I need answers to these Heterosexist Questions

[Huggins293]

hello everyone

I am attempting to have dialouge with hetero-bigot who simply does not realilze his heterosexist ways. I answered many of his questions but since I am not gay I can not answer his questions about gay sex. Unfortunately, he accuses me of being gay because I defend gay respect persistently and without apology. Can someon answer this post:

(In reference to I guess after gay anal sex)

OH BOY HUGGINS I HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN, SO LETS TAKE IT ONE AT A TIME, DO YOU PEOPLE USE SPECIAL SOAP AND DOES YOUR BED SHEETS GET MESSY SOME TIMES, DO YOU LIKE THROW THEM OUT OR WHAT I WANNA KNOW. TIME DOES NO PERMIT ME BUT THIS STEAL THE SHOW, I WANNA KNOW IF WHEN YOUR SEXER, LOVER, PARTNER OR WAT-DA-FUCC-EVER BUS A KNUTTS UP IN YOUR ANUS DO YOU SIT OVER A TOILET OR A PAN OR SOMETHING TO DRIP IT OUT OR YOU JUST SIT BACK IN CONTRAST TO A FEMALE AND ENJOY HER MAN SPERMS BEING ABSORB BY HER BODY.

Can someone answer his inquirry? He seems to think I am afriad to answer his questions? I teased him by not responding for a bit and now he is convinced that I believe str8 is right? Pray for some of our heterosexist brothers for they suffer a deep and profound disease.

[BruceChris]

Huggins, I am assuming that this exchange is taking place on a forum or bulletin board, or otherwise online. I myself would be extremely tempted to refuse to respond at all, until he cleans up his spelling, grammar, and overall usage of the English language, a LOT. I would refuse to respond in any way to his assumption that gay sex MUST be orders of magnitude messier than any other sex.

To me it also looks a lot like someone acting very stupid, as a way of implying that YOU are the stupid one. I guess I wouldn't respond to that sort of thing, either.

Perhaps you could fill in a lot more details, but this is beginning to look like something that I probably shouldn't have gotten involved in, in the first place. The more times I read it, the more ignorant and contemptuous it sounds.

BruceChris

[Huggins293]

I apologize Bruce for careless not taking in account the language used. I know many on this board do find many of the words offensive. In some ways I wish many gays and lesbian were unaware at the depth of contempt and ignorance of some heterosexists. I will look at the language and perhaps re-phrase his questions which I frankly to some degree do not understand.

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by BruceChris

Huggins, I am assuming that this exchange is taking place on a forum or bulletin board, or otherwise online. I myself would be extremely tempted to refuse to respond at all, until he cleans up his spelling, grammar, and overall usage of the English language, a LOT. I would refuse to respond in any way to his assumption that gay sex MUST be orders of magnitude messier than any other sex.

To me it also looks a lot like someone acting very stupid, as a way of implying that YOU are the stupid one. I guess I wouldn't respond to that sort of thing, either.

Perhaps you could fill in a lot more details, but this is beginning to look like something that I probably shouldn't have gotten involved in, in the first place. The more times I read it, the more ignorant and contemptuous it sounds.

BruceChris

Bruce I may also add that in Jamaica, we use an informal version of english called patios. So the spelling of certain words in KJV english may differ from that of patios. For instance gwan in patios means go one in King Jame version english. Honestly,right I am not sure if he uses this in this writing because the only thing I can detect in his writing is contempt and I didn't anlyaze it. I'll look into that.

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by BruceChris

Perhaps you could fill in a lot more details, but this is beginning to look like something that I probably shouldn't have gotten involved in, in the first place. The more times I read it, the more ignorant and contemptuous it sounds.

BruceChris

Unfortunately Bruce, these vulgar ignorant attitudes like this are found in the even the most civil and well intentioned heterosexists. I don't see how we can avoid confronted them. When we fail to confront heterosexist ignorance like the one displayed we give them confidence that they have justication for their heteosexists rage when in fact they do not.

Clearly attitudes like this influence the culture that bans gay marriage, adoption and even gay sex.

