Diagnosis and compassion

[dewdrop_world]

Something has been on my mind that I haven't taken the time to write down until now.

I see a number of threads posted in various sections of this forum that go in the general direction of, for lack of a better word, diagnosing conservative Christianity. Much of the writing has been insightful, and showed me aspects of the current malaise with in Christianity that I hadn't noted before -- things I was starting to grasp intuitively but which didn't crystallize until I read certain ideas here. Much to learn from them, I think.

But I also get the sense at times that we are dissecting conservative Christians' souls and minds in vivo, and there is very little that is nonviolent about that. It trends a bit toward feelings of having a superior understanding, of separateness (they are not like us, and we are not like them), and of a bit of contempt too.

To me, one way to state the central challenge of nonviolence is to ask myself the question:

When can I see Pat Robertson not as "Pat Robertson," but as a suffering human being like me?

When can I see Fred Phelps not as "Fred Phelps," but as a suffering human being like me?

And the follow-up question: if I cannot now see them as people like me, what needs to change in myself so that I can approach them and similar people in the spirit of connection and compassion?

Thich Nhat Hanh boils down the essence of compassion into a very simple sentence: love is understanding. Without understanding of the fundamental connectedness of all beings, love is not really love. It might look like love, but it is compromised in some ways. And, without love, understanding is not really understanding.

I worry that some of the discourse here stops with a rather clinical understanding of conservative Christianity. But when we have a clear, logically organized picture of all the neuroses and delusions at play, have we really come to understand our brothers and sisters?

Buddhism also posits that pity is one of the near enemies of compassion -- a state of mind that we might believe is compassionate, but which corrupts the compassion with a feeling of self satisfaction, if not self congratulation. It's called a "near enemy" because we might think we have arrived at a state of compassion, when we're really just on a dead end street.

So I'm quite a bit uneasy with all this. I'm uneasy when we snipe at them. (Criticism is one thing; snark is something else entirely.) I'm uneasy when Blossom's name is exploited in the title of a thread... "to make a point"... would any of us not be insulted to see our own names exploited in the same way?

Psychological and sociopolitical analyses are fine, but what are we doing to start to love them as they are? As impossible as that sounds... but doesn't Christianity (or any faith, really) demand nothing less?

James

[marutidas]

I know I have been of the Disecting ones.
Usually more peaceful than I have been.

Maybe its where I live that is getting to me.
I don't to just be myself alot of the time, most of it having to with my own safety.
So this place had become a place where I could scream about it, and for that I am sorry.

I need to remind myself of of the truth of non-violence really means.

If the internal enemy of hatred is not tamed,
When one tries to tame external enemies, they increase.
Therefore it is the practice of the wise to tame themselves
By means of the forces of Love and Compassion.
--Bodhisattva Tokmay Sangpo
(the Buddha of Compassion)

[BruceChris]

When I post here I freely admit that when I see a need, I try to reach out in love and compassion, periodically I just express frustration, and now and then just drop in a bad joke. Sure, I'm human, and I do my best to distinguish between just letting off steam, and actually doing something that might hurt someone else. And I'm not perfect, but I'm getting better!

I do not always know the difference between pity and compassion. Maybe pity is a necessary step between indifference or righteousness, and compassion. Pity beats the hell out of righteous judgementalism in my book, any day. Even if it is only a first step, for many of us, it is still a necessary step. Is it possible that pity, coupled with a sufficient amount of time and humility, can lead us to compassion?

Thoughts?

P&L, BC

[dewdrop_world]

Maybe I spoke too harshly!

I really meant it as a proposition, or challenge, or intention or aspiration, certainly not something that everyone should be expected to live up to, right this second. Who posted recently that we don't do nonviolence and order to change others -- we do it to change ourselves? What I'm trying to say is another way of saying the same thing.

It's something that's been on my mind for a long time and my experience on the umc.org forums was a very strong catalyst, turning some inklings that had been brewing for some time into the beginning of a real transformation.

Not much time to go in depth tonight, but a couple of other elements that come to mind that I didn't think of yesterday.

Forgiveness: they hurt us, sometimes unknowingly, sometimes with full awareness of what they are doing. Forget about forgiving them for their benefit -- it's toxic to US to remain so angry at them that we can't see anything but the anger. Forgiveness doesn't mean acquiescence; but it does mean letting go of their hold on us.

It's easy to define oneself in opposition to something or someone else -- "I am worthy because I am not like THAT." There is also "I am worthy because I am like THIS." But the journey is to get to "I am worthy"... then to "I am [in God]"... then to "" (where there is no need to conceptualize any of it). Then we are free and they can no longer control or hurt us.

Absence of fear: because of past hurts, we are afraid of confronting their hostility. I know, at least for myself, that debating at umc.org put me face to face with some pretty basic fears. It was finally when one of them all but called me a child of the devil that it hit me in the head -- this is the endpoint of all the fear and "righteous anger." That was transforming, and strengthened my resolve not to participate any more in bringing that kind of energy into the world.

