Reaching out

[NathanATX]

I've discovered a lot of message boards & various groups online for people who are "struggling with their sexuality." Many of them openly identify with Exodus or other groups.

Anway, what's interesting is that I've discovered I can easily contact the members of the groups and reach out to them one on one.

Myspace.com has a feature where you can click on someone's profile and "add them" as a friend. So I've been going to these groups and adding all the members to be my "myspace friend." And hopefully this will lead them to checking out my www.myspace.com/nathanatx profile and blog and thus to hearing some truth about God's love for them. And maybe they'll actually send me a message wanting to talk.

I've received 15 or so such emails today.

I want to see if other people are already doing this kind of internet ministry and if anyone would like to start doing it.

[SolInvictus]

Hey Nathan - great idea & thats awesome!

I've posted bulletin messages on MySpace, but I need to do what you are: post it in blogs too.

[Zerbie]

Oh Nathan 15 emails in one day!!!!!!??

I knew there was a deep emotional need for this kind of dialogue (outreach?) but I had no idea something like that would get 15 responses in a day.

Will you refer some of your new friends to our forum? They would be so welcome here. I'm not good at technology and don't have a blog, or I would make my nonsensical thoughts available to the community at large too, but perhaps it's for the better if I don't spew my personal crap all over people who are just beginning to find themselves!!!

I wish all the best to those many people. . .oh my goodness. . . . Here, send them an internet hug-icon from me.

[Joe Brummer]

I have been speading a bunch of time in some of the anti-gay groups on myspace and talking with them. I have been emailing one or tow and asking them to read Mel's take on the bible and homosexuality. I feel that the dialog is going well and I hope I can change a few minds from anti-gay to at least accepting gays.


Nathan, You are a great guy!

[Joe Brummer]

I know this is off topic, but I had to point it out. It seems the number 1128 comes up all the time for me. I always seem to look at the clock at 11:28, and it happen all the time. I send emails and get replies and the time stamp seem to be 11:28 really often.

I just realized that my last post was timestampe 11:28.....scary...it happen again.....I was born on 11.28.69

[NathanATX]

I went to some of the exgay groups and added all the members to my "friends" list. As soon as people started saying, "who are you, why did you add me?" I sent this email.

*************************

Hi there,
I was just now adding some people that were friends of a few guys who were on an "ex gay" group.

A major part of God's calling on my life is to reach people in the church who are either being judged for their sexuality or possibly being the ones who are doing the judging. I don't even know if either of those apply to you... you were just linked to one of the guys who is part of an "ex gay ministry."

But regardless... God's love for you is great and it is constant. Nothing you could ever do would separate you from God's love. And if you're gay, bisexual, or straight... God loves you just as you are, as you were created to be.

I want to encourage you that regardless of your sexual orientation you can have a life of love, integrity & closeness with God.

Be blessed and I pray you will grow in the fullness of the knowledge of God's love for you and for others. I pray the same for myself.

Nathan

[NathanATX]

Never give out your password or credit card number in an instant message conversation.

SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
hi
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
hi
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
so I was wondering, whats your view on exodus
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that's a big question
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol....well yeah, I know we will but heads, but I am not trying to do that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think exodus causes harm... to the church, to glbt people, to their families
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what ways do you think exodus uses to try to change gays
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
have you ever been to any exodus events?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
no I haven't... I'm considering going to the big conference in july
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i went there last year
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
so I don't have any firsthand experience... but I know a lot of people who have
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what do you think they do to change you
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
first they submit the premise that you should change
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
they kind of do
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
they say it is possible, not that everyone should
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
they never try to force anyone (atleast from the experience I have had) to change
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
phone call
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but if you go the conference, theres a chance I might be going too
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
ok
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
they build everything they do on the premise that gays should and can change... and that is a fault premise. Everything built on that foundation is also faulty... if not dangerous.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
you don't think they can't
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
No I don't. I certainly believe behavior can change. John Paulk changed his behavior... but his orientation did not change... and he was caught in a gay bar trying to pick up a man.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
the bible says its possible though
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
where?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
the bible does not address homosexuality. there wasn't even a greek or hebrew word that meant homosexuality.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah i know. I study greek an hebrew
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
it just describes the act
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
good!
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
right
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
it says men lusting for other men
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
ok... so if I'm not lusting after other men... but in fact am in love with one man
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
thats a question of integrity
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and it's not specific to gay people by any means
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
you weren't meant to be sexually in love with a man though
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
did you create me? did you ordain my life? there's no way you can know who I am meant to be. and I can not know who you were meant to be. we discover God's plan for us, our identity, or calling, etc... as we grow into our relationship with God.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what do you say your identity is?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
a child of God.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
perfectly and intentionally created.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I am gay
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but you don't believe the Bible says it is wrong
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
absolutely not... but this wasn't an overnight "realization," by any means
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i have never found anything to prove the bible never says anything wrong about homosexuality
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
ok... too many negatives in the sentence... not sure what you mean?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol...i have heard arguments saying that the bible says nothing wrong about homosexuality, but that has never perquaded me
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
I have proved every argument wrong
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
simply the bible says homosexuality is wrong
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
ok... that sounds like it's what we need to be talking about then
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, lets talk about that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
which verse do you want to start with
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
actually...
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
let me take a quck break
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
ok
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
back
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
ok....should we start with romans
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
probably the most famous verse
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
ok sure
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Paul's writings are the most difficult to untangle on this issue
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yup
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
so why don't you believe it?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
or take a different interpretation I should say
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I'm trying to find the actual text
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
Romans 1:26-27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
you beat me
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
even without digging into languages & context... some things seem to jump out at me as being pretty clear
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
"natural" is the operative word
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yes
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
is it natural for a straight man to lust after & have sex with a man? I don't think so.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
is it natural for a gay man, yes. And as Christians we're called beyond lust to love...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
paul simply describes homosexual behavior, he didn't say it mattered who it was committed by
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
but he did...
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
he said they exchanged their natural relations
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but who says that homosexual attractions are natural in the first place
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
ie, presumably heterosexual
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
There is nothing in his wording to suggest he even recognized such a thing as a "true" homosexual versus a "false" one.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Paul is simply saying that these specific people gave up their natural relations and exchanged them for unnatural ones
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but God never made homosexuality natural
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
if the unnatural relations for these people was same sex behavior, it points to Paul implying that, for these people, heterosexuality is natural
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
this letter was written to the romans...very big homosexual community. it was natural to them. Paul attacked that saying it was unnatural
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
the fact these men were "burning in lust" for each other makes it highly unlikely they were heterosexuals experimenting with homosexuality.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
This is what Rev. Dr. Louis Smedes says about this: "The people Paul had in mind refused to acknowledge and worship God, and for this reason were abandoned by God. And being abandoned by God, they sank into sexual depravity."
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
"The homosexuals I know have not rejected God at all; they love God and they thank God for his grace and his gifts. How, then, could they have been abandoned to homosexuality as a punishment for refusing to acknowledge God?"
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
"Nor have the homosexuals that I know given up heterosexual passions for homosexual lusts. They have been homosexual from the moment of their earliest sexual stirrings. They did not change from one orientation to another; they just discovered that they were homosexual. It would be unnatural for most homosexuals to have heterosexual sex."
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
"And the homosexual people I know do not lust after each other any more than heterosexual people do... their love for one another is likely to be just as spiritual and personal as any heterosexual love can be."

SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh thats different, every homosexual I know have turned from God
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I could introduce you to many who haven't.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i doubt it
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
usually what happens is people are told a message that God doesn't love them and they are going to burn in hell...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well thats a lie too
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
definitely
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
but the church is to blame for so many gay people being angry with God and rejecting their faith
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i agree with that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
let's look at what paul says right before these verses
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i know what he says
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i have it memmorized
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I don't doubt it... it got pounded into me too
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yup....churches tend to do that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
so what's he talking about here?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
the believe the lie, the are decieved by satan, the hide the truth so they can do their wicked behavior
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
God is plain to htem
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
them*
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
one sec
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i have to get off the internet now....lets chat later
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
bye
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
sorry
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
busy at work
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
catch you later

[NathanATX]

Never give out your password or credit card number in an instant message conversation.

SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
hello
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
hey
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
sorry i had to get off earlier
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
we had a good debate
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I thought it was a good conversation
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i hope there were no hard feelings, i don't want that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
oh no way
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
you're a great guy... you're friendly, intelligent and committed to Christ. I don't dislike you because we disagree.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
thats awesome, yeah, I do admit, both of us really try to pursue God
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
I am a big geek...lol...i read a ton of theology books. have you ever read books by a.w. tozer
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and believe me... I have met some ugly, hostile people in the past... you dont' have anything to worry about
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I'm starting to read more theology, but I haven't read tozer
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
amazing. read the pursuit of God, its kind of an aid for people who really want to chase after God, amazing book
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you think you are going to the exodus conference?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I'm considering it. I'm trying to figure out what my intentions would be if I were to go.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
They seem pretty hostile to people who believe differently than they do.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
they really aren't. its amazing to see what the media says compared to what actually happens there
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
oh no... I'm just getting that from the conference website. on the rules of conduct section
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh, what part bothers you
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
While frank and open discussion is valuable, disruption of the conference is not acceptable, including but not limited to: interrupting conference presenters or activities; distributing non-Exodus International literature; campaigning for alternative religions, philosophical or political views; on-site demonstrations; seeking sexual contacts; harassing others; abusing alcohol or narcotics; or shar
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
or sharing registration with other persons.

www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that whole block is pretty disturbing
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
specifically the "campaigning for alternative religions, philosophical or political views"
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
how are they going to define that?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Would I have to be "closeted" as far as my acceptance of my sexuality is concerned?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
like most churches... it doesn't seem like a safe place for glbt people
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
no...a lot of people who were there were openly gay, trying to see both sides
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
the reason they have those rules is to stop major disruptions, like somebody shouting when someone is speaking
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
But what if I'm clearly on the "other" side
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
there were people like that too
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
well, I wouldn't do that...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
then you shouldn't have a problem
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but if you like hook up with a guy, you would get into trouble
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
but at the same time, if I'm in conversation with someone about sexuality & faith... I'm not going to avoid sharing my opinions
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that's gross
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I don't do that...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol....its not that bad at all
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you want me to describe what the conference was like
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I don't know...my experience with fundamentalists is they are VERY threatened by a strong, powerful, committed Christian gay man
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well the conference is very open. its like everyone knows you either are gay, or your a friend of a gay person
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
um....the worship sessions are amazing
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
they have a testimony after each worship time
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
then someone coll speaking
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
cool*
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
everyone pretty much always knows I'm gay... not that I'm a flaming queen... not that there's anything wrong with that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I love worship
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
it seriously is awesome. see there are a lot of people who never wanted to be gay in the first place, and they are really broken, and those people really worship their hardest, it is so awesome
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think it would break my heart to see all those people seeking to change in order to be worthy of heaven
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh worthy of heaven....thats not what they think
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
then why change?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
they change to just get that much closer to God...thats why I did. and also the Bible says so. They say you will go to heaven no matter what if you have Jesus
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
if there is no fear of going to hell for the sin of being gay or acting out your sexuality... then why would there be a need to change?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
because we go by the basis that it is wrong according to the Bible, and God wants us to
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
but you see... the Bible says nothing can separate us from God... not sin, not man, not kingdoms, not our sexuality... nothing
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, nothing can seperate us, but we can certainly get closer
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
"the basis that it's wrong" and therefore if you continue in sin without repenting, you'll suffer hell as an eternal consequence
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that is a fear of hell
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and a denial of God's love
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i wasn't afraid of hell
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
then what was it for you?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
why did you start trying to change?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well verse in Romans. I knew that wasn't what God wanted, so I am like "if he doesn't want itm I am getting rid of it"
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
I admit, the first couple years I tried changing the totally wrong way
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
so if you were to come to a new understanding of Romans 1, you wouldn't feel the need to change?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
hypothetically
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well then there is that verse in leviticus, but I say the wanting was in me from the begining too. the Bible just confirmed it
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what do you think exodus does to change people?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
so what you're telling me is that you feel God wants you to change your sexuality because of the way you understand verses in the bible, right?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and that's the only reason
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but yeah, maybe sometime I will write out my long testimony...lol
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I only got that last msg
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what did you get before that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and that's the only reason

The following message could not be delivered to all recipients:
so what you're telling me is that you feel God wants you to cha...

The following message could not be delivered to all recipients:
and that's the only reason

www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and that's the only reason
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
ummm...i can't find that
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think we're having technical difficulties
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, i think so too
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
so what you're telling me is that you feel God wants you to change your sexuality because of the way you understand verses in the bible, right?

SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
mostly that, plus I had a feeling that it just wasn't right
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
where did that feeling come from?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i don't know. it wasn't my parents because they never talked about it
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
umm...my church never talked about it
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
our churches, families, movies, schools, etc... everyone sends that message to us
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
it was a subject that everyone stayed away from
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
the gay kid always gets picked on in school
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, well I come from small conservative town, and that subject was never talked about in el. and middle school. for me anyway.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
homophobia is in a lot of music, especially rap
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
there were 66 kids in my class
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i listened to veggie tales...lol...
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and beleive me, you didn't want to be the one everyone thought was gay
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well its like that in high school
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but none of that was present earlier then that
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but my wanting to change was in 6th grade
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
but even looking at less hostile things... like the absence of positive gay role models in our families, schools & churches... if they aren't there, then surely there's a reason, right? it must be wrong/bad ...
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and then you look at the kind of life that we grow up with everyone expecting us to have
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
all of our friends have girlfriends and are dating
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
mom wants grandkids
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
dad wants a hunting buddy
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
our friends want us to be the party animal, chick magnet, player
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i guess
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
It's completely understandable to want to be the same as "everyone" else... even if there wasn't any outright homophobia
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
lately though... I'm discovering what a blessing my sexaulity is
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I'm realizing that I can have an incredible, happy & fulfilled life
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I can have kids
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I can have a husband
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I can be successful in business & ministry
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
everything that I was told couldn't happen IS happening
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and that kind of hope is what young glbt people are starving for
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
you see, when you believe that God DOES love you, just as you are... then you begin to love yourself. You honor yourself. You discove your goals & dreams.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well God loves you as you are, but he doesn't want you to stay in the same place
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
When people begin to have the "peace that passes understanding" their lives reflect it. And I know mine does.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
see I have achieved all that by leaving it
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
what do you mean by that? "stay in the same place?"
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
Jesus doesn't want you to continue in the same direction you are in before you accept him
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I agree that your life probably looks incredibly better than when you were suffering with the guilt & shame of being gay.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
its not about guilt and shame for me
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
then how bad was your life?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
it was bad, I was almost suicidal
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well I was...not almost
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
suicidal!!!
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that's heartbreaking!!
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
why on earth would you want to die?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
satan decieved me. he made me think God didn't love me because I couldn't change
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i should really just tell my testimony
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i am just giving pieces
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and you don't think guilt and shame have anything to do with that?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i didn't care what others thought, I was like, I am not doing God's will and I have tried, there is no reason living
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i never recieved guilt and shame from homosexuality, but other stuff
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
why on earth would you want to kill yourself because of your sexual orientation if you didn't feel incredibly guilty and ashamed for it...
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
what other stuff?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i felt guilty then because I was addicted to masturbation
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
you wanted to kill yourself because of that?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
ok...story time!
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
in 6th grade, I was being bullied on because I was fat and shy. My grandma died, I started to masturbate to get rid of the pain. I became attracted to guys, but no one knew
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
7th grade, bullying got worse, teachers even picked on me. I got into porn, I saw the verse in romans, tried to change by my own strength
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
8th grade, I was worse in my struggle trying to change, my aunt died, everything was worse. I became suicidal
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
then when I was suicidal I found the exodus website
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
they had youth forums on there
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
your name is Peter, right?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
I registered on those forums, and I had to register my phone number too
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
I posted I wanted to kill myself
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
I got a call from exodus, and I talked to a guy named ricky, and he said instead of trying to change myself, pursue God
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
thats what I did
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
does that make sense
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
of course it does
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Peter, you've been through quite a lot
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, I never had a bf or anything, but I was in more crap then most guys
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and it sounds like Ricky gave you what you needed to hear... a glimpse of hope & love
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yes he did
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
sounds like that saved your life
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i met him at the exodus conference too
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yes it did
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that's phenomenal, Peter.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I'm so glad that God used him to reach you.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
and I also understand how the church treats gays to. I asked my youth pastor for help, and he ignored me. I had to leave that church
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Do you mind if I address some things in your testimony?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, go ahead
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
First of all, it's heartbreaking to read. The pain that we can put other people through is amazing.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah it is
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Everyone who attacked, bullied and abused you were doing things that absolutely did not match up with the word of Jesus "love God & love your neighbor" You're clear on that right. What they did was wrong.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yup
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i knew that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yeah
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
been there.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
But it's an incredibly lonely place to be.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
it is
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Especially losing family that you love.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
And in the midst of that there is a fear that maybe God is going to walk away from you too. Guilt, shame, fear eats away at you. You begin to do & say things that are unkind & unloving.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
You begin to compromise your values and integrity.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
It's an incredibly dark & lonely place.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
But what I want you to know is nothing ever changed.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
God has never, ever stopped loving you completely.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Even when you were sinning and hurting other people, God still loved you.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Even when you were angry at God, His love remained.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
You were just a child, Peter. You were being hurt. You began to believe the lie of the enemy that if something like this were true about you, then God surely couldn't love you.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
But it was a lie.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
God who created you and formed you in your mother's womb has always loved you. God has always delighted in you. I believe that God's greatest heartbreak is to see us suffer in the midst of "dark nights of the soul" when we begin to doubt His love.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i know that now, but then I didn't think that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I know.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
My message to you then would have been exactly what I just shared with you. I would have helped you on the road to emotional & spiritual healing. And I would have helped you see that God loves you as you are, gay or straight, and has wonderful plans for your life.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that's what I want you to know.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I am so grateful that Rick was there when he was... if not you might not be here today.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
But there is a deeper, more profound truth to this.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
I know, but I am really glad I went through all of that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
That nothing separates us from God because of Jesus. And that denying the perfection and beauty of our different sexualities denies the God who created us.
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I do have to go now...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
God did not create us gay though
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
then how did you get that way?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
me too
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
ok, more on that later
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i'll explain later
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
bye!