[BruceChris]

So you're on your own, here. I guess you're pretty much back where you started. Maybe you could get some advice from a sympathetic gay or straight person in Jamaica, that would probably be your best bet. Good luck.

I am sorry that I totally misjudged you, because I did not konw that you are from Jamaica.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Huggins293

hello everyone

I am attempting to have dialouge with hetero-bigot who simply does not realilze his heterosexist ways. I answered many of his questions but since I am not gay I can not answer his questions about gay sex. Unfortunately, he accuses me of being gay because I defend gay respect persistently and without apology. Can someon answer this post:

(In reference to I guess after gay anal sex)

OH BOY HUGGINS I HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN, SO LETS TAKE IT ONE AT A TIME, DO YOU PEOPLE USE SPECIAL SOAP AND DOES YOUR BED SHEETS GET MESSY SOME TIMES, DO YOU LIKE THROW THEM OUT OR WHAT I WANNA KNOW. TIME DOES NO PERMIT ME BUT THIS STEAL THE SHOW, I WANNA KNOW IF WHEN YOUR SEXER, LOVER, PARTNER OR WAT-DA-FUCC-EVER BUS A KNUTTS UP IN YOUR ANUS DO YOU SIT OVER A TOILET OR A PAN OR SOMETHING TO DRIP IT OUT OR YOU JUST SIT BACK IN CONTRAST TO A FEMALE AND ENJOY HER MAN SPERMS BEING ABSORB BY HER BODY.

Can someone answer his inquirry? He seems to think I am afriad to answer his questions? I teased him by not responding for a bit and now he is convinced that I believe str8 is right? Pray for some of our heterosexist brothers for they suffer a deep and profound disease.

Hey Huggins,

He's not asking about gay sex, it's rhetorical. If this is any indication of his feelings on the subject then he defines gay people by gay sex and furthermore by the ugliest things he can imagine it by.

First of all that discounts lesbian sex, so his problem isn't with all gay sex, just between two men.

Secondly it's not even about anal sex between two men, since those same sentiments could be expressed in regard to heterosexual anal sex.

Thirdly, by presenting it in question form it's dishonest. It's nothing but a vieled attempt to express HOW ugly he thinks anal sex between two men is.

Ask him if he's aware that heterosexuals also have anal sex. If he's not then tell him to google it. Then tell him to find which of his heterosexual buddies enjoy anal sex with their "females," and to ask them the EXACT SAME questions, in the EXACT SAME way as he just asked them of you.

Or you could just point me to the site and I'll take care of him myself...

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by Emproph

Hey Huggins,

He's not asking about gay sex, it's rhetorical. If this is any indication of his feelings on the subject then he defines gay people by gay sex and furthermore by the ugliest things he can imagine it by.

I noticed this as well but to prove that I was not at all intimidated by his rhetoric. I promised to answer all of his questions. He had questions that were easy to answer. I doubt he listened.

First of all that discounts lesbian sex, so his problem isn't with all gay sex, just between two men.

He was certian to tell me that he saw lesbain sex also as nastiness. It was probably his philsophical lip service to continue to denounce gay sex. I do not want to trivilize the matter but many jamaican men love imagining women together but there absolute hatred of gay sex, even compells them to deem this immoral in lip service.

Secondly it's not even about anal sex between two men, since those same sentiments could be expressed in regard to heterosexual anal sex.

I expressed this same sentiment to this poster and his supporters(which are most of the board) but they could care less. They desire to find gay sex revolutking and they insist no on can change that view.

Thirdly, by presenting it in question form it's dishonest. It's nothing but a vieled attempt to express HOW ugly he thinks anal sex between two men is.

I concur fully, his intent behind the question is to degrade gay man and objectify their relationship.

Ask him if he's aware that heterosexuals also have anal sex. If he's not then tell him to google it. Then tell him to find which of his heterosexual buddies enjoy anal sex with their "females," and to ask them the EXACT SAME questions, in the EXACT SAME way as he just asked them of you.

I think I did but as usual he ignored the response.

Or you could just point me to the site and I'll take care of him myself...

