same sex marrage???

[runningFREAK]

Hey all, I am new to this forum but i am hoping that you guys can help me out some. In one of my classes ( faith and Personal ethics) We have to present a ethiclly sound arguement for certain issues. The issue i feel passionater about, exspecally being at a conservative christian college, was the issue of same sex marrage.

I was wondering if any could lead me to or give me sound information on the constiutionality of same sex marrage and the whole debate. I have been trying to find something solid so i can present a sound back arguement but i typically find peoples personal feelings, which is good but not as your whole arguement. So any help would be greatly appreceiated.

[andrewlittle]

I will give much more thought to your request, and hopefully post a cogent response.

Having just read this post, however, I have just a quick reply about the question in general.

Constitutionality, as a concept, may or may not be related to ethics. True, there are, hopefully, ethical underpinnings to a constitution - we in the U.S. certainly believe that is true of our's - but the nature of a document like that is selective and inherently exclsuive in the first place.

Our constitution applies, for instance, to the U.S. - it was not designed to refer to all of humanity or all countries - it was designed to be the substance of government for this small corner of the world.

I think the issue to be mined here is the ethical reasons behind recognizing same-sex marriage, along with how a/the constitution then addresses or fails to address the ethical considerations.

Ethics should always to be barometer against which a consitution is measured, not visa versa. Ethic should be able to be applied universally, while a constitution, by design, is specific to a certain population and state/country.

A constitution may be flawed because it is unethical - and an amendment can be sought to change that. An ethic, however, is not flawed or unethical simply because it is unconstitutional.

Anyway, I know that's nitpicking the question - which may or may not of use to you. I will seriously give some thought to your basic request as I continue to wake up.

[u-dog]

A new (2006) book out "A Time to Embrace" by William Stacey Johnson (a lawyer and professor of Systematic Theology at Princeton seminary) looks at same gender relationships from the point of view of theology, politics, and constitutional law. I think it is just the resource that you are looking for. Its available through Amazon for sure and maybe through Cokesbury Books (the Methodist bookstore system)

Dave

[BruceChris]

I just sent you a 3 piece mssg on maleness, and femaleness, and one of the points that I want to make is that we are ALL part male, part female, and that gender can be measured on 5 or 6 separate scales. For most of us, most or all of our factors usually lie near one end or the other.

But for some of us, like transsexuals, there will be a distinct dissonance between the body, and the inherent sense of one's maleness, or femaleness. There are some people say, born with a male body, get a sex change that they feel as absolutely necessary, and then date women, as a lesbian. There are ALL combinations out there, and I have met or seen most of them.

In order to believe in absolute homosexuality, or heterosexuality, it is first necessary to believe in absolute maleness, or absolute femaleness.

O.K., end of rant.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Alecto]

You need to start with how you're defining morality. If it's not hurting anyone, including the self, then can it be immoral?
Faith is a highly personal thing, and some could argue that they have faith that God wouldn't put them on this earth, with this draw that doesn't hurt anyone, and then expect them to ignore it their whole lives. There are as many stances on faith as there are people. So, there's the title of your class. It might be useful to look at other things in the Bible, and ask WHY they're in the Bible. I'm coming from a Catholic background, and in highschool we had a morality class where that sort of thing was (technically) encouraged.

You might choose to outline the difference between legal and religious marriage, because it IS an "American value" to see people as equal regardless of religion. I don't know how societal norms / values play into your discussions in class though, and going that route does also tend to concede that same sex marriage would be wrong in a religious sense.

[keltic63]

For a Christian perspective in favor of same sex marriage, check out What God Has Joined Together: The Christian Case for Gay marriage by David G Myers and Leatha Dawson Scanzoni. It's very thorough, they are respected theologians, and it's a quick read.

For a more social/cultural treatment of the topic, try Gay Marriage: Why It Is Good for Gays, Good for Straights, and Good for America by Jonathan Rauch.

[andrewlittle]

... I like Keltic's and Dave's answers. After giving this some thought, I came to a conclusion that is somewhat related to the course you are taking, "Faith and Personal Ethics".

I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - that your teacher/professor might be expecting you to so some research of scholarly texts, possible even ethicists who have studied the topics long and hard, and written books or peer-reviewed articles.

A personal ethic should, I would think, indicate that actually doing said research, and learning something from it would be the ethical thing to do.

[u-dog]

Hi Uncle Andy my brother and dear friend! Only your friends will tell you when Your boxers are in a bunch. Remember! "W.W.Z.S" (what would Zerbie Say?)

Yours non-anxiously,

Grampa Dave

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Hi Uncle Andy my brother and dear friend! Only your friends will tell you when Your boxers are in a bunch. Remember! "W.W.Z.S" (what would Zerbie Say?)

Yours non-anxiously,

Grampa Dave

Gotcha! Editing as we speak. Thanks for the WWZS reminder.

[JacoBison]

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

Ethics should always to be barometer against which a constitution is measured, not visa versa.

Very well said.

I kinda like what the stand up comedians say about gay marriage: "Let them be as miserable as the rest of us."