Evangelical Leader Steps Down in Alleged Gay Affair

[Steven E. Webster]

Friends,

Here's the link:

http://origin.denverpost.com/news/ci_4588998

Steven E. Webster

[kara speltz]

I have often believed that those who make the most noise against LGBTs do so to avoid looking at their own sins. But at the same time, each time something like this happens, there's still a part of me that is surprised.

When will people understand that it's a full time job, just keeping track of how we fail ourselves to live up to the Sermon on the Mount. Each and every day, I fail at it. What I love so much about Gandhi is he got it. He totally knew that we have the capacity to only change ourselves and the hope that in that pursuit of change within, the world changes with it.

kara

[keltic63]

I immediately thought of Lonnie Latham, and did a quick check here at soulforce; it's been less than a year since the Latham incident.

It's sad and surprising. Of course, at the moment, these are just allegations from what appears to be an unreliable witness. The "escort" is willing to take a polygraph and is doing so tomorrow morning. I suppose the results of that will be telling.

[Dan]

What is everyone's take on the new allegations about Ted Haggard? Is someone making this up to get attention or is Mr. Haggard a neurotic repressed bicurious man with a good dose of gay self-hatred?

[Jamie McDaniel]

I was just about to go see the movie Jesus Camp, in which Ted Haggard appears. Here is a clip of Pastor Haggard talking about homosexuality from the film Jesus Camp on YouTube, though I don't know how long it will be there before they pull it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rSjrBhUIA

Here is an interesting piece from a September 2006 article in the Colorado Springs Independent:

Haggard, for instance, has called on fellow evangelicals to protect the environment, and to work against poverty and racism — priorities that scarcely make a blip on James Dobson's radar screen.

Dobson and Haggard also part ways over same-sex marriage. Focus on the Family strongly opposes any legal recognition of gay couples.

While Haggard supports federal and state constitutional amendments that limit marriage to a man and a woman, he's more measured in his view of domestic partnerships.

"If the state wants to provide people who are in a different type of relationship the same benefits as marriage, that's up to the community," he says. "As a Christian, I would be hesitant to do anything that would deny people medical insurance or the ability to visit their partner in a hospital."

Haggard agrees with Lawrence v. Texas, the 2003 Supreme Court decision that struck down anti-sodomy laws and, unlike Dobson, is generally cautious about codifying religious teaching in law.

"We believe within the church that sexuality should be only between a married man and a woman," Haggard says. "But there are many things that I teach in the church that I would never want integrated into civil law."

[NathanATX]

Thanks for the youtube video, Jamie. I posted it and another one on my blog. http://blog.myspace.com/nathanatx

[BruceChris]

But the closet, combined with conservative Evangelicalism, is extreemly toxic, and for all of us.

Hey, gang, it's 3:30 in the morning, and this is about all I can do for now. Sorry. And when I get up, I'm gonna go on a Get Out The Vote gig about 400 miles from here. (I really oughtta spend my nights sleeping, and not listening to the BBC, and brooding on the state of the world)

Peace, Love, and rarely, the occasional party animal, Bruce Chris

[Daniel]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-d...-_b_33145.html

Based on the scant evidence that's been released, my thinking is this: If you're perpetrating a fictional smear, why not go after a fervently anti-gay figure? There's no shortage to choose from in this state. Why choose a Pastor who, however well known, isn't really as bad as Gary Bauer, James Dobson, Rick Santorum, etc... I mean, if you're going to lie you've got your choice of targets. Why this one?

If this turns out true, it will be hypocricy that brings Pastor Haggard down, won't it?

Strangely enough, I have been reading Richard Dawkin's book (The God Delusion) and recently saw his program on UTube in which Haggard appears (it's a British program that will probably never appear on this side of the Atlantic- too controversial). The latter comes across as a devout creationist. Don't know what to make of all of this yet except to observe that, if true, it will point- yet again- out that sexual energy has a life of it's own: It can't be so easily controlled. It likes to have it's day.

Addendum:

Found this and thought it worth sharing here- it's from http://www.thoughttheater.com/.

If Jesus was to be our example, then I don't understand this thing we now call Christian values. Pastor Haggard may believe that he speaks for God but his actions suggest that he merely fears his own humanity. Further, if the values he espouses exist to demonstrate his faith in the God he knows, then the God he knows must have already seen this element of his humanity that he cannot personally accept...which would mean that any true God has already accepted that which we humans won't and would also prove that the God Haggard purports to represent is not a real God but a God of his own creation designed to serve his flawed view of the human condition.