I sadly say this but I would love to. I say sadly because I do have still some anger toward heterosexist attitudes in my system. I do want to warn you thought that he represents the majority on that board. Although it is hard for me to say, you should address this man with respect. He will of course call you gay which is irrelevant and degrade you but we as people engagint in actvism must take the high road and kill them with kindness.

I will admit that my activsim on the board initially was far to hostile. I reacted to their heterosexist comments and slurs that hit below the belt. I recently learned how to block out their vulgar tactics of degradatio toward me by sticking to the issue.

I would love you to join me in cyber activism on this heavily heterosexist board. Although, the board is not a U.S. board plenty of the sentiments on that board are reflective of American heterosexism. The irony is that the oppressors are blacks who have historically called out white oppression. My country has been a country that called out oppression and injustice and is allowing their flesh to be comfortable in heteorsexism.

It needs a more members from whatever country to be witneess to their immoral attitude toward a group of people.

Thanks Huggs

P.S. The website is

http://www.jamaica-star.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl

Click the sex and the relationship forum and you may find one of my pro-gay threads. However, the moderators wanted to censor me because our heterosexists brothers were getting to agitated and simply could not refrain from responding. I would write a response that paraphrased your sentiment.

In addtion, many posters use a version of broken english that may be at first very hard to understand. I am comfortable with many of the words and will interpret for you.

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by BruceChris

So you're on your own, here. I guess you're pretty much back where you started. Maybe you could get some advice from a sympathetic gay or straight person in Jamaica, that would probably be your best bet. Good luck.

Bruce, you may not be a Jamaican but the much of the anti-gay rhetoric their is the same as in the U.S. I know the patios may be hard to understand but for the most part it is in standard english. I can help you with the translations. If you feel up to cyberactivism on a brutally hostile anti-gay board. I am more than willing to share with you the website

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by Emproph

Or you could just point me to the site and I'll take care of him myself...

On that note, I have to ask you, does an effective cyber activist talk among his own peers for support of an issue or does he demonstrate activism where his view is politically opposed.

I believe a pro-gay cyber activist must confront heterosexism where it is the strongest for where it is the strongest is the influential element of heterosexist policy. I would aggressively and insistently protest heterosexism on this board until the moderators censor me. If the opponents get agitated and continue to respond that increases the attention to the issue. Critics on this board continue to tell me to shut up about pro-gay issues. They were bombarded with them every day but yet they continued to respond with their usually scoffs and insults. It did not phase me and I continued to write pro-gay posts. I see this as a form of civil disobedience in the sense that he sentiment on the board is for me so keep my trap shut about their heterosexism even when they continue to respond. I simply refused to.

I undestand that I will not change them in a year and probably five years from now. But the hope is that someday something I wrote and even those few who defended me wrote will be triggerd in their experience and redeem them from their heterosexist sickness. In jamaica heterosexsim is just that a sickness and distortion.

Thanks Huggs.

[Emproph]

Yeah, it sounds like you're on the same page as me from all those responses to my post. And by the way (btw), I love it when people break it down like that. I do that a lot.
~

Originally Posted by Huggins293

I sadly say this but I would love to. I say sadly because I do have still some anger toward heterosexist attitudes in my system. I do want to warn you thought that he represents the majority on that board. Although it is hard for me to say, you should address this man with respect. He will of course call you gay which is irrelevant and degrade you but we as people engagint in actvism must take the high road and kill them with kindness.

I will admit that my activsim on the board initially was far to hostile. I reacted to their heterosexist comments and slurs that hit below the belt. I recently learned how to block out their vulgar tactics of degradatio toward me by sticking to the issue.

Again, same page. I may and probably would be more aggressive than you, but the whole point of SoulForce is to be that way, 'kill them with kindness.' I have much learning to do on that front but it remains the goal.

I would love you to join me in cyber activism on this heavily heterosexist board. Although, the board is not a U.S. board plenty of the sentiments on that board are reflective of American heterosexism. The irony is that the oppressors are blacks who have historically called out white oppression. My country has been a country that called out oppression and injustice and is allowing their flesh to be comfortable in heteorsexism.