[schoolboi]

For several years I have had a strong draw to minister to people who have been deceived by the ex-gay lie. I constantly come into contact with people who need to know God’s love and acceptance in this area of their lives.

Living near Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University has given me endless opportunities to minister face to face with Christians struggling with their sexual orientation. Most of the first contacts I have with these individuals are online. The majority of them contact me first normally through myspace or other web profiles I have online.

I am glad that I have been able to help so many of them, but at the same time it is the most strenuous ministry I have ever been involved with. These individuals are struggling with strong emotions, concrete beliefs, and other extreme influences. I have no idea how to bring the truth to them in a convincing way. I know for me when I was going through the same struggle the only thing that could have ever convince me of God’s love was a very personal spiritual encounter. That is not something you can just create or make happen. When that kind of breakthrough does not come my heart beings to break. All of the memories of how confused and helpless I was during my ex-gay years come back on me like a flood. Sometimes I want to run and hide, or simply give up.

It’s easy to find people in need. My question is how do we truly reach them with truth? How do we convey the unconditional love of God effectively? How do we as ministers of truth not kill ourselves in the process of helping others?

[NathanATX]

Hey Corey... I totally know what you mean. I'm trying to figure out if I'm called to "triage"--like working personally with people in exgay ministries. In some ways, I think I'm really good at getting through to people.

But like you said, what do you do when they continue to choose suffering and abuse?

That brings me back to the question of "why am I in the ministry in the first place?" "What is my purpose?" For me, that purpose is to bring light & love to people's hearts, to help people become emotionally & spiritually healthy, to restore relationships, to call people into relationship with a loving God.

If I am to fulfill that purpose, I have to be responsible for my own emotional & spiritual well-being. I need to have clear limits and boundaries in my life, ESPECIALLY when it comes to how involved I get in other people's problems.

If I get drawn into the hurt & fear that people are in, I'm not going to be able to lead them out.

And leading is all about giving them the power to choose... letting them be responsible for their lives. All we are responsible to do is shine the light, clear the path, & invite people to join us. We can not be responsible for them.

That doesn't mean our hearts aren't going to break when we see someone who is unable to accept the love we're showing.

My pastor just shared about a time during the 1980s when he was doing about one funeral a week for over 2 years for aids victims. One week he did five funerals. The next week he was unable to get out of bed. He was just crying and crying.

An elderly man on the board sent him for one month to a lakeside cabin to begin healing & being refreshed. And when he got back to the church, this man insisted he get counseling.

I know we're going to try to be superhuman... it's what us ministry people do. What we have to realize is that we are human... and we have to take care of OUR emotional & spiritual well-being if we are to be anything for anyone else.

