EDIT: Jerry Falwell has passed away

[pnggrad79]

While it is sad when anyone dies, and I will pray for his family, he is not someone I am really sad to see go. He was a rascist individual, and put countless people through their own personal hell through his diatribes about gay people and his condemnation of them. I am sorry for his family for they must be hurting, but I do hope that when he reaches heaven, that God will show him the hurtful damage he did to other people and then forgive him as only God can do. In my humaness, I am sorry for his family, but not really all that sorry he is gone. Sorry if that is harsh, but it is real. And I won't back down on it.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

While it is sad when anyone dies, and I will pray for his family, he is not someone I am really sad to see go. He was a rascist individual, and put countless people through their own personal hell through his diatribes about gay people and his condemnation of them. I am sorry for his family for they must be hurting, but I do hope that when he reaches heaven, that God will show him the hurtful damage he did to other people and then forgive him as only God can do. In my humaness, I am sorry for his family, but not really all that sorry he is gone. Sorry if that is harsh, but it is real. And I won't back down on it.

You're allowed to feel whatever you feel. It's certainly understandable.

I believe that where he is now, he sees everything that happened, the good and the bad, with great clarity, and understands it all now.

[nmwolfboy]

i wish i could say that i feel nothing but sadness at Rev. Falwell's passing and the loss of any chance for glbt folk and others to reconcile with him. While that is in my heart, there is also a feeling of relief at the loss of someone who purposefully contributed to the pain and conflict that i used to feel.

Nevertheless, my prayers are with him and his family and friends.

Requiescat in pace.

[Dash]

I'm stunned. I agree with those who feel a keen sense of the lost opportunity for reconciliation. How sad. Yet...I do not doubt that we will all be reconciled to each other.

My co-worker and I were talking earlier about the relationship that develops between adversaries.

A strong reminder of the humanity of those with whom we struggle. I'm thinking about how many people genuinely loved him...how hard it is for me to love some of these leaders...

[BruceChris]

In the Bible, and many other places, I have encountered the teaching that we should never be judgemental of others. When I then synthesize this with "Love the sinner, hate the sin", I find that what I am left with is "Love the sinner, forgive the sin".

Of course, I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that is, unfortunately, a whole 'nother discussion.

I must wish Jerry and his friends peace, in this world and the next.

Bruce Chris

[dewdrop_world]

They're profiling him on the PBS Newshour now. I had forgotten many of the truly horrific things he said in the past. So it's hard for me to feel fully peaceful toward him now. I don't wish him any harm, but I'm not quite ready to embrace his soul.

Tony Campolo is one of the guests and gave us a fair shake - "I think he humiliated a lot of gay and lesbian people."

James

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by dewdrop_world

They're profiling him on the PBS Newshour now. I had forgotten many of the truly horrific things he said in the past. So it's hard for me to feel fully peaceful toward him now. I don't wish him any harm, but I'm not quite ready to embrace his soul.

Tony Campolo is one of the guests and gave us a fair shake - "I think he humiliated a lot of gay and lesbian people."

James

I saw the broadcast as well. Hubby pointed out to me things I had forgotten, one being that Falwell apologized for the timing of his heinous statement after 9/11 but not for the content. True to his convictions, Falwell never backed down.

Campolo also said the Falwell reflected the thoughts of many Americans. And while that is true, it is also true that Falwell told those same Americans what to think. He wasn't just a reflection. And in that sense, the incalculable harm he has done to straights, gays and lesbians everywhere will not so easily be forgotten- or healed.

[Joshuan2]

Well, what can I say? The man who loved to sow seeds of division and intolerance has died.

I express sympathy to his family during this difficult time for them. I also believe his church will quickly fold seeing that its idol has perished.

Let us hope that Jerry Falwell finds that his Eternal Judge is far more gracious, merciful and tolerant than he was in life.

This is not a time to cast stones but a time to reflect soberly.

1) I celebrate the silence of a man who hurt countless people with words that he knew caused division and pain.

2) I welcome the opportunity to replace such noise with the truth of Jesus, words of grace, acceptance, tolerance and community.

3) I stand humbly realizing that everyone will stand before God. Including myself.

4) I will with renewed fire seek to mirror ONLY the person of Jesus/Joshua to the world and not the corruption of a political/religious organization that has been shown to fail to regulate its leaders nor hold them to accountability.

5) I express the relief that I have shunned opportunities to use the corruption of power to enforce my agenda upon people.

6) I express sympathy to his family because we all cherish our loved ones.

7) I express concern that many will cry tears for their fallen idol instead of contemplating the weight and accuracy of his legacy in the light of the teachings of Jesus/Joshua.

8) I encourage all leaders of grace and tolerance to take over the area with the love and light of Jesus/Joshua now that an Asheroth pole of intolerant religion has fallen in mortality.

9) I urge all such religious leaders to judge within their heart their motives and to rid themselves of political corruption, abusive religion, power-mongering, hypocrisy, homophobia and all the other cancers that came to dominate his ministry and poison the pipeline.

