You'll need Kleenex if you read this...

[Baigle]

Well, where shall I begin? My nickname is Baigle, and since that's good enough for my friends it should be good enough for this. Ever since I was 14, maybe 13, I had known I was gay. Period. In my mind, however, it was always something I pushed to the back of my head because of the religious upbringing I'd had. Being gay wasn't something you told people; at the time, my parents probably would have taken me to the city gates to be stoned. My dad caught me on the internet, doing normal guy things, except that they weren't normal for a guy--most guys look at women, right?
We "dealt" with the "confusion" in my mind, and the whole incident was behind us. We thought. It was impossible for me to ignore the feelings I had inside, but thank God I'm a born actor, because I was able to convince my parents that I had it all under control.
Whenever we went to public pools, my parents were always concerned about the immodesty of the young women in string bikinis (thank God for sunglasses). I just didn't have the heart to tell my parents that it wasn't the ladies I was staring at.
About the beginnning of this year, I met a guy in college who was also gay. Unfortunately for me (damn him), he already had a boyfriend. Actually, come to think of it, it was probably more fortunate for me, considering the hell we were about to go through.
We went to a movie one night, and he loaned me a hard-drive of...stuff...that my dad found and subsequently handed over to the police. Thank goodness we had never gotten physical. After about a month of legal battles and talks with a private detective, I was able to keep him out of jail. My dad, of course, was livid.
But now, I might as well not even try to live out. I came out and am very open about my sexuality at work and school, but at home, it's like I'm living under a blanket. My dad even wants to try to make me go to reparative therapy. Thank god he hasn't yet.
Every day I try to remember: "If it doesn't kill me, it will make me a better person." Yeah, either that or seriously cripple me.
I only wish I could find someone who is more understanding of my pridicament. My first real boyfriend finally left me because he was tired of having to keep quiet about it, not being able to tell friends that might accidentally tell my parents, and not being able to call as often as he'd like or leave comments on my MySpace page and my Facebook.
All I want is just someone who can understand what I'm going through and love me anyways. But I suppose I'll just have to wait--and "make myself a better person."

[andrewlittle]

Oh, Baigle, you will find a lot of people here that can and will commiserate with you, talk with you, lift you up, and virtually hug you as the person God made you.

I am so very sorry for your pain - sorry that people who claim adherence to a Gospel of God's love can inflict such hateful and damaging agony on their children and others.

The notion that enduring this kind of psychic, spiritual pain makes us a better person is purely the rationalization of the unChristian, unloving people who perpetrate sins against God and God's children. They twist this idea into a justification for making other people's lives hell, and wrap it is God-speak so they can feel (self)righteous and superior. Makes you wonder what Bible they read, doesn't it?

Anyway, for now, you are in my prayers.

[Baigle]

Blimey. Thanks for the encouragement. It seems there are other pariahs of society out there, aren't there?

[Zerbie]

Hi there Baigle. Welcome.

I'm so sorry to read about the terrible time you are having, the struggles in relating to your family, especially your dad. You are SO not the only one - - - this has gone on with many many young people.

I see you are 17. Perhaps soon you will be on your own? As long as you live in your parents' house you will of course want to get along with them as smoothly as possible or your day-to-day existence could be hell. Sometime in the next couple years you may be living away from your parents, in which case you will feel much freer to express who you are. Then you can work on improving the relationship with your parents without having to please them in order to keep peace in your living environment every day. Once we're grown up and on our own, relations with parents can become much, much better.

I hate telling you to wait, since obviously Now is all you have now. But I wouldn't advise you to come out before you're ready, or to raise the level of tension in your home. So I guess that does mean, wait. In the meantime, this forum is a great place to hang out. You can voice your questions/concerns/problems here. There are all ages here, and all sexual orientations. You can hear from other young gay guys, from older ones, from lesbian and bisexual women, married people: it goes on and on. A great place for sharing ideas and stories.

