Conservative episcopals voting on alignment with a fascist archbishop

[nmwolfboy]

i'm sure this news story flipped Archbishop Williams' mitre around. Wonder how the conservative Episcopalians will react to this?

51 Church of England priests have married their same-sex partners in the past year

[Daniel]

Interesting article!

The figures on clerical civil partnerships come from Changing Attitude, a gay campaigning organisation in the Church of England. The figures show that at least 51 priests, including four lesbians, are now in partnerships. Colin Coward, director of Changing Attitude, said: “Civil partnerships have helped to increase the stability of same-sex relationships and reduced the social exclusion to which lesbian and gay people are often subjected.”

George Curry, chairman of the Church Society, the oldest evangelical organisation in the Church of England, predicted a “crunch moment” at the General Synod.

“Many of these people have defied the guidance. These are men and women who are in active sexual relationships,” he said. “These figures expose the bishops’ failure of leadership.”

Let them 'react'. For that is all they do: react, rather than act as men of the cloth should (guilt word that) in the presence of love.

The perspective of Mr. Curry is rather antiquated, revealing that there are those who still believe that 'they' actually have the right to control how and whom same-sex people should love.

Not!

The time is long past where gay citizens should postpone their happiness and love with others of their kind just to satisfy the misgivings and discomfort of those who cannot comprehend that love.

"As Rose is a Rose is a Rose."

Love is Love is Love.

[novaseeker]

An interesting article. Apparently, the drift of these two parishes away from mainstream Episcopalianism has been long coming, and has to do with a drift towards more fundamentalist beliefs, and members self-selecting to churches that match their own approach to Christianity (rather than basing that on denominations per se).

Episcopal Churches' Breakaway in Va. Evolved Over 30 Years

By Alan Cooperman and Jacqueline L. Salmon
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, January 4, 2007; A01

Parishioners say it happens quietly, unobtrusively: As the sick make their way to the altar, some worshipers begin speaking in tongues. Occasionally, one is "arrested in the spirit," falling unconscious into the arms of a fellow congregant.

The special faith-healing services, held one Sunday night a month at The Falls Church in Fairfax, are a rarity in the Episcopal Church. But members of The Falls Church have long felt at odds with fellow Episcopalians, who they believe have been drifting theologically in an ever more liberal direction.

Shortly before Christmas, The Falls Church and neighboring Truro Church -- which in Colonial times belonged to a single parish -- vented those feelings by voting overwhelmingly to break away from the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church.

The vote reverberated across the country because Truro and The Falls Church are two of the Washington area's most wealthy, historic and prestigious congregations. Their pews are studded on Sunday mornings with such regulars as Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and former CIA director Porter J. Goss.

Moreover, they are reversing the usual relationship between Christians in the United States and the developing world by joining seven other Northern Virginia congregations in a new missionary branch of the Anglican province of Nigeria.

The decision was emotionally wrenching and fraught with legal issues, not least of which is a potential battle with the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia for control of the two congregations' land and buildings, conservatively valued at $25 million.

But the votes appear less sudden or surprising when one realizes that for more than 30 years, Truro and The Falls Church have been part of a "charismatic revival" within mainline Protestantism, said the Rev. Robert W. Prichard, professor of Christianity in America at the Virginia Theological Seminary in Alexandria.

Charismatic, in this case, refers to an ecstatic style of worship that includes speaking in tongues, a stream of unintelligible syllables signifying that the Holy Spirit has entered the worshiper. It is a hallmark of the fast-growing Pentecostal movement but unusual for Episcopalians, who are so thoroughly associated with solemnity and tradition that they are sometimes referred to teasingly as "the frozen chosen."

Prichard, who grew up attending Truro, said many of its members and almost of all its lay leaders spoke in tongues in the 1970s. "There was a kind of coaching in which people who had spoken in tongues would surround a person who was praying for the gift of tongues," he said.

Parishioners say the practice continues today in both congregations, though not at Sunday morning services. Some members have never seen it.

"It's very much a part of our experience and lives," said Truro Rector Martyn Minns, a new bishop in the Nigerian Anglican Church. But "we've grown up. We integrate it rather than focus on it."