[Vanessa White]

Nathan and all: I first of all, want to say how blessed I feel for having found this website, or rather, for this website finding me maybe. In part, so that I can see what it is that all of you are doing to reach out, help, support, inform, guide, whatever- after reading your series of IM's, Nathan, what amazed me most about it is that this young man was hearing you, at least in part. He seems to need the affirmation badly. And, I am grateful to you and all of us that do that reaching out, that give what it is that we know and we have. But, it does come at a cost if we do not take care of ourselves first and foremost. For years, I have advocated and educated on behalf of myself, the entire gay community, and gay youths in general, for reasons such as misinformation, internalized shame, and high risk of suicide and other dangerous behaviors. There are so many times in my life as a counselor/mentor/educator/trainer, when I have to take time away from it all, or I would go crazy or be constantly, physically sick from being so rundown. So, the fact that you all are offering support via the internet, one lost soul at a time, is an amazing and selfless act. But, please, please take good care of your "selves", so that what you have to offer stays energized and true to you. God bless you for all that you do, and your messages of love of God and Jesus reinforce in myself how loved I am by reading what you have told this young person. Thank you. Peace and love to all, Vanessa

[Zerbie]

Reading this thread just reinforces what I've learned over the years - that there is a deep need for people to HEAR that they are loved. Especially LGBTs, we need to hear it directly from the people in our lives that we are completely loved. By God and by people.

Of course you must take care of you and not "go" into the "dark places" with the people you hope to reach out to. As all have been saying, it is critical.

I spend time wondering how I can be more openly available and supportive to members of our community. Anyone have any answers?

Considering the force of homophobia and the fact that there are still so many closets, I can stand face to face with another person and have them assume it is not safe for them to come out. It's happened several times. And to see another queer person wasting energy trying to stay closeted from me drives me insane, because I see them fearing to go into certain territory. At least that hasn't happened recently, but when I was in "the ordinary world" it happened a lot.

So anyway - thank you so much for what you are doing Nathan. I am so glad you've found a way to reach out to struggling people and support them. You have a very beautiful heart, and they are lucky to encounter you.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by schoolboi

Living near Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University has given me endless opportunities to minister face to face with Christians struggling with their sexual orientation. Most of the first contacts I have with these individuals are online. The majority of them contact me first normally through myspace or other web profiles I have online.

I am glad that I have been able to help so many of them, but at the same time it is the most strenuous ministry I have ever been involved with. These individuals are struggling with strong emotions, concrete beliefs, and other extreme influences. I have no idea how to bring the truth to them in a convincing way. I know for me when I was going through the same struggle the only thing that could have ever convince me of God’s love was a very personal spiritual encounter. That is not something you can just create or make happen. When that kind of breakthrough does not come my heart beings to break. All of the memories of how confused and helpless I was during my ex-gay years come back on me like a flood. Sometimes I want to run and hide, or simply give up.

hey schoolboi,
I support a ministry called heartstrong. it was started by Marc Adams. He was a student at Liberty. here's heartstrong's mission statement: HeartStrong is a non sectarian organization established to provide outreach to gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and other persons adversely affected by the influence of all denominations of religious educational institutions.

HeartStrong is also committed to educating the public about the persecution of GLBT’s and others at religious educational institutions.
heartStrong is doing the work that you're talking about. You may want to direct some of the people you speak with to this organization. I feel so strongly about Soulforce and heartstrong that these are the only 2 groups that I support on a regular and continuing basis. I also do some volunteer work for heartstrong.

while the talking points from evangelicals/fundamentalists may use the word "love" we all know that they are doing a lot of damage to the lgbt children of God. it's tough reading nathan's conversations with Peter, knowing that Peter just doesn't understand the God could love him just as he is.

