Gay Jesus

[BrentRichards]

Fan of John, myself, just for the record.

[u-dog]

Me too! you wanna go out sometime? You can lie with your head in my lap in a meadow by the lake and I'll read passages of "The Institutes of the Christian Religion" Sounds dreamy huh?

[revtj]

Highly recommentded reading :

Jesus Acted Up: A Gay and Lesbian Manifesto by Robert Goss. This was my 'bible' for about 3 years and I was blessed to take a seminar from him in seminary. He does not claim Jesus was gay, but he explores who the Christ is for Queers in liberation context.

The Man Jesus Loved: Homoerotic Narratives from the New Testament by Ted Jennings, the first who could find a publisher to risk such a subject...he does not maintain that Jesus was gay but he explores the secret Gospel of Mark & the boy in the garden who was left naked at Jesus' arrest in the canonical gospel of Mark.

I do not believe a substantial case can ever be made that Jesus was gay (or straight, for that matter...) because 'gay' is a constructed self-definition that simply did not exist in biblical times.

But Jesus was "Queer" in that he did not follow Jewish (or Roman) tradition and marry (...or did he?) and establish a male household with as many wives and male & female servants as he could afford. This could be because he was A. Poor (very likely so) B. Of ignoble birth, such as a Samaritan (I accept this as true, but it's debatable of course) C. A rebel against cultural norms (well, yeah...) D. A wanderer (well, yeah again, but wanderers often took their households with them on camels in caravans...) E. A monastic (an Essene? or some odd Jew like John the Baptist?) F. Mentally ill (OK, that one pisses people off, but by today's standards, he gets at least 2 of the DSM-IV disorders.

The one thing he most certainly WASN'T is the fundamentalist-conservative prototype of Falwell, Robertson, et. al., a suburban dad with 1 wife and 2.5 kids who went to a mega church and was a CEO...Jesus is so far away from that! Makes you wonder where they get it from?? He lived an ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE for his time/place in history.

FUN topic, thanks ya'll!

[dsdrane]

Agreed. This is not only more to the point, it's more damning to the fundies' weltanschauung.

[Two, count 'em, two compound German nouns in this thread...so far!]

[ah, ah, ah!]

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Me too! you wanna go out sometime? You can lie with your head in my lap in a meadow by the lake and I'll read passages of "The Institutes of the Christian Religion" Sounds dreamy huh?

I'm not even sure how to take that ...

Can we make it the Heidelberg Chatechism?

[u-dog]

I love the Heidelburg catechism. Its my fave. so... the Heidleburg Catechism and a Movie then?


((actually, all kidding aside, the Heidelburg Catechism IS my favorite reformation document. That anti gay passage? IT was added later!! sometime in the 20th century.))

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by u-dog

I love the Heidelburg catechism. Its my fave. so... the Heidleburg Catechism and a Movie then?


((actually, all kidding aside, the Heidelburg Catechism IS my favorite reformation document. That anti gay passage? IT was added later!! sometime in the 20th century.))

Yup ... big thanks to Jack Rogers on that one (he's where I first heard that) ...

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by u-dog

I love the Heidelburg catechism. Its my fave. so... the Heidleburg Catechism and a Movie then?


((actually, all kidding aside, the Heidelburg Catechism IS my favorite reformation document. That anti gay passage? IT was added later!! sometime in the 20th century.))

Really it should be Heidelberg and beer, shouldn't it?

[u-dog]

I should have acknowledge that. Jack was my source for that information too. but the person who introduced me to the Heidelberg was Paul Capitz a church history and reformation theology professor at United Seminary in the Twin Cities. Very smart and captivating GAY GUY !!

[Progo35]

The problem with using documents found in 1958 from the 15th century to make the Jesus was gay argument is that no theologian in the world would argue for placing the authority of an extra-Biblical document over a 1st century document that has undergone the rigors of cannonization.