Yes, same in this country. That's why the Religious right has made it a point to try and convince the public that being gay isn't something you're born with, it's just a "perverted sexual behavior."

What I'd like to know though is, are you guys getting it from the same sources as here? Like Focus on the Family and the like?

Click the sex and the relationship forum and you may find one of my pro-gay threads. However, the moderators wanted to censor me because our heterosexists brothers were getting to agitated and simply could not refrain from responding. I would write a response that paraphrased your sentiment.

I'll check out that site when I get a chance. Meanwhile check out where I and a few others here have been doing battle lately. It's mean and we get the same exact garbage that you've described, but there are allies too. I like it because for being a Christian web site there are forums for many different religions and opposing views. Many atheists post there too. I think it stands for Christian Apologetics Resource Ministry. I post the link at the bottom.

In addtion, many posters use a version of broken english that may be at first very hard to understand. I am comfortable with many of the words and will interpret for you.

Good to know.

Originally Posted by Huggins293

On that note, I have to ask you, does an effective cyber activist talk among his own peers for support of an issue or does he demonstrate activism where his view is politically opposed.

I think that was to BruceChris, but I'd like to field it.

Both! - At least for me. Some are more suited to one OR the other, but I find it most effective to come back here to recharge. SoulForce is my home. Preaching and communing with the choir reminds me that I am NOT alone in this, and when I get energized enough with that understanding I go back out and spread that same happy happy joy joy, except do it weapon style. And by weapon style I mean truth and creative style. -hopefully learning better each time to be more patient and more respectful with my responses to adversity. And if not then to at least be creative as opposed to destructive.

I believe a pro-gay cyber activist must confront heterosexism where it is the strongest for where it is the strongest is the influential element of heterosexist policy. I would aggressively and insistently protest heterosexism on this board until the moderators censor me. If the opponents get agitated and continue to respond that increases the attention to the issue. Critics on this board continue to tell me to shut up about pro-gay issues. They were bombarded with them every day but yet they continued to respond with their usually scoffs and insults. It did not phase me and I continued to write pro-gay posts. I see this as a form of civil disobedience in the sense that he sentiment on the board is for me so keep my trap shut about their heterosexism even when they continue to respond. I simply refused to.

I am SO with you...

I undestand that I will not change them in a year and probably five years from now. But the hope is that someday something I wrote and even those few who defended me wrote will be triggerd in their experience and redeem them from their heterosexist sickness. In jamaica heterosexsim is just that a sickness and distortion.

It's the same here. I've learned a few Big things lately, beyond the standard "confront the lies with truth" mantra.

One of them is to realize that the goal isn't necessarily to affect the person we're talking with, but with all those who are reading it from afar but don't post - lurkers as we call them, though I don't necessarily like that term. That's also another incentive for me to try and be on my best behavior. I often fail miserably but I'm trying to at least fail 'softer' each time.

You may not affect the person you're speaking with, but the person reading what you're saying might be a homosexual person who'se in the closet and it might make them think twice about hating themselves as much as everyone says they should.

Also, you're/we're doing it for those who WOULD and WANT to take the same position as us but don't have the courage to do so yet because they don't know how to argue effectively yet. From Bible quotes to fake studies to it's just plain old "unnatural." Those people just need to hear WHAT to say.

A big part of that point is that, if you know that your goal is not necessarily to convince the person you're talking with, then it takes the expectation/dissapointment factor out of the results. Which of course leaves more room to be compassionate/patient/respectful or as we say here: non-violent.

Anyway, come join us at carm and see how it's done. Everything you described goes on there.

We've all got the same monikers too -at least those of us that I'm "aware" of that also hang out there. So there's me, Emproph, and awediot and NateBlack.

Here's the main page, and I think you have to sign up before reading the forums.

http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/index.php

And then here's where they relegate all the "homosexuality" threads, Society Topics and Ethical:

http://www.christiandiscussionforums...splay.php?f=90

I'll talk with you later, I've got some work to do.

[HarmlessEccentric]

I don't think I'd answer those questions at all. He's clearly trying to be insulting, and you don't have to let him define the terms of your conversation.

