Mel White on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360

[soulo]

I just watched co-founder Mel White interview about Jerry Falwell's passing on Anderson Cooper 360, and I'd like to share a few thoughts:

Overall it was an enlightening conversation. Mel talked about how he created Soulforce as a result of Falwell's rhetoric on gays; and how he later attempted to change the heart of Falwell until the very end. He also called Falwell "sincere" in his faith.

I must say I understand that as a Christian one must be forgiving, and it's also obvious that Mel was a friend of Falwell at one point, but still I was surprised by his almost passive attitude in the answers he provided to Anderson in regards to how Falwell had viewed him, and shun him out of his life. He made a career of vilifying the LGBT community, and I assume Soulforce. Yet at one point Mel was almost smiling and speaking lovingly of the way Falwell scapegoated the community, as if it was deserved!!

Maybe I misinterpreted, but I saw this as an opportunity for Mel to set the record queer, with firmness, not just pose gays and lesbians as perpetuals victims of Jerry Falwell. It's my belief that it's important to communicate strength in our convictions, and be unequivocal in our condemnation of the injustices which are perpetrated against us. If we don't believe it's not right, and communicate it to the American public, they will not in turn see what's wrong with discriminating against gays.

[dsdrane]

It's like being a Republican (I'm sorry, I'm sorry!) on the last Election Day, you're like: is it going to be all-Dem spin all night???

Yes, out of respect to this public person, the spin -- even from us, check out the threads -- is going to be all, er, friendly.

But joy comes in the morning.

The backlash will come, and the response to it, and the reponse to it.

Doctoral theses will be written of this moment. There is much to come. Join in...and be patient.

All shall be made plain. Eventually.

[keltic63]

Hey soulo, I watched it too, but I didn't get the feeling that Mel thought it was ok for Falwell to scapegoat us. Mel made it clear that Falwell valued gays and lesbians as a commodity; it helped him raise money. Mel also pointed out that it motivated the lgbt community to stand up against the rhetoric that Falwell preached.

like dsdrane has said, the backlash will come. I think many people will catch on and perhaps change their minds just by the sheer number of anti-gay quotes by Falwell that the media is broadcasting. surely, a good number will scratch their heads and ask why they ever listened to all that crap.

There is also a problem that his endeavors will now face, and that is, how do they continue to raise funds without their charismatic leader? Churches that are built on the personality of the pastor as the main attraction do not do well when that pastor moves on, either through death, or scandal, or resignation.

Need some proof?
Jimmy Swaggart
Jim Bakker
Ted Haggard
Oral Roberts

How about independent charismatic or evangelical churches that grow and prosper under the direction of the founding minister, only to become a shadow of their former selves once that pastor is no longer in that position? The university will survive. The church will go on, but with fewer and fewer attending each year. The propaganda organizations associated with the Falwell ministries will eventually collapse for lack of funds. Drive through PTL's Heritage village and see what's left. It's a ghost town.

[tdogg]

One by one, little by little the old fundamentalist beliefs will cease to be predominant. I don't celebrate Jerry Falwell's passing, but I certainly look forward to a new beginning, new leaders, new ideas and the continuing march towards equality.

I didn't see the interview. But I do think Mel is a soft spoken and kind person and that might have given the impression that he isn't as passionate as one feels he should be? Just a thought. I would really have to see the interview to form an opinion on his response to those questions. I just haven't noticed reading or hearing anything from Mel that wasn't for the most part even keel and considerate.

[Jamie McDaniel]

Larry King Live



Anderson Cooper 360

[Casey]

Im a new member - signed up last night when i saw Rev. Mel White with Anderson Cooper. I remember everything he said and i am so greatful that i watched that show last night. It has really helped me.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Casey

Im a new member - signed up last night when i saw Rev. Mel White with Anderson Cooper. I remember everything he said and i am so greatful that i watched that show last night. It has really helped me.

I'm glad you found your way here.

~

Just watched the two broadcasts here. Wow.

Dr. White. If you are reading this- I just want to thank you for all that you have done. Your commitment and courage inspire us all.

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm glad you found your way here.

~

Just watched the two broadcasts here. Wow.

Dr. White. If you are reading this- I just want to thank you for all that you have done. Your commitment and courage inspire us all.

He is right! If it wasnt for you i dont think i would have been able to cope with much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

[nmwolfboy]

Here's an article reporting on the Rev. Dr. White's initial reaction to the news.

-scott

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by nmwolfboy

Here's an article reporting on the Rev. Dr. White's initial reaction to the news.

-scott

Thanks for posting this.

It's been running through my mind all day how Dr. White's sorrow is the sorrow of us all, which touches him in a way none of us can appreciate, considering all that he beem through: his personal dream- and our collective dream- of having Jerry Falwell embrace gay people has not been realized, and that's a hard thing to bear.

[Casey]

I didnt know much about Farwell... But it seemed to me that he didnt even want to embrace anyone but himself... I wish he could have embraced us, like many people, but hopefully he went to Heaven and now understands us. I hope...

[sjbouza]

Thanks for posting the videos Jamie and the article nmwolfboy. I think Dr White did a wonderful job in the interviews. I dont think it would have been appropriate to "go for the throat" so to speak at this time. I liked how he handled the questions very much. He got his point across and I think that the people that watched it are thinking right now about all that he said.

