"If you dare to cry faggot..."

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

If I remember right, this addresses a different pamphlet and manifesto/agenda. I would research this before making a strong assumption either way.

Yes. I agree. And since ladyinred found the above piece from William Dannemeyer, I'm pretty sure this is a seperate "Gay Manifesto".

Still, I'd like to find out who wrote Michael Swift's "Gay Manifesto" essay since I now know that "Michael Swift" is a fake name.

Rick

[ladyinred]

Somewhat dated , but this will give you an idea how long they have been at this gay agenda thing.http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v07n1/conshomo.html

[revtj]

WARNING: If all of these things do not come to pass quickly, we will subject orthodox Jews and Christians to the most sustained hatred and vilification in recent memory. We have captured the liberal establishment and the press. We have already beaten you on a number of battlefields. And we have the spirit of the age on our side. You have neither the faith nor the strength to fight us, so you might as well surrender now.

This is abominable. It's classic projection onto the "other."

It reminds me of those internet urban legends, like the guy who was found packed in ice in his tub with his kidney removed. It's scary but it's surreal.

We have to have faith that common sense will emerge. I just cannot believe that the majority of Americans would buy into this.

[ladyinred]

Michael Bronski of the boston gay community news helped publish, "If you dare cry faggot", there is no Michael Swift, he'd modeled it after a satire written by Jonathan Swift 1729.

[revtj]

I remember Bronski...he's got a great website

Here is his comment on the "Gay Agenda" piece:

"We printed it thinking that it was sort of funny," said Michael Bronski, who was also the main feature writer for the paper, and who continues to live and write in Cambridge, Mass. "It's been picked up by all these lunatic right-wing fringe people. In retrospect, it's caused so much ... it keeps getting quoted as being serious by people on the right and it simply was making a political point, using humour. I personally would, knowing how much it's been misrepresented, I would think twice about printing it then."

Here are some more resources.

I believe this has already been posted elsewhere on Soulforce forums by our very own forum pal, Joe?

Bronski is my favorite kind of liberationist. He wrote a great piece on Harry Hay

I could be mistaken but I think support of NAMBLA made Bronski & Hay unpopular in the mainstream gay movement...it certainly doesn't look good when paired with the satirical essay's threat of "sodomizing your youth." Nonetheless he seems like a Stephen Colbert prototype to me.

It seems like everything has to be oversimplified and dumbed down to get Americans to understand it. We are an erotically-illiterate culture.

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by revtj

I could be mistaken but I think support of NAMBLA made Bronski & Hay unpopular in the mainstream gay movement

I can see how support for an organization that wants to legalize sex with children would make anybody unpopular. No wonder he doesn't use his real name.

Rick

[revtj]

Originally Posted by Rick336

I can see how support for an organization that wants to legalize sex with children would make anybody unpopular. No wonder he doesn't use his real name.

Rick

It is strange that man-boy love was normal in biblical times, yet it is one of the most extreme offenses in western society today. Isn't that evidence that moral values CHANGE over time and VARY from culture to culture?

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by revtj

It is strange that man-boy love was normal in biblical times, yet it is one of the most extreme offenses in western society today. Isn't that evidence that moral values CHANGE over time and VARY from culture to culture?

Yes. There was a lot of strange and brutal things that happened during biblical times. And even as recent as the 19th century in America it was perfectly moral to own slaves. Child slaves were forced to work from sunrise to sunset.

In the settlement of the American West hundreds of thousands of Native American men, women and children were slaughtered by Bible believing people under the approval of the government. In California alone 120,000 indians died between 1849 and 1870. Few saw the immorality of it.

At the same time in the industrial north, many young children worked long hours in factories under brutal and dangerous conditions.

In Germany in the 1940s almost two-million Jewish children were murdered while many looked the other way.

Thank God times and civilization have changed.

Rick

[ladyinred]

i was wondering if anyone here would consider writing an expose' on the "If you dare cry faggot" piece that was written under the pseudonym of Micheal Swift and having it published in a newspaper or magazine perhaps. To expose the lie that Dobson has said about there being a gay revolutionary who is actually leading the gay community and conspiring to overthrow heterosexuals. Since such a person does not exist it obviously proves there is no gay revolution or conspiracy. Anyone up for the task,LOL
If Dobson was openly discredited for the remarks he published in his book, people may see through the right wing agenda and exposing their lies would help people see that there is no such threat.It would also help people see that the religious leaders they trust so much are not always truthful or credible and may lead them to question these people and their authority. Yes Revtj, Joe posted an article written by someone else on the subject on the net.

