The Gay Agenda

[rainbowdog]

the other day i was in the Christian bookstore with my mom. i was browsing through the books when i saw this book the Gay Agenda. now keep in mind that this Christian bookstore was anti-gay. the Christian fundamentalists think we have some kinda secret agenda. The only agenda i have is spread the Word of Jesus Christ to those who have been hurt from the fundamental Christians.
another thing that ticks me off is that these fundamentalists say we want special rights just because we are gay. we don't want special rights but equal rights upon which heterosexuals take for granted.


Peace,
Christy

[sammy1980]

Hi Christy,

I don't know what this book talks about, but I think what ultraconservative folks have in mind are some political organizations involving gay and lesbians, something like GLTF and GLAAD. I checked their respective websites and to me, they sounded quite militant. But you have to understand that not all gays and lesbians are like that.

Peace,

Sam

[Joe Brummer]

Sam,
I disagree that GLTF or GLAD are "Militant". Mostly they resort to nonviolent campaigns. If anyone has been militant, and believe me when I say I know much about this, it is the extremist, fundementalist christian organizations who rely on misinformation, flawed science, deception by omission and outright lies to demonize GLBT folks.....I have spent the past year documenting their actions and blogging about them with a number of other great blogger who have help to expose some of the lies.

The militant ones are the gay folks....trust me when I say I have been doing this while and I have never seen such dishonest tactics as I have from groups like Exodus International, Americans for Truth, Focus on the Family and the American Family Association. They know full well what they are doing. The know full well the studies they present are old, flawed, out of date and most refuted and they are still using them to dehumanize us.

The militant need to be us, but we need to by an army of "UNARMED TRUTH"

[sammy1980]

Joe,

By militant, I meant rigid, very loud, not necessarily violent. Maybe, radical. While I browsing though their websites, I saw they want radical changes, like trying to make the whole American society to have positive views about homosexuality. Some of their statements were anti-religion. This is something I am lost about.

About the organizations you listed, the only one I noticed that present flawed science and deception is American Family Association. They constantly state that America is a Christian nation, based on the Bible. This is simply untrue, America was based on the principles of Freemasonry, a theory that recognizes the existence of one God, a higher power, not what fundamentalists perceive. There is actually a book written about who were the founding fathers and what influenced them to create USA called "American Gospel" by John Meachem.
Focus on the Family are into introducing their "Christian values" into American politics and they think that gay marriage and gay adoption will hurt many children. It is important to note, that they never said anything dehumanizing or hateful about individual gay and lesbian people, despite having these opinions. Exodus International is just an organization who claim they can change people's orientation but only at their will. Meaning, they don't force anybody to change.

What's Americans for Truth? I don't know about this one.

[Joe Brummer]

Sam,
If the only group I listed using flawed science in your opinion is the AFA, then I would be happt to show you how Focus on the Family, Exodus and others are all still using Paul Cameron research, Bell and Wienberg Research and misrepresenting other people's research. Especially Dobson and FOTF.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Joe Brummer

Sam,
If the only group I listed using flawed science in your opinion is the AFA, then I would be happy to show you how Focus on the Family, Exodus and others are all still using Paul Cameron research, Bell and Wienberg Research and misrepresenting other people's research. Especially Dobson and FOTF.

I highly support you seriously considering that offer Sam – he knows what he's talking about and he's one of the most non-judgemental understanding people I know.

[Joe Brummer]

Speaking of Dobson, Focus and the Family Research Council.......This just in from Jim Burroway over at Box Turtle Bulletin: I recieved this by email....

FRC and the Maryland Gay Marriage Case
December 3rd, 2006
Jim Burroway
I wish I had found it earlier, but just yesterday I ran across an Amicus Brief that the Family Research Council submitted to the Maryland Court of Appeals for Conaway v. Deane. This case will decide whether marriage equality for gays and lesbians will be granted in that state.

I looked into the brief to see what it said. Most of it consists of legal arguments citing case law, court precidents, and so forth. But one portion of the brief claims that gays and lesbians don’t deserve the right to marry because of what social science says about them. I looked into these claims, and it turns out that the FRC has a problem with the truth when it comes to citing social science. You can read about it in my latest report, The FRC’s Briefs Are Showing.
So, my questions are these: What exactly are the legal obligations of a friend-of-the-court to present their arguments truthfully? And what weight, if any, do courts give to amicus briefs when deciding cases? And what does it say about their arguments when a “values” group throws away the values of truth to become a false witness?

Somehow, I don’t recall reading “the ends justify the means” in Proverbs, or anywhere else in Scriptures for that matter.

[dewdrop_world]

Hi Sammy,

I'm puzzled now... you read The Heterosexual Agenda over at boxturtlebulletin.com... I also set the context for that document by explaining that it uses the same kind of faulty reasoning as Focus on the Family etc. (writing that is supposed to look like science but which willfully violates scientific principles such as random sampling that have been established over many years of sociological and psychological research).

Now you are saying that FoF presents responsible, valid scientific evidence.

I don't understand where is the disconnect. Can you explain your basis for concluding that FoF is presenting valid science? It is, as we have said repeatedly, easy to show where FoF and friends deliberately -- on purpose -- falsify the data.

Why do you continue to believe people who are known to lie, repeatedly and chronically?

James

[dewdrop_world]

Originally Posted by sammy1980

About the organizations you listed, the only one I noticed that present flawed science and deception is American Family Association. They constantly state that America is a Christian nation, based on the Bible. This is simply untrue, America was based on the principles of Freemasonry, a theory that recognizes the existence of one God, a higher power, not what fundamentalists perceive. There is actually a book written about who were the founding fathers and what influenced them to create USA called "American Gospel" by John Meachem.