Dean Miller, pastor of the young adult ministry at The Falls Church, said some members also have "visions of the Lord" during healing services. "I don't. I'm not gifted that way. But there are people in the community who do," he said.

Prichard contends that charismatic worship is vital to understanding these congregations because it paved the way for them to join the broader evangelical movement, which emphasizes being "born again," having a personal relationship with Jesus and reading the Bible as the wholly true word of God.

Unlike many Episcopal churches nationally, neither Truro nor The Falls Church was active in supporting the civil rights movement or in protesting the Vietnam War.

"I don't remember any political sermons at all," said Al Long, 80, who has been a member of The Falls Church since 1959. "We go there to find out what the Bible says and how we're supposed to live and relate to each other and the Lord. . . . And that's it."

Beginning in the 1970s, though, Truro embraced the antiabortion movement. It also started a program to help those who wanted to leave what it calls the "homosexual lifestyle."

"These emphases have never been mainstream within the Episcopal Church," said Joan Gunderson, a Pittsburgh scholar who is writing a history of the Virginia Diocese. "But there is a movement they are tapping into that is larger than just the Episcopal Church."

As Truro and The Falls Church adopted a conservative approach, dissenting members retreated to more liberal Episcopal churches in the area, such as Christ Church Alexandria. New worshipers, many of them born-again Christians who had grown disillusioned with their denominations, streamed in.

At Truro, "we don't have to water down the Gospel," said Mary Springmann, a member of the vestry and a born-again Christian who was raised Catholic.

These days, Truro is a magnet for conservatives across the Washington area, and the percentage of "cradle" Episcopalians among its 2,000 regular worshipers has dropped steadily. In the 1980s, more than two-thirds of its members had been raised Episcopalian, according to church surveys. Today, fewer than 40 percent grew up in the church.

Truro's red brick campus sprawls over four leafy acres at the intersection of two of Fairfax City's busiest arteries. In the vaulted main sanctuary, the church embodies the centuries-old traditions of its Anglican heritage -- stately rows of candles, organ pipes set into the wall behind an ornate crucifix and wooden pews equipped with fold-down kneelers.

In the labyrinthine hallways, shelves of books reflect the church's conservative bent: advice on evangelizing to "unbelievers" and "liberal secularists," how to "engage the culture with absolute Biblical truth" and tracts against the "occultism" of the New Age movement.

The Falls Church, whose historic sanctuary dates from 1769, draws almost 2,500 worshipers to its services on an average weekend.

Goss has attended with his family for years. He said he draws spiritual sustenance from the church's strong emphasis on the teachings of Jesus. "It's a congregation that really exhibits the love of Christ," he said last week. He declined to comment on the current controversy.

At least two-thirds of the worshipers are Methodists, Presbyterians or Baptists, and there is no pressure on them to be confirmed as Episcopalians, said the Rev. Rick Wright, associate rector.

Wright said the diverse membership of both congregations illustrates one of the great changes in American religion of the past half-century: The divisions between denominations are far less important today than the divisions within denominations.

"I tend to feel very comfortable rubbing shoulders with folks at McLean Bible** or Columbia Baptist . . . that are real orthodox, evangelical, biblical churches," said Truro's chief warden, or lay leader, Jim Oakes, referring to two Northern Virginia megachurches. "We share core beliefs. I think I would be more comfortable with them than with anyone I might run into at an Episcopal Diocesan Council meeting."

In some popular services, Truro and The Falls Church blend the traditional liturgy of the Book of Common Prayer with such megachurch touches as huge choirs, bass guitars and drums. Neither offers "smells and bells," the incense and chimes favored by "high church" Episcopal congregations. But some parishioners affectionately describe Truro as "McLean Bible with candles."

Attitudes toward homosexuality are one of the brightest lines between the liberal and conservative camps. But few members of Truro or The Falls Church say the division is, fundamentally, about whether to bless sex-same couples or whether to ordain gay ministers -- the issues that have strained relations between the Episcopal Church and the rest of the 75 million-member Anglican Communion, the worldwide family of churches descended from the Church of England.