I doubt I'd be engaging him at all, but if I did, I'd say something like,

"Wow, you seem to have spent a lot of time thinking about gay sex. I suppose straight sex would seem pretty gross, too, if you thought about it in those terms. But back to what I was saying before..."

[BruceChris]

Huggins, I would like to reinforce what Emphroph and Harmless Ex were saying. You cannot and will not change a serious homophobe. They are angry, and they need somebody to be angry at. By arguing with them, you are simply giving them something to do, someone to be angry at. In effect, encouraging them. There is only limited benefit in offering polite and reasonable sounding responses, in the hope that a 'lurker' may be positively affected.

One of them is to realize that the goal isn't necessarily to affect the person we're talking with, but with all those who are reading it from afar but don't post - lurkers as we call them, though I don't necessarily like that term. That's also another incentive for me to try and be on my best behavior. I often fail miserably but I'm trying to at least fail 'softer' each time.

You may not affect the person you're speaking with, but the person reading what you're saying might be a homosexual person who's in the closet and it might make them think twice about hating themselves as much as everyone says they should.

I am strongly tempted to agree with the essentials of what Emphroph said the first time: That they are not there to ask a meaningful question, they are there to abuse you. So mostly, you are wasting your time, and you are allowing THEM to waste YOUR time.

I believe that going to their site is am almost total waste of time, and that your time would be much better spent among much more supportive people, or trying to present a reasonable model of a healthy gay man to the other people in your life. Spend your time on more reasonable sites.

I might ask, how many people are you out to? How many straight people? Can you ask some of them how they see you, and how you could be a more positive person in their eyes? How many people that you are friends with, that you are not out to, would you like to be, and who do you think might be the safest person to come out to next?

Work with people that you CAN make friends with, and can have a positive impact on.

And oh, yeah. The people who most loudly say that WE obsess about sex, almost always obsess about it a lot more that we ever do. But you can't tell THEM that.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Emproph]

Yeah but BruceChris I like that. I enjoy it, I think it's fun. Probably because I'm good at it.

Some people aren't meant for it, perhaps most. I didn't mean to give the impression that I was encouraging it, but I got the impression huggins was already passionate about directly countering such resistence.

Not with people like the guy above necessarily. Outside of just ignoring that guy I think HarmlessEccentric's response was about as sufficient and appropriate a response that could be given.

"Wow, you seem to have spent a lot of time thinking about gay sex. I suppose straight sex would seem pretty gross, too, if you thought about it in those terms. But back to what I was saying before..."

It's not just about others either, I need to know. I'm judging them in ways that I shouldn't be and once in awhile I can at least get through to someone to find out what they really mean. That helps me get over myself. Ironically it's my own pride in some of those circles that sometimes fosters the undoing of it.

I don't think that's to justify my pride per se... Ok fine, maybe it is. In fact who am I kidding?

'Hi my name's Patrick, I'm an egomaniac.'

But Marge, maybe if I'm part of that angry mob I can help steer it in a more meaningful direction...

~Homer Simpson~

I'm not just learning how to argue gay issues, I'm learning thinking skills. Maybe I should have clarified that better. I'm just saying I think there's a place for people like me... And-I've-found-it...

Kind of like stand-up, I had to learn how to do it because it was so scary. Utilizing my pride to face my fears (by forcing them to face theirs), what could be sweeter?

It's win-win. (< see I'm sounding like a 'Christian' already)

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by Emproph

Yeah, it sounds like you're on the same page as me from all those responses to my post. And by the way (btw), I love it when people break it down like that. I do that a lot.
~
Again, same page. I may and probably would be more aggressive than you, but the whole point of SoulForce is to be that way, 'kill them with kindness.' I have much learning to do on that front but it remains the goal.

Yes, same in this country. That's why the Religious right has made it a point to try and convince the public that being gay isn't something you're born with, it's just a "perverted sexual behavior."

What I'd like to know though is, are you guys getting it from the same sources as here? Like Focus on the Family and the like?