I think it's great that you have supportive friends at school and at work. Hang on to that, and know that once you get on your own in the world, home life will be much better, too.

[BrentRichards]

Baigle ... Welcome. You're ok here. Many of us, myself included, can relate to much of your story. You're not some strange alien from outer space. You are who God made you, and no, not everyone understands or accepts that. I'm so sorry for your pain. If you run through some of the older threads in this "Hello" forum, you'll find some of our stories, and you may see some familiar themes.

Let me tell you, you are a strong and courageous young man for seeking out support this early ... I kept my "secret" until I was 36! You are taking your first steps toward a happy, healthy life. Congratulations! I hope our community here, and other supports you may find, will help you keep up your hope and faith in these rough times. It will get better.

Welcome again! Blessings on you, friend!

p.s. - "Blimey" ... are you British? There's a couple of us here who are admittedly "wannabe" Brits.

[u-dog]

This is a very welcoming and affirming place and we're glad you found your way to us. Zerbie is right. If its "perspective" you're after you have come to the right place. We are Gay, straight, bi, transgendered, Christian, Budhist, Mormon, Jewish, agnostic, pagan, atheist, married, partnered, single, teen-aged, middle-aged, old-aged, male and female in every combination you can imagine. AND we all get along even if we do like to argue.

This is also a place where you will be honored and respected for the Child of God that you are. You are not a "pervert" or a monster or a mistake or a sinner (at least not because you are gay ) You are what you were created to be -- a gay man. Zerbie is right (I say that alot, why?) When you get out on your own it will be way easier to make the decisions you need to make and to live your life authentically and honestly. Hang in there til then!

Meanwhile, make yourself at home here. Jenn, and Gregory, and Austin and a couple of the others are around your age, so get to know them. They will give you tips on how to survive around the old guys on this site. We old guys are harmless but pretty annoying. We say "You'll understand when you're older" a lot and you just have to ignore us.

I disagree with Andy (I say THAT a lot too. Why is that?) The adversity that you are experiencing now can help you to grow emotionally and spiritually if you are open to it.

Love and Welcome to the Soulforce Forums!

Dave

[Baigle]

Thanks. I always thought that forums were one of those thngs perverts did in the wee hours of the morning when they didn't have anything better to do.
To BrentRichards: Haha, and no, I'm not british. Just a wannabe. I sometimes find myself lapsing into fits of British accent when my inner Terri Pratchett comes out, and I'll find myself on the floor hours later with a Labour Party sticker stuck to the bottom of my plimsol.
To U-Dog: Who are Jenn, Gregory, and Austin?
To Zerbie: You're right. I'm trying to lay low at home and not discuss it, though he's making me go to a psychiatrist for "counceling". Surprise surprise, he turned out to be a "Christian Family Councelor".
So thanks to everyone for the support-it's great to have people like me who understand.
P.S.--Has anyone ever heard of Dr. Nicolosi?

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by Baigle

Thanks. I always thought that forums were one of those thngs perverts did in the wee hours of the morning when they didn't have anything better to do.
To BrentRichards: Haha, and no, I'm not british. Just a wannabe. I sometimes find myself lapsing into fits of British accent when my inner Terri Pratchett comes out, and I'll find myself on the floor hours later with a Labour Party sticker stuck to the bottom of my plimsol.
To U-Dog: Who are Jenn, Gregory, and Austin?
To Zerbie: You're right. I'm trying to lay low at home and not discuss it, though he's making me go to a psychiatrist for "counceling". Surprise surprise, he turned out to be a "Christian Family Councelor".
So thanks to everyone for the support-it's great to have people like me who understand.
P.S.--Has anyone ever heard of Dr. Nicolosi?

Welcome to another wannabe, then ... Love Terry Pratchett!

I failed to look up Jenn, Gregory, and Austin's screen names before coming here... but they're quite active in the forums.

I'm quite familiar with Dr. Nicolosi and his work ... not a fan (understatement), but quite familiar. Anything specific I can answer for you?

