Judgmentalism

[pnggrad79]

My wife was preparing for a Bible Study we were hosting at our house on Saturday and a lesbian couple came early. My wife had been playing the Sirius station of Soft Rock Hits on the TV while she had finished straightening things up. She was tired and needed some lively music. The lesbian couple came in and as soon as they heard the music, said to my wife, "We are getting ready for a Bible Study, could we listen to some Christian music, please?"

Now, I am all for Christian music, but I sided with my wife. It is our house and we can listen to whatever we want. Everyone was not there yet, and I don't feel they had any right coming in there and telling us to switch the music.

I have an appreciation of all kinds of music, and since I have faced the critical, judgmental attitudes of some Christians who aren't gay, I feel like as a lesbian Christian, I have no place judging anyone for what they do or don't do. That is God's job.

I just felt like it was a little like they had not tasted much criticism and judgment to know what it felt like.

Judgmentalism doesn't escape gays and lesbians, even though, it should.

[Sharone]

I'm sorry that happened. I have had similar experiences with gays and lesbians in my life. Unfortunately, judgementalism isn't reserved for straight folks. It's sad that people feel they have to make sure everyone else does it the way they think it should be done, instead of just living and letting live. If this was a Biblical issue like catching you smoking pot or something, I could maybe get their indignation, but listening to soft rock? Come on!
Sharone

[scorpiogirl]

That's odd but it does happen. I've never understood how people who have been judged so harshly by society can turn around and do the same thing.

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by scorpiogirl

That's odd but it does happen. I've never understood how people who have been judged so harshly by society can turn around and do the same thing.

It's easy to see. If you have something that you despise in yourself and you see that same thing in other people, you feel uncomfortable and attack them. (self loathng finally finding a target) It's gratifying but it is also the lowest form of cowardice.

I have done it. It is one of the things I've done in the past that I am most ashamed of. So I Try my best not to ever repeat it.

[keltic63]

I have always had in my mind that I should try to be consistent. For instance, growing up, my parents wouldn't do certain things on Sundays (keep the sabbath holy, etc) but I often wondered why I should change certain behaviors based on the day of the week, or a particular situation. It feels hypocritical me to hold that kind of standard. "Don't listen to rock music, it's Sunday!" well, if it's wrong on Sunday, wouldn't it be just as wrong on Saturday?


Seeing as how the guests arrived early, it was inconsiderate on their part to do so, and then to make some kind of demand, was less than polite. However, there was judgment in their demand; I might have changed the station to something more relaxing, but I doubt I would have headed right for the Christian station!

[marutidas]

I think we all my have attack someone with trait that we find undesireable in ourselves at on time or another, Scott, the point is to work on ourselves and not be to concerned with ohter people and the way the are, but do your best to talk to them on how you feel, It is OK to be up front with people, if you do it in a courtious and diplomatic tone. Easier said than done, trust me I know, I still have trouble with it.

[kara speltz]

Originally Posted by marutidas

I think we all my have attack someone with trait that we find undesireable in ourselves at on time or another, Scott, the point is to work on ourselves and not be to concerned with ohter people and the way the are, but do your best to talk to them on how you feel, It is OK to be up front with people, if you do it in a courtious and diplomatic tone. Easier said than done, trust me I know, I still have trouble with it.

Some 30+ years ago, I did a training called Arica. They were the first folks to say when something makes you angry pay attention to how it resonates with some belief of your own. I remember flippently responding that the VN war made me angry, and I hardly approved of it.

But as years have gone by, I've come to agree, for the most part. The other aspect that I think creates the anger and hurt feelings is watching ourselves play "victim." I'm so, so good at that role unfortunately, and it is often the first place I go, rather than taking responsibility to just speak up for myself. My guess is some of the anger that arises from such situations is from an anger at ourselves that we project on others.

Gandhi got it that we can only change ourselves and in that process it changes the world. So, when I get frustrated with a response where I've not taken responsibility, I try to focus on how I might do it different the next time, and that does help.

kara

[pnggrad79]

Kara,
I too am guilty of not taking responsibility and just acquiesing to keep peace and not cause trouble. It lets the person who initiated the offense off the hook and lets them win. All my wife and I did was angrily switch the station and went on about our business. They got their way and we had to cater to them. What should we have said instead is my question?

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by davidcom

PNG,

Who cares who wins? They don't win, because they have been rude and boorish and they have annoyed a Christian sister for no reason. Either overlook their boorishness and cheerfully change the music or be honest and say something like:

"You know... that's a good point, but I've had kind of a rough day and am finding this music to be relaxing. Mind if we just keep listening to this until the Bible Study starts?"

Seems to me that there is an aspect of non-violence at stake here. If your anger is overwhelming you about something as small as what music station should be playing, how are you going to react when some ignorant bigot burns a cross on your lawn? Loving our enemies is WAY HARDER than loving our rude and dopey friends.

Dave

David,

I think there was more there than just the boorish behavior; it was the judgment that was attached to it. the rude friends added to their request the qualifier of "we shouldn't be listening to secular music just before a Bible study." In the request was some kind of implication that felt judgmental to png.


Now, I'm not disagreeing with what you've posted, David. I think you have a point here. If this little thing bothers us, how can we deal with the big things? But then, your example, a burning cross, is just that, a BIG thing, and rather obvious to us. I think that png may have been surprised that her friends (not strangers who oppose all things lgbt) made the judgmental statement. And let's face it, very often it's not strangers who hurt us the most, it is those close to us.

[pnggrad79]

This couple didn't outright say,"This type of music is NOT what we should be listening to", rather it was implied, which makes it much more like the common judgments glbt people receive from straight Christians. "It's not God's plan" (Joel and Victoria Osteen), or "Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve". It is implied judgment, glossing it over so that there is the slightest question as to the meaning of what was said. Joel and Victoria Osteen absolutely make me want to throw up, with their plastic Christianity, and the way they don't come right out and condemn homosexuals( because all these rich homos are contributing to their wealth and prosperity) so a LOT of gay people happily go to Lakewood and make their tithes and offerings to this church, but if they went up to ask J & V to marry them, they would receive another plastic smile and the comment, "We don't believe it is God's plan for you to get married. Go find a person of the opposite sex and then we will gladly marry you." It is implied judgmentalism and it is covered up with plastic niceties and no one really understands what it is.