Also, the "disciple Jesus loved" reference could mean many things, it could mean that John was Jesus' best friend. I do think that one of the problems in our culture is that we tend to assign romance to love so much that we ignore the importance of strong friendships, "Phillia" love.

[Progo35]

Clarification: I thought that in one of the posts it said that this document was written in the 15th century, but I think I misread it, so I would ammend the previous statement by saying that most Biblical scholars think that the Gnostic gospels were written in the 2nd century, after those that were cannonized.

[Progo35]

That's what we learned in Gordon's Old Testament HLT, and the problem for me is that I have felt exasperated over what I feel is the secular left's campaign to discredit Christianity in any way that it possibly can so that it will not perpetuate the policies it associates with Christianity. The reason for this is that there has been a ton of controversy recently over students expressing their faith on school grounds, such as the recent story on a valedictorian that told her classmates that they could find salvation in Jesus Christ. Many people felt that that statement should have been censored to protect seperation of church in state, even though the statement was protected by the 1st Ammendment. That is kind of outside this forum's focus on whether or not Jesus was gay, but that is what I associate that position with. No offense to those who are open-mindedly exploring this issue: please go forward in love.

[Progo35]

I'm not saying that such policies are the result of gay rights, I just feel that they are being exploited by the secular left to the point that the issue has become too associated with one political position or the other.

[Progo35]

I hope that it's clear where I'm coming from here...I'm not trying to discourage this discussion or be offensive. As people above said, it really doesn't MATTER.

[alakazoom87]

So obsessed with sex and sexual orientation that you have gone this far?

Christ died for our sins. He was the perfect sacrifice! There was no sin Him. He did not lust for anything, which includes homosexual relations.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Does anyone know if some fun-loving person out there has actually started a "movement" (for lack of a better word) regarding this? I can't imagine more fun than rendering the fundies into a sputtering, head-rotating seizure by telling them their savior was a 'mo...or at least part 'mo.

It makes me giddy at the thought.

Originally Posted by keltic63

are you kidding??? heads spin at the suggestion that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a thing going on!

Originally Posted by alakazoom87

So obsessed with sex and sexual orientation that you have gone this far?

I rest my case.

alakazoom87, did you read all of this thread? did you understand that WE are not the ones who came up with this idea? do you understand that there are existing documents, extra-canonical gospels, etc. that indicate this may be the case? did you understand that most of us in this discussion were exploring a "what if?" situation?


perhaps I should start a new thread: "what if alakazoom87 is gay?" exhibit a: he likes hanging around the gays & lesbians at soulforce.

[alakazoom87]

Well, basically my foot is in my mouth. I saw that one of you guys said that it would be nice if Jesus was gay, and that threw me over the edge. Sorry all.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by alakazoom87
So obsessed with sex and sexual orientation that you have gone this far?

I have absolutely no "need" for a gay savior so don't get me wrong. Whatever kind of Jesus God sent to us is the one I want, BUT...

If Africans can envision Jesus as Black and Asian Christians can envision Jesus as Asian and Lutherans can envision Jesus as a blond blue eyed Nordic hunk? Then I can envision him as gay if that helps me to feel closer to my savior. And to do so does NOT make me obsessed with sex or sexual orientation. it just makes me human. (in the good sense)

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by alakazoom87

Well, basically my foot is in my mouth. I saw that one of you guys said that it would be nice if Jesus was gay, and that threw me over the edge. Sorry all.

Wow. Thanks for saying that!

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by alakazoom87

So obsessed with sex and sexual orientation that you have gone this far?

Christ died for our sins. He was the perfect sacrifice! There was no sin Him. He did not lust for anything, which includes homosexual relations.

there is a play out there written about Jesus as if it was modern day, located in Texas, the city of Corpus Cristi. In the play all twelve deciples, as well as Jesus are flamming homosexuals. It is a horrible play... that guy is so obsessed with sex and sexual orientation that he wrote a play. Just thought I should share... We think it's funny...

There is also the theory He was ET...