMHO, believe this.

History still teaches that politicians who secretly engage in their normative psychosexuality furtively, and openly engage in governmental homophobia - have been our worst enemies. I truly believe that this is true worldwide, and if Kitty Kelley is to be believed, in the USA especially, now as in the past.

I personally applaud all of you whom wish to join mainline Churches and fight the crusade for theological re-examination, and its catechetical and canonical changes. There are modern-day Galileo's and Copernicus' waiting for you to ascend the pulpit.

IN DILECTIONE CHRISTI,

+THE LIBERAL CROZIER

The chemotherapy is continuing, and yesterday, my tonsure became complete.....with eyebrows on my pillow, and all hair follicles on my body were somewhere in our bed. Thank you for your continued prayers for my family....our little son says that his daddy looks like "Mr.Clean"

[NathanATX]

Rev./Pastor/Fr. Crozier,
I am very touched and a little overwhelmed by your words.

I have always felt called to ministry, but have always had some resistance to the calling... whether from people or ideas that said God couldn't work through a gay person... or resistance from my own insecurities or wanting to be "in control" of my life...

The past few years the call has become more and more insistent. Almost every time I turn around someone is telling me that my encouragement, teaching, or example has impacted their lives. And every day it seems there is someone I'm reaching out to.

I know this is what God has for me... but the journey is difficult. The waiting is disconcerting. The preparation seems bothersome. I feel unsettled and am really anxious to know what my calling is going to look like... what being in full-time ministry will be like...

Thank you for sharing yourself with us. Especially as you go through recovery. You & your family are in my prayers.

Please post as often as you are able.

Peace,
Nathan

[Liberal Crozier]

Nathan -

Good luck. A word of advice. Visit the campus. Most seminaries have weekends whereby serious candidates may join the student body for prayer, reflection, examination, and fellowship. The refectory is also an important place......the chapel and the refectory......food for the soul and body. Mens sana in corpore sano.....

I have had many different titles - from master to mister to reverend mister to reverend father to many different titles that define the role of bishop. Some of these titles are rather antiquated, while others are theologically definitive of the Apostolic role.

But in this forum, dear Nathan, I am your brother.....whose soul is stripped bare and whose body has been challenged with life threatening coronary and oncological disease in a brief period of three years.

Yet, the one word ---the alpha and omega word tonight for me is JOY.....for there is JOY in my heart as I give Him praise for the two persons in this home whom I love with all my being, and pray for a cure for them.

[NathanATX]

Schoolboi... PSR had a booth at MCC's regional conference. I *really* liked what I read about their school.

And... I found out that PSR & Chicago Theological both accept Univ. of Phoenix degrees, while Austin Seminary isn't sure yet. Last night, I finished enrolling in Univ. of Phoenix and will *hopefully* complete my undergrad in one year.

LC... How are you feeling today? One of my pastors, Rev. Dr. Kate Mclennan has leukemia and was recently hospitalized... but she was out of the hospital and preaching this weekend. I've been praying for both of you.

You shared a lot about United Church of Canada's welcome to glbt clergy and how the emigration process would work, but what about MCC churches in Canada? Would it be as easy to emigrate to be an MCC minister? What's the possibility of dual affiliations? I know several people who are ordained/affiliated with both MCC and United Church of Christ here in the States.

One of my favorite things about MCC churches, besides the committment to the glbt community, is the theological diversity. My pastor says it all the time... "it's more important for us to be together than it is for us to be the same" and "we value unity over uniformity," etc. Is that kind of idea supported within the UCCanada?

I guess it's a little early in the game to try and nail down *exactly* what my ministry path will look like... or even where I'll be ministering in five years... I'm just curious.