[NathanATX]

SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
hi
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
how's it going?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
awesome...how are things going for you
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
unbelievable
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
why...what happened
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
lots of great stuff... the guy I've been dating is now my boyfriend I just scheduled a cool speaking engagement I'll be singing at church this weekend... and the song sounded AWESOME in rehearsal last night
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh thats awesome
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I just need to get my business off the ground and get accepted to seminary and I'll have my "to-do" list complete
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
you want to be a pastor?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yeah... well, I at least want to be prepared for that kind of ministry
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
thats what I am going to college for
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
cool!
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what college are you gonna go to seminary for
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
perkins at SMU in Dallas or Austin Presbyterian
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what denomination are you
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
MCC www.mccchurch.org
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
but I'm not sure if I'm going to pastor an MCC church... or start my own... or ???
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, I want to start my own church...but God will most likely have different plans
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yeah... same here
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I just want to be ready for wherever God says go
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah, i have been looking like crazy for colleges
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I met my boyfriend at Perkins, actually
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
my denomination is assemblies of God....cool
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
when I visited the school
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I grew up loving A/G
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and still do... I just ignore the homophobia and have a good time praising God
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I was in royal rangers for 13yrs
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol....i love how ag is a very worshipful denomination
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
awesome
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yeah... I loved the youth conferences
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and summer camps
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
awesome
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i am also part non denominational i guess. I just started getting into assemblies of God
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
my actual home church was non-denom
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
we have a lot in common...lol
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yup
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i am most likely going to a non denom conservative college
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I really liked ORU
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
it's not exactly safe to be gay there... at all
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh I was thinking of going there but its kind of expensive
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
it was awesome
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I owe a lot of money now though
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh did you go there?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yes
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
how long
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
1 yr
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what state do you live in
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I used to live in tulsa, ok
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
now austin, tx
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh cool....i live in michigan
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
oh you live in bush country...lol
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yeah... well, at least Austin is different
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
very liberal town
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
ahh....i live in the very conservative part of michigan
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Oklahoma is very conservative... I had to get out
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i like being conservative
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
well... in some ways, yes
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
but it's sooo boring
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
the main reason was the sexuality issue... wasn't safe there to be out
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
it totally is here in Austin
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
austin is a WEIRD town
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
lots of fun
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lol
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i was wondering, are you familiar with the conservative arguments on how people become gay
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
sure
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I talk to them all the time
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what have you heard
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
giving into satans temptation
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
not having a good father figure
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
it's all the same old stuff
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you not believe in that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
oh no
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
well, I should clarify... and say I'm not sure exactly how people become gay
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I've always been gay
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
my brother was gay
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
my mom had lesbian experiences
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think my dad
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
did
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think genetics contribute a LOT
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i really don't think genetics contribute a lot. i have done a lot of research on that
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
genetics may cause you to be more feminine, but that doesn't always mean that your gay
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
well, I think genetics are clear in my personal experience, but I do know gay people with no perceivable "upline" in their families
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think the real question is why does it matter?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
if they are born gay....can they change? if they turn gay, they can change
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Why change?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well if you believed the bible says homosexuality was wrong you would too...or atleast think about it
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
And how does the ability to change affect God's view?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I've definitely thought about it...
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
And I know you're thinking about it... so I guess that was just a rhetorical question
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
lets say if you believed for a second the bible says homosexuality is a sin. If it is a sin, God cannot create sin, so hecouldn't create you gay
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think you should distinguish between homosexuality and homosexual behavior in that example
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
both are a sin
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
so it could work for both
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
If God didn't create homosexuality OR create me with the potential/capacity/etc for homosexuality then... who did?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
satan
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
Satan is a creator?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
why not...we create things too...what stops satan from creating things
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I think traditional christian understanding is that satan is a deceiver
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yeah he is
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and God is the creator of all things
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yup...even satan
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but God gave him a free will
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
he gave us a free will
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
sounds like God made satan human?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
no...God made satan an angel
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
now we're getting off into a whole different subject
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
the theology of satan/the devil/evil is very interesting
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
yup
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
my belief now is that satan is a mythical way to understand how people make the decisions to sin and do things that are less than loving
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I don't believe in a literal devil
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
but it says so in the bible
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
yes... but there is a lot of myth and magic in the bible
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what myth
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
the creation story... not literal
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
why not
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i literally believe the creation story
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
really?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
of course
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
that kinda caught me off guard
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
why
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
you seem to have a fairly broad understanding of the bible
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what do you mean exactly
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I was just sure you would have already realized that some biblical stories were'nt literal...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what evidence do you have of that
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
ok... I put the cart ahead of the horse
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you believe the Bible was create by God or did humans write it
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
humans clearly physically wrote it... I do believe we can find the Words of God in the word...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you believe every word in the Bible is the word of God
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
in the greek and hebrew bible anyway
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
and just because a story in the bible is mythical or metaphorical doesn't mean the message isn't truth
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
explain that more
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
like the story of creation... Adam & Eve didn't really exist, the serpent didn't exist, God didn't create the world in 7 days...
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
However, God did create the world, He is the source of life... And even though we are not inherently evil, & born sinners, we do have the capacity to sin... Adam & Eve didn't exist, but God did create us for relationship with Him
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
well that is saying that the Bible has flaws in it
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
sure is
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
in a way
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
maybe more correctly saying that we have been flawed in our understanding of it
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i believe everything in the Bible is completely true and did happen, except if it is a parable
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
which that is just truth
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
the holy spirit stops flawed understanding
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
you're not alone in the way you believe
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i know....
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
my point is that *even* if... maybe especially if, you beleive that way, you can still come to an understanding of the bible that does not condemn homosexuality
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
no i can't
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
because it is plainly written there...in english, hebrew, and greek
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I know MANY people who believe like you do and have reached that conclusion
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
have you ever felt the holy spirit?
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
a lot of them are gay people... and sometimes they are so conservative with their beliefs they make me nuts
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
of course
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
what did it feel like
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
or does it
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I don't think it feels the same way all the time
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
how did you feel Him....describe one way
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you believe the holy spirit is a power or a person
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
how about God?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i want to know what you think just about the spirit...
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i know they are the same...but they are different too
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I grew up with the same beliefs you have... remember that, ok. I know what you're talking about.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
just answer
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
And I know lots of gay people who still believe the same way as you.
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i just want an answer
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
lol... sheesh
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
the spirit of God, the holy spirit, etc... for me... is simply the presence of God. Comforting, guiding, leading me... speaking to my heart, teaching me, correcting me... helping me see myself & others through God's eyes
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you believe the spirit is a person
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
like you and me? no
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i mean a personality
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
I relate to the Spirit as a person, yes... like in prayer
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
do you think He is a person....not relating him as one?
SAVE THE KITTENS! says:
i have to get going...its dinner time...bye
www.myspace.com/nathanatx says:
later