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by ladyinred

i was wondering if anyone here would consider writing an expose' on the "If you dare cry faggot" piece that was written under the pseudonym of Micheal Swift and having it published in a newspaper or magazine perhaps. To expose the lie that Dobson has said about there being a gay revolutionary who is actually leading the gay community and conspiring to overthrow heterosexuals. Since such a person does not exist it obviously proves there is no gay revolution or conspiracy. Anyone up for the task,LOL

Ladyinred,

This is a great idea. An article in a major newspaper or magazine would get a lot of national attention. I've actually thought about the idea of a video documentary on this and have contacted a friend of mine who knows about documentary filmmaking who has offered his help. I've already got the fiancial backing, I just need the "know how". I'm still rolling this around in my head.

Rick

[ladyinred]

I don't know Rick , what about writing an article to a magazine or an editorial in a newspaper? A documentary sounds like a good idea. How about putting your head and a few other heads together as to how this might be accomplished. Just a few suggestions, but I thought if we could expose the lies of Dobson and the others who perpetuate this gay agenda myth, people could then see through their lies . I tell you one thing they are doing enough to spread the myth that there is some gay revolutionary out there organizing his plot against heterosexuals, and to expose that such a person doesn't even exist would do alot of damage to their credibility.

I just feel if we keep silent on this issue people will be misled to believe the worst and it will help the religious right in justifying legislation to discriminate against us. It gives them the ammunition to do so if they can gain credibility by spreading such lies. People are apt to believe what they read and hear unless countered or refuted by a more credible source. What about getting the guy who originally published the piece ,"If you dare cry faggot.' to come out publicly ,or even in a documentary, telling the truth about why it was published and refuting the claim,that there is gay revolutionary by the name of Michael Swift?

[Steven E. Webster]

This is an interesting thread!

I notice what ladyinred just quoted from William Dannenmyer (in post #40 in this thread) is attributed in this link (cited earlier in post # 40 in this thread) to a "gay activist" named Steve Warren and cited as published in the Advocate in 1987. Here's that link again:

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/2/212006a.asp

Is there really such an article in the Advocate? Is there really a Steve Warren, and what's his claim to fame?

It seems to me that Agape Press, Dannenmyer and the like are not really interested in "truth," and they almost say as much. They suggest that it does not matter that Michael Swift's essay was a satire--what matters is it's usefulness to promote the idea of a vast homosexual conspiracy to destroy Christianity.

One interpretation of "postmodernism" is that "truth" does not matter, that "everything is relative." The Christian Right seems to simultaneously oppose postmodernism, and at the same time completely embrace postmodernism. They attack others for "relativism," but they embrace it themselves. They say they defend "Truth," but they play fast and loose with the truth when truth gets in the way of their propaganda story.

I envision Soulforce as holding a very high and respectful view of "Truth" which respects multiple perpectives on truth without surrendering the view that there is Truth which we must collectively strive towards.

Steven Webster

[u-dog]

Steve Warren
Steve Warren Advocate
Steve Warren Act-up

and came up with.... ZIP. Except for religious right sites that were quoting this business. Hmmmm....

I went to Advocate. com to see if their back issues were indexed there but the sit was down for maintenance.

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by ladyinred

Just a few suggestions, but I thought if we could expose the lies of Dobson and the others who perpetuate this gay agenda myth, people could then see through their lies .

I agree. Now that we know that James Dobson included the Michael Swift essay in the chapter, "The Origins of Homosexuality" in his book Bringing Up Boys, how can we not persue this?

If Dobson actually believes that Swift's essay is representative of the majority of LGBT people, then we need to set him straight. We need to educate him to the real intentions behind the LGBT rights movement.

If he doesn't believe that Swift's essay is representative of gay folks, then we need an explanation of why he felt the need to include the essay in his book on parenting with no mention that it was a 20 year old satire. In other words, Dobson has some explaining to do.

The reason I believe that it is important to confront Dobson and demand that the essay be removed from his book is because this book has already sold millions of copies. This means that millions of people have read the essay with no idea that it is a satire. Chances are that they believe that it is representative of most gay people and are frightened.

Imagine if a very influential person in America wrote a book on raising children and in the book included an article about African Americans. The article had nothing postive to say about African Americans but did include a satire by an unknown African American author that said among other things, "We want to rape all your young, white, virgins daughters. We will seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your youth groups, wherever we see them. If you call us nigger we will kill you and defile your dead body. Tremble white swine. We will be victorious."

And what if the influential person who publiushed the book never stated that the essay was satire but instead included this statement about African Americans: "Moms and dads. Are you listening? These people are the biggest threat to your children. They are a particular danger to your innocent daughters who have no idea what is planned for them. Is there anything more important than taking the time to protect your kids? I think not."

Doesn't this sound like something that the Ku Klux Klan would publish? How do you think the African American community would react to this?

Rick

[ladyinred]

Exactly. But I also feel the satire was written more out of anger and frustration and has more of a sarcastic tone than anything. But it is twenty years old as you've mentioned and no such person named Michael Swift has materialized along with his revolutionary following.If they were an actuality then they would be saying something about it. Of course Dobson may already know that such a person doesn't exist, I don't know. But if he did some research on his resources, he would make sure he had reliable information and backround on them.