MLK and War

[IVAWSGT]

In this time when Right To Serve is calling for gay people to enlist in the military I ask have we considered the words of MLK for guidance? I belive lifting the ban is a good thing but at the expense of young people participating in genocide? How could this be moral? What is the logic of thinking its more important to get gay people to openly participate in genocide than to stop genocide.

In the speech "Beyond Vietnam" he said:
As we counsel young men concerning military service we must clarify for them our nation's role in Vietnam and challenge them with the alternative of conscientious objection. I am pleased to say that this is the path now being chosen by more than seventy students at my own alma mater, Morehouse College, and I recommend it to all who find the American course in Vietnam a dishonorable and unjust one. Moreover I would encourage all ministers of draft age to give up their ministerial exemptions and seek status as conscientious objectors. These are the times for real choices and not false ones. We are at the moment when our lives must be placed on the line if our nation is to survive its own folly. Every man of humane convictions must decide on the protest that best suits his convictions, but we must all protest.

You can read the whole text here,
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html

[Alecto]

There's a lot of wrongs that need righting. This war is definitely among them. I do think it's possible for some people to focus on one wrong, and support the efforts of others working to right others; in fact I think it's mostly necessary because it's entirely too much for one person to take on the task of saving the world. That said, I do think that even within the realm of queer rights, I personally find military inclusion a low priority. 1)In the end, it's not going to change because it's the right thing to do, it's going to change because the government needs the bodies. 2)Regardless of my individual feelings on this war (most people I know still don't agree with our being involved in Iraq), there's still a greater moral dilemma of having bunches of queer people risking their lives for a country that does not extend the promised freedoms to them. Call me spiteful, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

[IVAWSGT]

Allowing us to serve openly sill does not give us the full rights of all citizens.

The ban NEEDS to be lifted, but do it in a responsible context. Endorsing militarism is NOT responsible.

This campaign has repeatedly displayed the military as a benign organization. They do this because its required to say the military is a fine organization if you are trying to enlist. I am saying this is dangerous. Don't set up the paradigm that to want the ban to be lifted you are pro-war. Lift the ban AND end the war. You can't work to end the war with spokes people from the Right to Serve campaign saying "First, my thoughts on the military. It can and does do good things, necessary things. It is not merely a killing machine and war creator". Before someone makes that kind of statement they need to read what people who are in war are saying about it. I suggest starting with a book by Joshua Key. It will open your eyes to what happening in Iraq.

I have seen people say on here that we don't need to be worried about the National Guard. I served in the National Guard, I saw gay women get deployed to Iraq. I (a gay women) would have been deployed if I were a man because they took mechanics and deployed them as infantry.

What I am trying to say is WAKE UP!!!!
Read some of the accounts that soldiers have sent back from war. Children being run over, families being broken up in middle of the night house raids, women being raped, soldiers coming home with horrendous mental wounds.

I can't understand thinking its more important to get gay people to openly participate in genocide than to stop genocide. I do not belive my rights are more important than people lives. No one is free until everyone is free.

I fully believe there are ways to fight for both at the same time. Perpetuating militartism in order to allow gays to serve is not one of them.

[Jamie McDaniel]

Last year's Right to Serve Campaign created much dissent in Soulforce. You can read about it in this thread.

[IVAWSGT]

I read it and responded.
Soulforce is doing so many awesome things that why I don't understand this campaign.

Its heart is the the right place but I think it is sorely missing some vital information about what the military is really like. Then again I am coming from the pro-peace mindset and not all gay troops are anti-war.

[BruceChris]

All governments are corrupt, to some extent, none completely truthful. But the Bush administration may very well be the worst in our history, in the opinion of more and more historians. Zbigniew Brzezinski as much as said so, recently. I personally have never heard Bush ever tell the truth, unless it was in the service of a greater lie.

Our country is crippled by a lack of proportional representation, which translates into a two party/or nothing political system. When one's frustration level reaches a certail level, anarchy begins to look really attractive, but in my life I have found that I need something positive, to work toward. I hope that you find yours. (Or move to Minneapolis, we could really use your energy)

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[kara speltz]

Originally Posted by IVAWSGT

I read it and responded.
Soulforce is doing so many awesome things that why I don't understand this campaign.

Its heart is the the right place but I think it is sorely missing some vital information about what the military is really like. Then again I am coming from the pro-peace mindset and not all gay troops are anti-war.

I very much agree with you; so much so that I quit this organization which I loved so deeply and gave up my position on staff. I regret that now. I am hopeful that RTS is a thing of the past. And I know there is no such thing as a perfect organization. I've paid a steep price giving up my staff position.

Life is about compromise and paradox, and so I've returned to Soulforce with the understanding that it's about that. Thomas Merton, one of my heros, had this amazing statement that the goal of the spiritual life is not the elimination of struggle, but the sanctification of struggle. We're doing some heavy duty "santification," these days.

Does that mean we don't continue to raise these issues? Absolutely not. I believe we continue to point out the paradoxes, as you have done. My hope is that you'll hang in there with us and see all the totally awesome stuff Soulforce is doing. And should RTS become active again, keep reminding us of the paradox and see if you can help us find a third position.

Kara