Many say the rift involves something deeper -- whether the Bible is the word of God, Jesus is the only way to heaven and tolerance is more important than truth. When he was a newly ordained priest almost 20 years ago, Wright said, he talked with several other priests about how to respond to a teenager who asked, "Do you really believe in the Resurrection of Jesus?"

"The rest of the priests agreed that it was a sticky question, and they felt that way because they didn't believe in it, but they didn't want to say so," he said. "That's where the Episcopal Church has been for the last 20 years. It's not where we are."

----

** McLean Bible Church is, I believe, the largest megachurch in Northern Virginia, about 10 miles away from downtown Washington DC. It's a fundamentalist church (pre-mill, pre-trib, rapture, etc.).

[rainbowdog]

I know some things about the episcopals. My mom grew up episcopal but now she is is Southern Baptists and she takes their stand on their history involving their stand on homosexuality which you know that we are sinners but we can be cured My aunt, however has been an episcopal all her life and she believes that it is not a sin but a gift from God. Most baptist down here believe that the episcopals are schizephrenic because the sevice is very conservative but their beliefs are liberal. It also depends on what the members of that church believes. In Columbus we have 2 episcopal churches one is conservative and the other is liberal. The conservative church even threaten to not support the Diosecise because of the episcopals had a gay bishop. that is ridicalous. i fear that the church will split over this. a good support group www.integrityusa.org

[novaseeker]

And here is the latest on this, from the folks at The Falls Church ....

Why We Left the Episcopal Church

By The Rev. John Yates and Os Guinness
Monday, January 8, 2007; A15

When even President Gerald Ford's funeral at Washington National Cathedral is not exempt from comment about the crisis in the Episcopal Church, we believe it is time to set the record straight as to why our church and so many others around the country have severed ties with the Episcopal Church. Fundamental to a liberal view of freedom is the right of a person or group to define themselves, to speak for themselves and to not be dehumanized by the definitions and distortions of others. This right we request even of those who differ from us.

The core issue in why we left is not women's leadership. It is not "Episcopalians against equality," as the headline on a recent Post op-ed by Harold Meyerson put it. It is not a "leftward" drift in the church. It is not even primarily ethical -- though the ordination of a practicing homosexual as bishop was the flash point that showed how far the repudiation of Christian orthodoxy had gone.

The core issue for us is theological: the intellectual integrity of faith in the modern world. It is thus a matter of faithfulness to the lordship of Jesus, whom we worship and follow. The American Episcopal Church no longer believes the historic, orthodox Christian faith common to all believers. Some leaders expressly deny the central articles of the faith -- saying that traditional theism is "dead," the incarnation is "nonsense," the resurrection of Jesus is a fiction, the understanding of the cross is "a barbarous idea," the Bible is "pure propaganda" and so on. Others simply say the creed as poetry or with their fingers crossed.

It would be easy to parody the "Alice in Wonderland" surrealism of Episcopal leaders openly denying what their faith once believed, celebrating what Christians have gone to the stake to resist -- and still staying on as leaders. But this is a serious matter.

First, Episcopal revisionism abandons the fidelity of faith. The Hebrew scriptures link matters of truth to a relationship with God. They speak of apostasy as adultery -- a form of betrayal as treacherous as a husband cheating on his wife.

Second, Episcopal revisionism negates the authority of faith. The "sola scriptura" ("by the scriptures alone") doctrine of the Reformation church has been abandoned for the "sola cultura" (by the culture alone) way of the modern church. No longer under authority, the Episcopal Church today is either its own authority or finds its authority in the shifting winds of intellectual and social fashion -- which is to say it has no authority.

Third, Episcopal revisionism severs the continuity of faith. Cutting itself off from the universal faith that spans the centuries and the continents, it becomes culturally captive to one culture and one time. While professing tolerance and inclusiveness, certain Episcopal attitudes toward fellow believers around the world, who make up a majority of the Anglican family, have been arrogant and even racist.

Fourth, Episcopal revisionism destroys the credibility of faith. There is so little that is distinctively Christian left in the theology of some Episcopal leaders, such as the former bishop of Newark, that a skeptic can say, as Oscar Wilde said to a cleric of his time, "I not only follow you, I precede you." It is no accident that orthodox churches are growing and that almost all the great converts to the Christian faith in the past century, such as G.K. Chesterton and C.S. Lewis, have been attracted to full-blooded orthodoxy, not to revisionism. The prospect for the Episcopal Church, already evident in many dioceses, is inevitable withering and decline.