I'll check out that site when I get a chance. Meanwhile check out where I and a few others here have been doing battle lately. It's mean and we get the same exact garbage that you've described, but there are allies too. I like it because for being a Christian web site there are forums for many different religions and opposing views. Many atheists post there too. I think it stands for Christian Apologetics Resource Ministry. I post the link at the bottom.

Good to know.

I think that was to BruceChris, but I'd like to field it.

Both! - At least for me. Some are more suited to one OR the other, but I find it most effective to come back here to recharge. SoulForce is my home. Preaching and communing with the choir reminds me that I am NOT alone in this, and when I get energized enough with that understanding I go back out and spread that same happy happy joy joy, except do it weapon style. And by weapon style I mean truth and creative style. -hopefully learning better each time to be more patient and more respectful with my responses to adversity. And if not then to at least be creative as opposed to destructive.


I am SO with you...


It's the same here. I've learned a few Big things lately, beyond the standard "confront the lies with truth" mantra.

One of them is to realize that the goal isn't necessarily to affect the person we're talking with, but with all those who are reading it from afar but don't post - lurkers as we call them, though I don't necessarily like that term. That's also another incentive for me to try and be on my best behavior. I often fail miserably but I'm trying to at least fail 'softer' each time.

You may not affect the person you're speaking with, but the person reading what you're saying might be a homosexual person who'se in the closet and it might make them think twice about hating themselves as much as everyone says they should.

Also, you're/we're doing it for those who WOULD and WANT to take the same position as us but don't have the courage to do so yet because they don't know how to argue effectively yet. From Bible quotes to fake studies to it's just plain old "unnatural." Those people just need to hear WHAT to say.

A big part of that point is that, if you know that your goal is not necessarily to convince the person you're talking with, then it takes the expectation/dissapointment factor out of the results. Which of course leaves more room to be compassionate/patient/respectful or as we say here: non-violent.

Anyway, come join us at carm and see how it's done. Everything you described goes on there.

We've all got the same monikers too -at least those of us that I'm "aware" of that also hang out there. So there's me, Emproph, and awediot and NateBlack.

Here's the main page, and I think you have to sign up before reading the forums.

http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/index.php

And then here's where they relegate all the "homosexuality" threads, Society Topics and Ethical:

http://www.christiandiscussionforums...splay.php?f=90

I'll talk with you later, I've got some work to do.

I'd be honest dude, I got a headache and part that headache is from ignorant people that I descended from. At times I am tempted to agree with Bruce, I am wasting my time. But if heterosexism even cyber heterosexism is not confronted, who will challenge it? Are we just supposed to wait for it to go away? I do sympathize and truly understand where bruce is coming from when he states these guys do not want dialouge they want debate. That is why I should not debate them in the sense of confronting and conducting violence upon their viewpoints with my writings. I should compassionately plead for them to change their view.

Why I do not stop writing on these boards is to make a point that hostile heterosexism does not stop pro-gay activists writing on a heterosexist board. there are to things that stop it:

1. Non response from objectors who are the vast majority on the board.
2. Moderators who delete threads.

When either of these two conditions arise. My actvism ceases. My peaceful disobedience to not to submit to the demands of my hateful "brothers" (which thye should be but I am not feeling it right now)is the implicit message that heterosexist comments and attitudes will be confronted with kindness and love. At the very least, if or when I become totally cenesored proponents of heterosexism will never utter a thought of it on the sex and relationship forum. Secondly, like you said gays who have destroyed by low-self esteem who coincidentally read my message will hopeflully reverse their self esteem. Thirdly, those who quietely and silently are disturbed by the culture of heterosexism in Jamiaca and worldwide, will be inspired to at least to protest in writing against it. And lastly, the perperators and supporters of heterosexism will someday after their pride and defenses are lowered will reflect and discover what a tragic mistake they made indoctinating their souls to the sickness of heterosupremacy.

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by Huggins293

I'd be honest dude, I got a headache and part that headache is from ignorant people that I descended from. At times I am tempted to agree with Bruce, I am wasting my time. But if heterosexism even cyber heterosexism is not confronted, who will challenge it? Are we just supposed to wait for it to go away? I do sympathize and truly understand where bruce is coming from when he states these guys do not want dialouge they want debate. That is why I should not debate them in the sense of confronting and conducting violence upon their viewpoints with my writings. I should compassionately plead for them to change their view.