Faulty reasoning, Sammy. The untruths you cite here are political, not scientific. Joe is talking about science.

Focus on the Family are into introducing their "Christian values" into American politics and they think that gay marriage and gay adoption will hurt many children. It is important to note, that they never said anything dehumanizing or hateful about individual gay and lesbian people, despite having these opinions. Exodus International is just an organization who claim they can change people's orientation but only at their will. Meaning, they don't force anybody to change.

We have already pointed out where these groups DO dehumanize gay people. Too busy at work to repeat myself yet again at the moment... maybe later.

James

[sammy1980]

Hello James and Joe,

Yes, you are right about FRC and Paul Cameron. This guy does promote biases about GLBT people and his methodology is pretty pathetic. What can I say? There are some bad apples in each spectrum of the society. But I hope you guys understand that not all individual conservative Christians share the views and spout gross misinformation like Cameron. I see that James Dobson and Focus on the Family tend to use Cameron's "researches." That is sad.

You know, I have been studying FOF website and this is what I discovered; they stated that Canadian c-250 law would consider any negative said or printed remarks about homosexuality would be considered as a hate speech and could put a person up to 1 year in prison. I researched the law itself on Canadian government website, and I found out that there is a specification stating that no person would be prosecuted if he or she says or prints based on religious beliefs or proven scientific research. So, in reality, this Canadian law is the most objective democratic approach to controversial issues! And Dobson just twisted its meaning in one of his books.

However, I have been visiting Focus on the Family several times (I live in Colorado) and I asked them questions about gays and lesbian people and most of the time they would say that God loves them and they are also created in God's image. Recently, I saw an interview with Tom Minnery, FOF social issues representives, who said that they only want to protect children and they never intend to mischarecterize people with homosexual orientation. Furthermore, Minnery added that they love gays and lesbians.
Do you guys think that they are being hypocrites?

Sam

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by sammy1980

However, I have been visiting Focus on the Family several times (I live in Colorado) and I asked them questions about gays and lesbian people and most of the time they would say that God loves them and they are also created in God's image. Recently, I saw an interview with Tom Minnery, FOF social issues representives, who said that they only want to protect children and they never intend to mischarecterize people with homosexual orientation. Furthermore, Minnery added that they love gays and lesbians.
Do you guys think that they are being hypocrites?

Sam

do you not see the insult there? that statement says that children must be protected from homsexuals. The implication then is that homosexuals are child predators or pedophiles. so by stating it that way they can appear to be "loving" while spreading lies and hatred.

[sammy1980]

I think that Paul Cameron is more likely to spread lies and hatred than James Dobson.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by sammy1980

I think that Paul Cameron is more likely to spread lies and hatred than James Dobson.

you didn't answer my question.

[sammy1980]

Originally Posted by keltic63

you didn't answer my question.

Well, you are right, I see an indirect insult there, for sure.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by sammy1980

Well, you are right, I see an indirect insult there, for sure.

do you see the misinformation?

[Joe Brummer]

Originally Posted by sammy1980

I think that Paul Cameron is more likely to spread lies and hatred than James Dobson.

Paul Cameron creates the lies, Dobson does the work of spreading them.

[sammy1980]

do you see the misinformation?

Of course I do. I discussed more of it on this subject matter in a response titled "To James and Joe." Yes, sometimes Focus on the Family provides misinformation, however I agree with them when they say that the main purpose of their ministry is to help children, not to oppress anybody. You know, not everybody is perfect, everybody makes mistakes, including myself.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by sammy1980

Of course I do. I discussed more of it on this subject matter in a response titled "To James and Joe." Yes, sometimes Focus on the Family provides misinformation, however I agree with them when they say that the main purpose of their ministry is to help children, not to oppress anybody. You know, not everybody is perfect, everybody makes mistakes, including myself.

would you agree that this "mistake" causes some people, conservative christians, and others, to discriminate against homosexuals?
do you think that Dobson, et al, know that they are making this "mistake" and if so, how should they remedy the situation?

[sammy1980]

would you agree that this "mistake" causes some people, conservative christians, and others, to discriminate against homosexuals?
Absolutely, after hearing his speeches on the radio, some people tend to turn blind eyes and deaf ears to gay and lesbian individuals. They don't want to listen them, to their stories, and start assuming that all gays and lesbians are part of some political agenda, whose intention is to destroy society, so they would refuse to communicate with anybody who has homosexual orientation. This is discrimination by turning your back on people. Actually, it is a lot worse, because it is unloving your fellow neighbor, something that Jesus commanded us to do. People tend to forget that gays and lesbians are also people like everybody else, created in God's image.

do you think that Dobson, et al, know that they are making this "mistake" and if so, how should they remedy the situation?

I think he is aware of what is going on. As far as remedying the situation, I saw him doing it several times, by posting on his website, making public appearances on TV, by stating that people should treat gays and lesbians with love, respect, and compassion, by saying that people should not cast them out. Apparently, it is not working very well. Also, I think that Focus on the Family should stop making assumptions, like saying that Canadian C-250 hate speech law would prohibit any criticism of homosexuality. That was a complete baloney crap. And of course, Dobson shouldn't cite researches that contain biases and flawed methodology.

[rainbowdog]

I am reading the book by Mel White "Religion Gone Bad". It shows how these Christian fundamentalists are trying to take over our country. They say that they are trying to bring back Christianity and moral Christian morals. They are waging a war against us. They want to rob us of our basic civil rights. Mel compares them with how the Nazi's were with Jews He said "Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and James Kennedy are fascious like Hitler. Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews just like these Christian fundamentalists wants to exterminate us. Be aware of these and other Fundamentalists because they are out to get us. i think they are the ones who have the agenda and that is take over this country and get rid of us.

Peace,
Christy