Now, am I always successful? No way... most often when I'm posting something quickly that I read and adding a very brief comment. The sarcasm factor goes up then. I have to watch it myself.

I guess what I'm saying is, we have to balance the analysis with cultivating forgiveness and compassion. Compassion is a basic part of us but it needs to be nourished, and we haven't been doing that on this forum as much as I would like to see.

James

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by dewdrop_world

So I'm quite a bit uneasy with all this. I'm uneasy when we snipe at them. (Criticism is one thing; snark is something else entirely.) I'm uneasy when Blossom's name is exploited in the title of a thread... "to make a point"... would any of us not be insulted to see our own names exploited in the same way?

Psychological and sociopolitical analyses are fine, but what are we doing to start to love them as they are? As impossible as that sounds... but doesn't Christianity (or any faith, really) demand nothing less?

You bring to mind a remembered injunction by Paramahanasa Yogananda to resist being a 'personality detective'. Have I been that? (I started the thread you mention.) I hope not: my aim in starting the 'Blossom' thread was to deal with the implosion of a failed relationship in a way that would 1) get the readers attention and 2) get serious and well thought responses as to how one actually does the business of conversing and talking with people who are unlike one- where there seems to be no way of bridging the gap. My intent was not to shame or trample her (whoever 'she' really is- forgive me- and it may be beside the point- but can we ever know who we are talking to? Am I the only one who has concerns about representation?), but simply to learn something and not make the same mistakes out of blindess. If that makes me way too analytical, so be it. That is undoubtedly a feature of my personality, not anyone else's. If I have been a detective...well...mea culpa.

I totally agree with you that one of the keys is to understand- that is- love is understanding. My family is very conservative. I get a heck of a lot of practice in learning how to love them ie love is understanding. However, this doesn't make me smarter, wiser or more adept. It doesn't bridge the gap.

I think this takes a great deal of skill- the mind (wisdom) as well as the heart (compassion). As I understand it, each area is distinct and requires its own set of skills. I feel like I need as many 'how to's' as 'why to's.'

Hey. I fully 'get' that no matter how smart or analytical I get or how loving I become, it may not make one iota of difference to the people who matter a great deal to me - ie 'family'. After all, I don't think the methods of nonviolence have anything to do with magical thinking. I do hope, however, to live more peacefully and be able to respond in such a way as to make a difference when that is possible.

And of course, there is the challenge of 'relentless nonviolence'. Nearing 50, I see the need for more of that- that being the 'relentless' part. Personally speaking, I don't find this is to be easy.

[dewdrop_world]

Originally Posted by Daniel

... my aim in starting the 'Blossom' thread was to deal with the implosion of a failed relationship in a way that would 1) get the readers attention and 2) get serious and well thought responses as to how one actually does the business of conversing and talking with people who are unlike one- where there seems to be no way of bridging the gap.

Ah, OK, thanks for the reminder / clarification. The thread went pretty far off track from that into "what's wrong with religious conservatives" -- a common temptation around here.

As for #2, I think in the end it takes practice -- and (for good or ill) it requires making some mistakes. The people I was debating on the umc.org board were very skilled in frustrating me (I won't speak for anyone else)... the aim seems, consciously or unconsciously, to push our buttons so hard that we say something in anger, offering proof that "liberals are intolerant of conservative religion." You can plan for it, you can study the psychology, but I don't think there's a substitute for actually being under fire. Because it is being under attack, and attacks catch us off guard really easily.

I totally agree with you that one of the keys is to understand- that is- love is understanding. My family is very conservative. I get a heck of a lot of practice in learning how to love them ie love is understanding. However, this doesn't make me smarter, wiser or more adept. It doesn't bridge the gap.

Maybe we're not meant to bridge the gap. Maybe it's enough to bear witness to the suffering that is caused by the gap (and that causes the gap)?

Family is a lot tougher than pastors on a BBS, I think. I don't care if anyone on umc.org likes or dislikes me, but if it were my mom or dad, I would feel like a lot more is at stake. For that, I don't have a good answer.

James

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by dewdrop_world

Maybe we're not meant to bridge the gap. Maybe it's enough to bear witness to the suffering that is caused by the gap (and that causes the gap)?

Meant to? That may be so, but I actually hear something else here: I hear the words 'Life is suffering' in the thought above. Of course, that's a very Buddhistic thought, not meant, of course to be depressive, but rather descriptive. I found the following thought elsewhere tonight which echoes this.

Be a lamp unto yourself. You have to explore the philosophy under your own steam. Never take teaching on board without question. Try it on for size and if it doesn’t fit, try something else. The joy of Buddhism is that it requires no belief. It is not a religion where you have to believe things; everything it espouses can be tested by human beings and found to be beneficial or not. It’s about action not faith.

Like the author (http://www.burningturban.com/bt/?page_id=15), this is something I believe I can do (Ha! A bit of wordplay there on my part!).

Maybe the better part of compassion/wisdom is knowing when to leave the 'gap' alone. And when to act. And the difference between them.