Have you been to this counselor yet? I'm sorry to hear you're being pressured/forced to do this. I think we'll all be happy to process what happens there with you. Still, if you have the opportunity to meet with someone more affirming, TAKE IT!

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Baigle

Thanks. I always thought that forums were one of those thngs perverts did in the wee hours of the morning when they didn't have anything better to do.
To BrentRichards: Haha, and no, I'm not british. Just a wannabe. I sometimes find myself lapsing into fits of British accent when my inner Terri Pratchett comes out, and I'll find myself on the floor hours later with a Labour Party sticker stuck to the bottom of my plimsol.
To U-Dog: Who are Jenn, Gregory, and Austin?
To Zerbie: You're right. I'm trying to lay low at home and not discuss it, though he's making me go to a psychiatrist for "counceling". Surprise surprise, he turned out to be a "Christian Family Councelor".
So thanks to everyone for the support-it's great to have people like me who understand.
P.S.--Has anyone ever heard of Dr. Nicolosi?

Oh dear - perverts? Wee hours of the morning? Nothing else to do? Oh boy am I in trouble!! (I post here a LOT, I think actually, I've babbled in the most posts of anyone ON this forum, hence the remark that I'm in trouble.)

I LOVE Terry Pratchett. Roll on the floor funny stuff, that. Haven't looked into what he may have written in recent years though. Any recommendations?

Jen posts here as Jennifer5. She is 16 years old. The sweetest human being I've ever met. Gregory has a French-looking login, like Gregoire Du Bois, I believe. Doesn't really post all that often, does he? And Austin posts under tpdncr4christ. He writes beautiful poetry. He just turned 18, maybe about a month ago.

Yeah, we've heard of Dr. Nicolosi. I believe he founded NARTH? Or is one of the "researchers" they cite? All I recall is that he has been shown to be untrustworthy. You might want to read "Anything But Straight" by Wayne Besen if you can get hold of a copy. It's a strong statement against ex-gay therapy, with a lot of background information on the leaders of certain ex-gay groups. I definitely suggest anyone considering "reparative therapy" read this book before making a decision.

You also might consider reading Mel White's "Stranger at the Gate: to be gay and christian in America." If your father would agree to read it, I think he would gain a lot more insight into your experience as well. But perhaps that's a conversation for later.

All I can say regarding therapy is: any trustworthy therapist will leave you the authority to determine your own self-understanding, free of any agendas asking you to "change" to straight, or to choose a lifetime of celibacy if you don't want to, or for that matter, any agenda urging you to label your orientation or identity before you are sure of it, or to come out before you're ready. Your important task now should be to finish the job of growing up and becoming a self-sufficient adult: not re-defining yourself to fit a therapist's vision of who you should be.

You sound like a fun person with a strong sense of self. Don't let anything erode that.

[BrentRichards]

Jenn is Jennifer5
Austin is tpdncr4christ

U-Dog ... help on the last one?

[BrentRichards]

Nevermind ... Zerbie got it ... Thanks!

[Baigle]

Yes, my dad made me read Nicolosi's book "The Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality," as if it's something you can prevent. And I found The other three people, thanks!
To anyone who wants a good Terri Pratchett: My fave book by him is one he co-authored with Neil Gaiman called "Good Omens" about the end of the world. Hilarious! Oh, and "Night Watch"; that was a good one too.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Baigle

Yes, my dad made me read Nicolosi's book "The Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality," as if it's something you can prevent. And I found The other three people, thanks!
To anyone who wants a good Terri Pratchett: My fave book by him is one he co-authored with Neil Gaiman called "Good Omens" about the end of the world. Hilarious! Oh, and "Night Watch"; that was a good one too.

Thanks for the recommendations. I will make it a plan to check them out for summer vacation reading.

Hmm, think I might look at Nicolosi's book too, lest I have too much happiness.