10) I will consider everything a loss but to mirror the character of Jesus and as such will reflect that none of the political postering, name dropping, side drawing rhetoric will be of any use now. Jerry has gone as we will all go. Naked, alone and standing before a God who according to the teachings of Jesus/Joshua will judge us the same as we judged others. I wouldn't want to be in his place right now.

[HarmlessEccentric]

When I heard this earlier tonight, I was stunned. I honestly didn't know what to feel. It's hard to mourn the death of a man who I've learned to associate with hate and cruelty directed directly at me. But I can't celebrate the death of a man who loved God and tried hard to live faithfully according to what God wanted.

I'm sorry I'll never get to see him change his mind about us, and as his sister in Christ, I believe that he is with God now, where he can see his life without the interference of the prejudices that blinded him yesterday. Someday I'll meet him in Heaven.

[pnggrad79]

My sentiments exactly Joshuan. I have often thought how much better the world would be without the tyrants that rant and rave. The tyrants such as James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Don Wildmon, etc. Once this old breed has gone, I think I breath of fresh air will blow into the church, one of the Holy Spirit, which will renew our hearts and our minds and embrace all of humanity or at least all that seek after Him, gay, straight, bisexual, transgender and queer people who have been thrown out of families and churches. I look forward to it and claim it as done. Amen!

[u-dog]

cuz my Mama told me not to say anything if I couldn't say anything good. And I can't. I shan't weep and that is a fact. I believe that the man was evil and that his intentions for America were diabolical. As my brother reminds me...

we are judged by One who loves us... but we are still judged.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by u-dog

cuz my Mama told me not to say anything if I couldn't say anything good. And I can't. I shan't weep and that is a fact.

Oh U, you know how much I love U.

And the balance you invariably bring to the discourse. You're always so fair, but you also know what's what.

While we -- and our brethren & sistren over at GCN -- continue to pat ourselves on the back for how gracious we are and will, no doubt, continue to be -- and rightly so (the gracious part, not the patting-ourselves-on-the-back part) -- I have to say that I spit up a little in my mouth this evening watching the media's coverage of this great and influencial man.

The best even the conservative spinners could come up with was that he was "true to his convictions" and "that he really believed what he said" but what a pussycat of a man he was "behind the scenes".

Awwwww, did you know he liked sports...a lot? And those teletubbies...wouldn't you know he had one on his desk? What a card! Gosh, he was nothing like he was in public! He was such a nice man!

I'm sorry, but is it rude of me to point out that his words are directly, directly responsible for much violence, the extent of which we can only imagine?

And, um...yes, we can point to many, many scary men in history who were true to their convictions as well...and exactly when did this become a virtue???

I know. I know. The backlash will have its day, but, for now, I would selfishly like to ask the choir, simply, quietly: WTF?!?! Are these people on crack?!?!

I do pray for him and the clarity he no doubt now has. I pray for his loved ones. But my special prayers are for the people -- all of us included -- who have been maligned and are now asked to be gracious...and actually are.

My second most special prayers are for his followers, who, now somewhat keel-less, might have an opportunity their leader sadly didn't take: to see gay people as their co-equals in the body of Christ. I fervently pray that God's peace and understanding be known to them and be active in them so that they might grow through their pain to see the true work ahead for all of us.

Amen!

-d.

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by u-dog

cuz my Mama told me not to say anything if I couldn't say anything good. And I can't. I shan't weep and that is a fact. I believe that the man was evil and that his intentions for America were diabolical. As my brother reminds me...

we are judged by One who loves us... but we are still judged.

So .... hmmm.

[suzer1013]

I am sad for his family and for those who loved him. I'm sure they are feeling a keen sense of loss.

I am grateful to God, however, that he has been released from the hatred which controlled him for most of his life. What an awful way to live! I wonder if he ever truly had an understanding of God's Love?

I'm certain that he does now. And to steal a comment I read on another site -- I suspect Matthew Shepard and Fannyann Eddy were there to greet him at Heaven's door.

I am so glad he is finally at peace. Which allows us to also be a little more at peace.

May his family and friends be comforted in their time of sorrow.

Susan

[revtj]

Tony Campolo is one of the guests and gave us a fair shake - "I think he humiliated a lot of gay and lesbian people."

I was trying to think back & recall whether Jerry Falwell ever offered a repentant apology for his remarks after 9/11? My recollection was that he did, but it was one of those "I apologize, but" apologies which contained self-justification for the remarks.

Whatever the case, his remarks after 9/11 did severe damage to our community and validated a lot of the illogical tenets of the so-called "culture war." There is no way to measure the hatred it underscored and the violence it precipitated.

To be fair, if I compare him to the Apostle Paul, he comes out normal. I am just thankful it is not up to me to judge his soul.

I do however believe we must not let him escape, even in death, the disastrous effect of the post 9/11 remarks, but should seek to hold it up as a mirror to help America understand the irrational nature of homophobia.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by revtj

I was trying to think back & recall whether Jerry Falwell ever offered a repentant apology for his remarks after 9/11? My recollection was that he did, but it was one of those "I apologize, but" apologies which contained self-justification for the remarks.