Why I do not stop writing on these boards is to make a point that hostile heterosexism does not stop pro-gay activists writing on a heterosexist board. there are to things that stop it:

1. NO REPLIES from objectors who are the vast majority on the board.
2. Moderators who delete threads.

When either of these two conditions arise. My actvism ceases. My peaceful disobedience to not to submit to the demands of my hateful "brothers" (which thye should be but I am not feeling it right now)is the implicit message that heterosexist comments and attitudes will be confronted with kindness and love. At the very least, if or when I become totally cenesored proponents of heterosexism will never utter a thought of it on the sex and relationship forum. Secondly, like you said gays who have destroyed by low-self esteem who coincidentally read my message will hopeflully reverse their self esteem. Thirdly, those who quietely and silently are disturbed by the culture of heterosexism in Jamiaca and worldwide, will be inspired to at least to protest in writing against it. And lastly, the perperators and supporters of heterosexism will someday after their pride and defenses are lowered will reflect and discover what a tragic mistake they made indoctinating their souls to the sickness of heterosupremacy.

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj jjjjjjj

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by BruceChris

Huggins They are angry, and they need somebody to be angry at. By arguing with them, you are simply giving them something to do, someone to be angry at. In effect, encouraging them. There is only limited benefit in offering polite and reasonable sounding responses, in the hope that a 'lurker' may be positively affected.

With all due repect Bruce, I truly respect the intent of what you are saying but I disagree with to a decent degree. You can influence the most ardent, most vicious homphobe and racists. Pleny of ex-racists were ardent racists during civil rights. You always have hope to change them. Heterosexism is a disease that can be cured. Many will not be saved from their heterosexism but many will and some of them the most ardent heterosexist could be one of our most compassionate allies. We

I believe that going to their site is am almost total waste of time, and

If my intent were to change them in one day or one year, I could see your point. But the essence of my cbyer activism is the refusal to allow heterosexists to influence my silencing my posts. My refusla to oblige to their demands to chut up is a form of cultural disobedience. I feel I should try to recruit more activist on that board to not only kindly indentify the eveil of heterosexism but to have as a support group to critque and discuss the hostility/attitudes that oppress them. So in that case, supportive peoople would be benifical.

that your time would be much better spent among much more supportive people, or trying to present a reasonable model of a healthy gay man to the other people in your life. Spend your time on more reasonable sites.

I do agree that this should be included in my actvism. My activsim should not be just protest but support. I would like to know of any major gay support groups in washington DC that a straight man can join. I have been looking on the INternet and have been unsuccesful.

I might ask, how many people are you out to? How many straight people? Can you ask some of them how they see you, and how you could be a more positive person in their eyes? How many people that you are friends with, that you are not out to, would you like to be, and who do you think might be the safest person to come out to next?

I am not gay. I am a striaght pro-gay activiist. But I would love to be friends with gay teen-agers who have low self esteem and need to be lifted up.

Work with people that you CAN make friends with, and can have a positive impact on.

The people who most loudly say that WE obsess about sex, almost always obsess about it a lot more that we ever do. But you can't tell THEM that.[/quote}

The poster of that garbage was a honry hetero. But he's str8 sothat is okay. Remeber in jamaica "gays no way." Sad but true.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Huggins293

Why I do not stop writing on these boards is to make a point that hostile heterosexism does not stop pro-gay activists writing on a heterosexist board. there are to things that stop it:

1. Non response from objectors who are the vast majority on the board.
2. Moderators who delete threads.

When either of these two conditions arise. My actvism ceases. My peaceful disobedience to not to submit to the demands of my hateful "brothers" (which thye should be but I am not feeling it right now)is the implicit message that heterosexist comments and attitudes will be confronted with kindness and love. At the very least, if or when I become totally cenesored proponents of heterosexism will never utter a thought of it on the sex and relationship forum. Secondly, like you said gays who have destroyed by low-self esteem who coincidentally read my message will hopeflully reverse their self esteem. Thirdly, those who quietely and silently are disturbed by the culture of heterosexism in Jamiaca and worldwide, will be inspired to at least to protest in writing against it. And lastly, the perperators and supporters of heterosexism will someday after their pride and defenses are lowered will reflect and discover what a tragic mistake they made indoctinating their souls to the sickness of heterosupremacy.