Fifth, Episcopal revisionism obliterates the very identity of faith. When the great truths of the Bible and the creeds are abandoned and there is no limit to what can be believed in their place, then the point is reached when there is little identifiably Christian in Episcopal revisionism. Would that Episcopal leaders showed the same zeal for their faith that they do for their property. If the present decline continues, all that will remain of a once strong church will be empty buildings, kept going by the finances, though not the faith, of the fathers.

These are the outrages we protest. These are the infidelities that drive us to separate. These are the real issues to be debated. We remain Anglicans but leave the Episcopal Church because the Episcopal Church first left the historic faith. Like our spiritual forebears in the Reformation, "Here we stand. So help us God. We can do no other."

The Rev. John Yates is rector and Os Guinness is a parishioner of The Falls Church, one of several Virginia churches that voted last month to sever ties with the Episcopal Church.

Warning ... rant following ...

While the letter is entertaining in that it raises many a straw-man (i.e., references to John Spong's speculations and writings), and denies the reality of what made them feel like leaving (the double problem of a female primate and a gay Bishop in NH), the cutest part of the letter is the following:

Fundamental to a liberal view of freedom is the right of a person or group to define themselves, to speak for themselves and to not be dehumanized by the definitions and distortions of others. This right we request even of those who differ from us.

Now, this is the bee's knees, isn't it? Here we have a bunch of anti-gay, anti-woman conservatives who are soooooo uncomfortable with having a gay man as NH's bishop and a woman primate that they felt the need to align with a Bishop in Nigeria who supports laws forbidding gay people even to meet in public for dinner ... and they are the ones asking for the freedom not to be "dehumanized by the definitions and distortions of others...."

Excuse me??

It amazes me how out-to-lunch these folks are about how they themselves have dehumanized and distorted the reality of others -- namely the many LGBT members of the Episcopal Church, the many women serving as priests, canons and, yes, now as the Primate. It seems like their own distortions do not matter, but yet when someone calls them on how objectively wierd it is for the parish of which George Washington was a member to align itself with a radically conservative anti-gay African Bishop, they cry foul and demand that they not be "dehumanized" and then pull the self-pitying Martin Luther routine at the end of the letter.

One thing is for certain, Rev. Yates: You are no Martin Luther!

[Emproph]

I thought the “out-to-lunch” bit was an especially tasteful touch.

[Daniel]

Great analysis aka rant! The whole thing reeks of 'but we're the real victims!' Next they'll be saying they are the true Christians. And they have the gall to quote Oscar Wilde. Defies imagination.

My coda of a rant is now over.

[nmwolfboy]

Amen to that rant! And, you managed to use "bee's knees" too!

[nmwolfboy]

Off on another tangent, but it directly relates to the current situation in the Episcopal Church. Bruce Gardner is a member of the Executive Council of the Episcopal Church of the United States of America, and he is quoted on this blog posting:
http://admiralofmorality.blogspot.co...onhood-of.html

Reading his thoughts really soothed my heart about what's going on in the Episcopal Church. What do you think?

-scott

[novaseeker]

Oh, certainly. The article reflects the majority of Episcopal congregations today, I think (and that majority is getting stronger as more congregations who are anti-gay leave).

There's no question in my mind that the anti-gay people are outnumbered now in the Episcopal Church ... the Falls Church/Truro people knew that as well, which is why they left. If they thought they would win on the national level, they probably would have stayed.

[dsdrane]

...that's what I say.

This is precisely when I love being an American. F@%k 'em..and the horse they rode in on.

EXCUSE ME?!?! Tail wagging the dog much? Since when did the Bishop of Nigeria carry such weight in the Anglican Communion? And since when has the Archbishop of Canterbury been such a complete wuss? If he, in fact, has no power, why is there a Communion at all?

Is it just me??