[u-dog]

Ah! A young person after my own heart! Two of my three sons are Terri Pratchett fanatics and can recite long passages from Monty Python's Flying Circus by heart in nearly flawless Upper Class twit accents.

I listened to several of Pratchet's books on tape while driving but had to stop after laughing so hard that I almost drove into a telephone pole.

[Baigle]

I can sympathize. His book "Maskerade" was a hard one not to stop laughing at, especially when you're reading late at night and don't want to disturb others.

[BrentRichards]

Nicolosi is a boob. That's one of the nicer words I can think of. So you know, every major psychological and psychiatric association has specifically and completely disavowed his work. It's his own personal version of psychoanalytic theory, and it's completely unsupported by any kind of research. Despite all the smart-sounding technical terms, it amounts to nothing.

I think Good Omens is my favorite Pratchett, too. Very funny stuff.

I was just watching the "Upper Class Twit of the Year" episode the other night ... I have the whole Flying Circus on DVD ... and the movies, and the live specials, and ... Python is fantastic. You may or may not know that Graham Chapman was openly gay ... not our best poster boy, as he was also a major drunk, and lived pretty irresponsibly in general, but ... very funny man, and a fully qualified and licensed physician as well. The world is the worse for losing him.

[alisaeyes]

I know what you are going through,,,I am still there,,if you don't say the words it will go away...but it doesnt....welcome to a great forum,,,these guys will help you alot...

[BrentRichards]

Here's just one example of the thin ice Nicolosi and his ilk are skating on:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo..._changing.html

[sjbouza]

Baigle, welcome. I can relate to your story. I too, at your age, had to hide myself in a deep closet. I was a wonderful actor. I acted the straight part for so long I almost started to believe it myself. I even tried marriage with a woman to make myself straight. But to no avail. My parents didnt know about my sexual orientation until just a few weeks ago, I am now 38. It took me that long to come out to them and be true to myself. I still am struggling with coming out to my father.

Parents, especially religious ones, can just be so hurtful. They think they are trying to help, but they are only doing so much damage without even knowing it. I am sure they mean the best and are doing what they feel is right because they love you. There will be a time that you will just need to tell them that you are gay and there is nothing that his going to change that. This is how you were born and no amount of reading, counseling, or whatever is going to change that. But that will have to be in your time. You and only you will know when it is the right time for you to really confront your family. There are a great deal of things on this site dealing with what the Bible actually says about loving same sex relationships. I encourage you to read them. Also there is another site that I found helpful, hrc.org. There is a lot of great info there too.

You will find a great deal of love and support here. Just be open and honest about yourself and feel free to be who you are here. Dont be afraid to lean on people here or ask any questions that you may have. If you need help with anything just bring it up and you will get some great advice!!! I can atest to that. I have found so much help here, and it is all out of love and understanding. There are soooo many wonderful people here. They have been a great deal of help and encouragement to me in my struggles. I really love them all and you will find that same love coming towards you.

We are all here for you, I hope I am not speaking out of turn for all of you others. As I said you are loved here. You are a child of God. Most importantly you are not a pervert, sexual deveint, in need of a cure, sick, or any of the other things that people call us. You are a normal human being, you just happen to be gay, you are just as God wanted you to be. Rest in that and keep that in your heart. Dont flee from God because of what others think or say about your sexual orientation. Rest in Gods love for you.

[BrianB]

Originally Posted by Baigle

Yes, my dad made me read Nicolosi's book "The Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality," as if it's something you can prevent. And I found The other three people, thanks!
To anyone who wants a good Terri Pratchett: My fave book by him is one he co-authored with Neil Gaiman called "Good Omens" about the end of the world. Hilarious! Oh, and "Night Watch"; that was a good one too.

I LOVE Terri Pratchett's books! Just finished "Going Postal" and "The Fifth Elephant". What I like best is that the books are funnier if you know some serious literature.

"American Gods" by Nei Gaiman was great too.