I think that says it well.

-Where lies are told, they must be confronted.
-Where misinformation is spread, it must be corrected.
-Where people are being attacked for who they are, they must be defended.

And lastly, the perperators and supporters of heterosexism will someday after their pride and defenses are lowered will reflect and discover what a tragic mistake they made indoctinating their souls to the sickness of heterosupremacy.

From Wayne Besen’s “Anything But Straight.” Among other examples he mentions:

“Jerry Falwell... also reversed his vocal support for racial segregation as public sentiment turned against his discriminatory position.

In all of these cases, the Bible was used to justify discrimination...

As society increasingly accepts lesbian and gay Americans, there will be less of a market for gay conversion.”

-Conversion "therapy" now being used of course as a means to legitimize their discrimination.

~~

The generations coming up will make the difference. I think that challenging those with bigoted views at least provides an example for youth and others of the critical thinking necessary to confront authority when need be.

...And in this case - it need be.

[Huggins293]

[QUOTE=HarmlessEccentric;13684]I don't think I'd answer those questions at all. He's clearly trying to be insulting, and you don't have to let him define the terms of your conversation.[Quote]

I truly do empahtize with your sentiment. I truly do, but attitudes such as these are the soul behind ban on gay marriage, ban on gay adoption, and the cultrual degradation of gay sex. If there is anyone we should be addressing it is people like him. Sure our opponents are often more civil and mature in their respectful opposition but the nakedness of heterosexist ideology is within responses like this.

[Huggins293]

Originally Posted by Emproph

I'll check out that site when I get a chance. Meanwhile check out where I and a few others here have been doing battle lately. It's mean and we get the same exact garbage that you've described, but there are allies too. I like it because for being a Christian web site there are forums for many different religions and opposing views. Many atheists post there too. I think it stands for Christian Apologetics Resource Ministry. I post the link at the bottom.

Before I forget, I did check out your website but I want to know what threads you are particpating in so we can team up. Also, bro or sister, please, please help promote the idea of cyberactivism in the manner you, I and others have conducted it. Below is a thread of mine that says it all:

As Martin Luther King combated racism where it was the strongest, I feel that as activists we need to publicly object to heterosexism on boards where it is the strongest. Simply preaching among those who embrace your message will not influence a culture that inspires laws that culturally oppress a group of people.

Please join the fight to protest boards that are infected and dominated by hetero-supremacy. Let’s be 100% to kindly exposing the lies, narrow mindedness, and hypocrisy in the very justifications of heterosexism.

Our aims of civil protest are to:

1. Repeatedly expose the unfairness, un-objectivity and written justifications of heterosexism.
2. To be committed to practice respect and literary pacifism in our protest, no matter how belligerent, hateful, and contemptuous the reaction to our protest is. Even if the objectors react in hostility to our words convicting heterosexism, we will continue to be respectful and non-attacking in our responses. We may fail at this aim at times but our commitment will remain.
3. Purposely disobey the demand to self impose censorship on our message of truth because it disturbs objectors.
4. Establish within heterosexist boards a micro-atmosphere that is supportive of those who have been abused, degraded and disowned. (Note: Some gays probably have noticed many heterosexist posts and feel powerless against it.)
5. Establish and sustain a literary presence of opposition to heterosexists culture in hope that even the most vocal and passionate heterosexist will someday realize their spiritual violence and be re-deemed.

When we expose the corruption in hetero-sexism, then we eliminate the reality of laws that support and celebrate the spirit of hetero-supremacy. In my future posts, I will point out message boards that foster and nurture heterosexism, I plead with you to join others in witnessing to the truth and confronting the lies, hypocrisy, distortion said by even the most loving and well intentioned supporters.