Hear me now, believe me later: the Episcopal Church in America should leave the Anglican Communion as a matter of conscience. F@%k 'em! I hope Archbishop Rowan has a blast with his buds in Nigeria. What a fun time they'll have. Woohoo! I'm so sorry we'll miss it.

Didn't we break away for a reason? Didn't we have to go to Scottish bishops to get our own American bishops consecrated? (Loving the Scottish!)

Bottom line: let Rowan deal with the conservative throng in Africa and elsewhere in the name of Anglican unity. Yuck! I'm so over it. The Episcopal Church in America needs the rest of them much less than they need us.

They'll figure it out eventually.

Until that day comes, they should be kicked to the curb.

Harrumph!

[Daniel]

Ouch!

[dsdrane]

Harumph!

[nmwolfboy]

Fr. Matthew is an Episcopalian priest in Yonkers who video-blogs regularly. His latest was a balm this morning, when i was stressing over some recent articles from troublesome anti-gay Anglican leaders about the upcoming Primates' meeting in Tazania.

Here's a link to Fr. Matthew's latest video.

[Daniel]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/us...rtner=homepage

New Episcopal Leader Braces for Gay-Rights Test

By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: February 11, 2007
At a book party last week at the New York headquarters of the Episcopal Church, a line of more than 100 fans waited to have the church’s new presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori, sign copies of her new book of sermons, “A Wing and a Prayer.”

Archbishop Peter Akinola of Nigeria, a leading conservative.
Bishop Jefferts Schori, the first woman presiding bishop in the history of the Anglican Communion, appeared a bit surprised at the celebrity treatment but clearly enjoyed the sentiment.

She is about to head off to a hostile reception.

This week, Bishop Jefferts Schori will represent the Episcopal Church at a meeting in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, with the presiding bishops of the 37 other provinces in the global Anglican Communion, the world’s third-largest church body. Some of those bishops, known as primates, have broken their ties with the American church after it ordained an openly gay bishop and permitted the blessing of same-sex unions.

Some primates have said they will not sit at the same table with Bishop Jefferts Schori. Some have threatened to walk out of the meeting.

In an interview in her office last week, Bishop Jefferts Schori said the conflict was more about “biblical interpretation” than about homosexuality.

“We have had gay bishops and gay clergy for millennia,” she said. “The willingness to be open about that is more recent.”

She said that what she wanted to convey to her fellow primates was that despite the highly-publicized departure of some congregations (a spokesman said 45 of 7,400 have left and affiliated with provinces overseas), the Episcopal Church has the support of most members, who are engaged in worship and mission work, and not fixated on this controversy.

“A number of the primates have perhaps inaccurate ideas about the context of this church. They hear from the voices quite loudly that this church is going to hell in a handbasket,” she said. “The folks who are unhappy represent a small percentage of the whole, but they are quite loud.”

In the global picture, however, those unhappy with the Americans are a significant bloc, and some are ready to cut off the American branch of the Anglican Communion. Conservatives were emboldened recently when an influential bishop, N. T. Wright of Durham, England, said in an interview, “Even if it means a bit of pruning, the plant will be healthier for it.”

Bishop Jefferts Schori said the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Most Rev. Rowan Williams, had accommodated the conservatives because he also presides over the Church of England, where the conservatives are a more substantial presence than in the United States, and are increasingly assertive.

Bishop Jefferts Schori, who is 52, exudes a cool presence, sitting erect in a crimson shirt and white clerical collar. She uses few words to make her points. In her previous career, she was an oceanographer, specializing in squid and octopuses.

Ordained a priest only 13 years ago, she is the former bishop of Nevada, where she permitted blessings for gay couples and voted to confirm the Rev. Canon V. Gene Robinson, who is openly gay, as bishop of New Hampshire in 2003. She was elected presiding bishop last June, a nine-year assignment.

She said opposition came primarily from a “handful of primates,” led by Archbishop Peter Akinola of Nigeria, with support from those in Uganda and Rwanda. She said they had made it appear as if the bulk of the Anglican Communion was arrayed against the Americans, when that was not the case.

“It’s abundantly clear that there’s a diversity of opinion in the provinces of the Communion” she said. Asked why they are not more vocal, she said, “I think that has to be tenderly nurtured. You don’t want to put people in a precarious situation” by encouraging them to speak out against their own primates.