In the end, we aren't going to solve the conflict in Iraq or the Palestinian issue or same-sex marriage or any number of current issues by attempting to hide our wholly human frailties. The politics of division is merely a symptom of our refusal to focus on our humanity and the need to understand it rather than demonize it. It would be easy to gloat at the demise of Ted Haggard but that would only serve my demons. In my idyllic world, the fall of men like Ted Haggard would illuminate our shared humanity and serve to end the divisions we seem driven to embrace. That's the version of Christian values I could support.

[Jamie McDaniel]

Rev. Ross Parsley, who is serving as Acting Senior Pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church, is stating that Rev. Ted Haggard has now admitted to some of the accusations against him.

www.kcra.com/news/10231452/detail.html

Last night, Haggard told CNN that "I do not know Mike Jones."

CNN Interview

[aftercomingout]

If this really turns out to be true. I wonder what George Bush's comment is about this... They say that Ted Haggard is a very close friend of Bush... Even meeting people from the White House weekly??

[BruceChris]

To utterly shamelessly mix my metaphores,

It is obvious that even one of the 800 pound gorillas of the religious right is far from having the intestinal fortitude to take on the elephant in his own living room.

And we must remember that Ted Haggard not "is", but was a friend of George Bush. (And please, don't say that too loud!) Hypocracy, like homosexuality, is said to be comething that you can CATCH, if you're not careful.

Peace, but not much love here. I need to mellow out. Bruce Chris

[NathanATX]

Video on www.crooksandliars.com

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Haggard-Scandal.wmv

[NathanATX]

Oh brother...

Watch the full interview that News 9 did...
http://www.9news.com/includes/builda...lite-may06.wmv

Watch his eyes when she asks him if he knows the escort...

And a nice little dig on "the homosexual prostitute's" credibility towards the end...

ARARAADGASDGHASASDJASDHHHHHHHHHH....

He denies saying anything that could be perceived as mean, hateful, etc. to gay people!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently, if he's shaking his head "no," then he's lying.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

Oh brother...

Watch his eyes when she asks him if he knows the escort...

ya know.....I watched an interview this morning before I came to work, and when the question about the escort was asked, I thought the same thing.

[NathanATX]

MP3 podcast of the radio show where Mike Jones tells his story about his relationship with Evangelist Ted Haggard.

November 1
"Paul" tells Pete about his relationship with an evangelical minister
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...1101PETE6A.mp3

continued...
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...1101PETE7A.mp3

More on the gay male escort...
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...1101PETE8A.mp3



November 2
Radio show Pete sets the stage for Mike Jones and takes calls...
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...1102PETE6A.mp3

Mike Jones joins Pete and discusses the story...
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...1102PETE7A.mp3

The story continues...
http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/182...1102PETE8A.mp3

[Jamie McDaniel]

Nathan, I'm listening to the 630 KHOW Talk Radio programs you posted. They are truly fascinating (well, in that tragic way of gays in high profile anti-gay positions living lies and truth coming out.)

On the second one under Nov. 2, Mike Jones is sharing how he first found out who Ted Haggard was. He was watching the history channel and suddenly there was "Art". He was so floored, he didn't catch his real name at that time. Mike shares he really struggled with bringing this news forward.

[NathanATX]

I am really impressed by Mike.

[erubre]

Many years ago I began preparation for the ministry at one of the best known conservative/fundamentalist schools and later served on the staff there for a number of years - in the department of Dean of Students. I met and got to know thousands of students and hundreds of staff. I observed them while at the school and at other settings. About eight years of experience there. The sumary of my observation leads me to believe that many people who strike out against homosexuality and shout the loudest against gay interests do so as a shield to deflect from their own hidden homosexual tendencies. It is my opinion that few of those who appear to hold to conservative or fundamentalist " so-called-Christian" views actually seriously believe what they say. Rather, their main concern is for power and money.

[Steven E. Webster]

Here's Andrew's take on this developing story:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/11/confirmed.html

Steven E. Webster

[NathanATX]

Mike Jones failed part of the polygraph. Haggard is "pleased."

more info & video on my blog... http://blog.myspace.com/nathanatx