[NathanATX]

This seems to be coming up over and over.

Most people who are opposed to homosexuality have the core of their issues tied up in a very angry, mean, scary God.

[Vanessa White]

That does seem to be a lot of it Nate, GOd as a big, bad, vengeful entity. So, that would help to explain where the fear, and then possibly hatred and anger over gay persons or people having a gay orientation. What I started to think about yesterday, is the idea that some of these people believe, in the name of God and the Bible, that homosexuality is wrong, based solely on the written word. But yet, those same persons also ask us as gay persons to provide "proof" that being gay is not a choice, but rather innate or genetic? Do those persons take the written word of the Bible as proof? Maybe I am just kidding myself, but I don't see God in some angry, vengeful way. The God I connect with the most strongly is the one represented to me through JEsus Christ. ANy other thoughts on this???? PEace, Vanessa

[SolInvictus]

Just a comment: my church is currently discussing homosexuality and its interpretation in Romans for Bible Study this and next week. It is an ONA UCC church & we were discussing how the text has been misinterpreted and misunderstood. It condemns people who gave into "unnatural passions." Since homosexual relationships are natural - a problem does not exist. It is highly likely Paul was referring to the ecstatic pagan fertility cults that had sex and charismatic behavior in the temples.

Thus, it and other passages have been used to oppress and persecute us LGBT for centuries without being read in proper context.

[SolInvictus]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

That does seem to be a lot of it Nate, GOd as a big, bad, vengeful entity. So, that would help to explain where the fear, and then possibly hatred and anger over gay persons or people having a gay orientation. What I started to think about yesterday, is the idea that some of these people believe, in the name of God and the Bible, that homosexuality is wrong, based solely on the written word. But yet, those same persons also ask us as gay persons to provide "proof" that being gay is not a choice, but rather innate or genetic? Do those persons take the written word of the Bible as proof? Maybe I am just kidding myself, but I don't see God in some angry, vengeful way. The God I connect with the most strongly is the one represented to me through JEsus Christ. ANy other thoughts on this???? PEace, Vanessa

Hi Vanessa. I agree with you. I believe God is Love and Jesus did not preach a message of intolerance and hatred, but rather a revolutionary concept of loving everyone, friends and enemies alike.