Here's what I found.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/

LYNCHBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- The Rev. Jerry Falwell said late Thursday he did not mean to blame feminists, gays or lesbians for bringing on the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington this week, in remarks on a television program earlier in the day.

On the broadcast of the Christian television program "The 700 Club," Falwell made the following statement:

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'"

Falwell, pastor of the 22,000-member Thomas Road Baptist Church, viewed the attacks as God's judgment on America for "throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked."

But in a phone call to CNN, Falwell said that only the hijackers and terrorists were responsible for the deadly attacks.

"I do believe, as a theologian, based upon many Scriptures and particularly Proverbs 14:23, which says 'living by God's principles promotes a nation to greatness, violating those principles brings a nation to shame,'" he said.

Falwell said he believes the ACLU and other organizations "which have attempted to secularize America, have removed our nation from its relationship with Christ on which it was founded."

"I therefore believe that that created an environment which possibly has caused God to lift the veil of protection which has allowed no one to attack America on our soil since 1812," he said.

Pat Robertson, host of the 700 Club program, seemed to agree with Falwell's earlier statements in a prayer during the program.

"We have sinned against Almighty God, at the highest level of our government, we've stuck our finger in your eye," said Robertson. "The Supreme Court has insulted you over and over again, Lord. They've taken your Bible away from the schools. They've forbidden little children to pray. They've taken the knowledge of God as best they can, and organizations have come into court to take the knowledge of God out of the public square of America."

National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Executive Director Lorri L. Jean bristled at the idea that gays and lesbians had anything to do with the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon that may have left thousands dead, and demanded an apology from Falwell.

"The terrible tragedy that has befallen our nation, and indeed the entire global community, is the sad byproduct of fanaticism. It has its roots in the same fanaticism that enables people like Jerry Falwell to preach hate against those who do not think, live, or love in the exact same way he does," she said.

"The tragedies that have occurred this week did not occur because someone made God mad, as Mr. Falwell asserts. They occurred because of hate, pure and simple. It is time to move beyond a place of hate and to a place of healing. We hope that Mr. Falwell will apologize to the U.S. and world communities."

Falwell told CNN: "I would never blame any human being except the terrorists, and if I left that impression with gays or lesbians or anyone else, I apologize."

What I find interesting about his clarification is that he didn't actually change his view of theological believes for one second- he reiterated his original thesis- and was simply trying to have to both ways: keep his theology and be a nice guy.

[Daniel]

An interesting article on Huffington Post caught my attention. The writer was mobilized to become a progressive minster after hearing Fallwell.

I like his take on things.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-ro...-_b_48829.html

I could have lived a life of leisure in a pastoral setting in rural Montana, far from the hectic lifestyle of urban Christian political activism. Instead, in 1979, as a personal reaction to Jerry Falwell's announced Moral Majority Christian crusade against everything I believed to be true about the world, I made my decision to go to seminary.

~

Poll after poll shows that the conservative Christian movement is losing the struggle for the hearts and minds of American on key issues like gay rights, even though they have had a lot of victories in passing anti-gay marriage initiatives. People are awakening from their long slumber. The culture is recovering from a dangerous period ushered in by the Moral Majority of equating Christianity with gay-bashing. The religious right has splintered, as many, in the National Association of Evangelicals and others, see the dangers of global warming, Darfur, the global HIV/AIDS crisis, and poverty in America as Biblical issues that trump the obsession of the far right of keeping women in their place in the home and the doctor's office. A contemporary Christian identity is being birthed from both the left and the right that meets somewhere in the middle on setting a new public policy agenda that meets the real needs of our society, not some mythological strategy of gathering personal power by vilifying the most vulnerable.

Yes!

[Montanna]

"Christian identity is being birthed from both the left and the right that meets somewhere in the middle on setting a new public policy agenda that meets the real needs of our society, not some mythological strategy of gathering personal power by vilifying the most vulnerable. " I see this happening too. Conversation with the GLBT community is spurning this along. Oppression won't stand the light of day and we have a big spotlight. Thanks for posting this. Montanna

[kimmyd]

I, for one, am going to be honest about Falwell's passing: he did the world a favor.

He lived a posh life that homeless people believing in the same God could only dream of, and hurt too many people to forgive him for with his words and actions.

I do not miss him, and am glad he is no longer here. I don't feel forgiveness, sadness, or anything short of relief at his passing.

[akbdc99]

[QUOTE=sjbouza;29254]I wonder what it is going to do to the "Moral Majority"? I know they still have good ole James Dobson out there still for the Fundies. I just hope that the person that steps into his shoes will be more tolerant than Falwell was. One can only hope and pray I guess. I just pray that whomever steps into those shoes will see that God loves all people no matter what. That Jesus doesnt discriminate and that the Bible also teaches everyone to Accept one another...ie Romans 15:7 (NIV) Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. I think that is just as significant as any of the clobber verses.[QUOTE]

Here's a great article in today Washington Post on the future of the evangelical movement Post Jerry Falwell:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

What I find really interesting is the last part of the article.