One African bishop recently did so. After the House of Bishops in Tanzania voted in December to cut ties to the Episcopal Church and stop accepting its donations, Bishop Mdimi Mhogolo, who leads the Diocese of Central Tanganyika, wrote a letter saying, “The issue of homosexuality is not fundamental to the Christian faith.”

At the meeting in Tanzania, Bishop Jefferts Schori is to sit down with the primates of 13 provinces that do not ordain women as priests, not to mention as bishops. But she said her sex was not the reason some primates were preparing to shun her. The problem is that some bishops say the Episcopal Church has failed to repent or to declare a moratorium on gay blessings, steps required by a committee of officials commissioned by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 2004.

She is likely to be face to face with Archbishop Akinola, who has created a rival network of conservative churches in the United States.

Bishop Jefferts Schori said that if she is rebuked at the meeting, it will not be anything new; she experienced that before as an oceanographer: “The first time I was chief scientist on a cruise, the captain wouldn’t speak to me because I was a woman.”

Asked how she would respond if primates walked out on her, she said, “Life is too short to get too flustered.”

[dsdrane]

"While those who seek full inclusion for gay and lesbian Christians, and the equal valuing of their gifts for ministry, do so out of an undeniable passion for justice, others seek a fidelity to the tradition that cannot understand or countenance the violation of what that tradition says about sexual ethics. Each is being asked to forbear for a season." [Italics mine.]
++KJS

Golly, just one more season?! Well, that doesn't seem like so much to ask for, does it? I mean, we wouldn't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, would we? And it's not like we Americans have any problem with being dictated to from abroad or anything, right?

Well, just as long as it's only one more season, I guess.

[suzer1013]

With all the goings on in the Episcopal blogosphere, it's easy to feel blue about the recent developments. Leave it to MadPriest to find an answer to the whole mess! If y'all have been following the whole Anglican mess, go here for a bit of a laugh:

http://revjph.blogspot.com/2007/02/w...e-here-to.html

Susan

[Diane Vera]

How many Anglicans does it take to change a light bulb?

Shhh! The verger is changing it now.... Don't mention change in front of the Nigerian archbishop!

[WillySF]

How many Anglo-Catholics does it take to change a light bulb?

None. We use candles.

[bryanf]

I hate to burst some of y'alls bubble but many of the churches that are a part of the more "conservative" wings of the American Anglicanism places an emphasis on that a large branch of The Episcopal Church is undermining creedal faith, tradition, and scripture. Yeah many of them are oppossed to homosexuality. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. However if you go to any of the national meetings or participate much in the discourse its not the primary issue. The primary issue for them is that they believe The Episcopal Church has abandoned or greatly weakened the authority of Scripture, Tradition, and The Creeds for a greater focus upon Reason and perhaps Experience.

Honestly the reason I am so split between The Episcopal Church and churches a part of the ACN is that:

--> I do believe that The Episcopal Church does allow much room for those who have abandoned creedal faith, and even allows them to stay ministry. Perfect example of this is Bishop John Shelby Spong. In strongly believing in the authority of the church and that there is orthodoxy, I have a real problem with much of The Episcopal Church. Particularly I would have a problem with submitting myself to The Episcopal Church because of the current leadership under Bishop Katherine Schori.

So in part I agree with the churches that are splinterring off from The Episcopal Church. There comes a point when unity most be broken. Here it is when that which is good is forsaken.

-->I do believe much of the churches in the ACN are fundamentalist and this provides also a chance for them to express the hatred and fears of their heart. What is going on with the current Archbishop of Nigiri is a perfect example of someone doing something they think is good when indeed it reaks of the devil.

However righ tnow I am casting my lot with the conservatives. Though I am a gay man, I still believe in orthodoxy. But I will admit it makes it really hard right now in the church at large. Mainly because the crisis induced by many of those who have abandoned creedal orthodoxy is going to set back individuals like me who still believe in the authority of the creeds but will/is seeking to dialogue about homosexuality from a faith perspective.

But basically I think alot of this thread has completely missed out what is the issue for the Anglican right.