Jerry has had so much problems in the past, as well as other like him, with shooting their mouths off before they really think. Like Dr White basically said in the Larry King interview, Falwell was a racist. He was against civil rights in the 60 and womans rights also. He has always been on the wrong side of the fence when it comes to things like this. He has always used his trusty Bible to back himself up and all to often HE HAS BEEN PROVEN WRONG. I think people are really starting to see that. Look at all the different states that are at least allowing civil unions now. More are coming. Colorado just passed into law and the Governor is going to sign, allowing gay couples to adopt.

Yesterday when I was watching MSNBC, Tucker made a statement that really hit me. He actually said, "gay (same sex) marriage is going to happen". I had to rewind the DVR to be sure that I heard him right. I see it coming and coming soon. It may not be tomorrow, but people are really beginning to see through the rhetoric of the Fundies. They are beginning to realize that gays are here and that we are just like them, we bleed the same blood. Also on Tucker, the Rabbi from "Shalom in the Home" was on there and he was saying that we need to stop worrying about same sex marriage. That we need to concentrate on the real things that are tearing aprat families and harming children, divorce. Everyone in this country is related by blood to someone that has been divorced...EVERYONE. That is tragic when you think about it. Now more and more people are becoming aware of gay people. I dare say that a great majority of this nation has relation somewhere down the line that is gay.

Like Dr White said, if it wasnt for people like Falwell and Dobson and the like, I dont think we as a community would be where we are today. They are the ones that mobilized us and got us to think that, "hey we are citizens too, we deserve the same rights as everyone else." If you look back at everything that the "church" has spoken out against, when they do that it just draws more attention to it. Look at Rock music and Rap. I can state one person in particular, Ozzy Ozbourne, the more they cried out against the man the more albums he sold. It was free advertising. Everyone wanted to know what all the deal was so they ran out and bought the album.

Anyway, I am rambling...sorry!!! I tend to do that sometimes. All in all I really loved how Dr White handled everything. I think he did a great job and did it just right. Like I said this isnt the time to "go for the throat". If he would have done that, it would have been viewed as an outright attack on a "beloved man". Not a good thing to do at this time. But there are things coming. I think Falwells death is going to have a huge impact on the Fundies, and not in a good way. I think they are on the way down. I see it in the laws being passed by states left and right. Their time has passed and now it is our time to rise.

Stand up people and let them know we are here and we are not going away. VOTE and let your voices be heard loud and clear.

[Casey]

The best thing about all of the voting is that Ill be able to vote pretty soon, and i definatly know which team im supporting! Who's with me????

[Don Gouger]

As a minister to the deaf I drew inspiration from the ministry of the wonderful lady who interpreted Thomas Road Baptist Church's Sunday morning worship services for years. I appreciated Pastor Falwell's support of deaf ministry. As a minister of the gospel who late in life came to accept his homosexuality as a gift from God, it saddens me to know that Pastor Falwell never came to understand that you can be gay and Christian. The founder of Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, Rev. Troy Perry, did not realize the wish that he expressed to Pastor Falwell during a TV program several years ago that he arrive in heaven first so he could see the look of Pastor Falwell's face when he realized that Rev. Perry, a gay pastor who reached out to and ministered to hurting gay Christians, had made it inside the pearly gates. Let me end this by saying to Brother Falwell who is surely looking over the ramparts of heaven: "We will join you soon, Brother!"

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Jamie McDaniel

Larry King Live

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...15/lkl.01.html

KING: All right, Reverend White, how do you react to your friend, Jerry Falwell?

REV. MEL WHITE, [GHOST-WROTE 2 BOOKS FOR FALWELL, NOW HEADS A GROUP CALLED SOULFORCE]: Well, you know, I know his family and I -- I cried for them. I cried for the church. He was a good pastor, a good father. He was a good president of the university.

But I also cry for my brothers and sisters who are lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, who have been victims of Jerry Falwell's anti-gay rhetoric. I just wanted so much for him to change and be able to say god loves gays, god created gays and god wants us to celebrate and accept our own intents -- our sexuality.

But he never said that. So I'm weeping today, because I've lost my chance to make a difference with him.

KING: Did you ask him to say it?

WHITE: Oh, many, many times, yes. He just looked at me strangely. He really believed, even though he was sincere, though he was sincerely wrong. But I couldn't get through to him the fact that gay people are good Americans, that gay people are Christian and Jewish and Muslim, that gay people are at the heart of this country.

He never could see it, even though they were part of his ministry and part of his student body and part of his church.

[video jump]

KING: [And Reverend White] is he going to be remembered as a pastor or a political figure?

WHITE: I think he'll be remembered as both. For the gay community, we remember him as a person who gave us voice. He mobilized us. He became the face of homophobia. And we have to thank him, because a lot of gay and lesbian and bisexual and transgendered people have marched, taken their own steps toward getting justice because of Jerry Falwell.

So I think he'll be remembered by the gay community as the worst person in terms of misinformation about us, but as a great person for mobilizing us for -- for justice.

KING: As a gay man, Reverend White, how could you have worked with him?

WHITE: Well, I didn't know I was gay when I worked with him. I thought homosexuality was a sickness or a sin, like he did. Then I learned, thank god, that it was not. It is a gift from god, not a sickness nor a sin.

Once I learned that, then I was free to go back to Jerry and say, you know, when I worked with you, I didn't understand that gays are god's children, too. And I need to tell you the tragic consequences of your rhetoric against us.

Of course, he was deaf to that appeal.

KING: And you had no inclination you were gay when you worked with him?

WHITE: Oh, I -- I was struggling with what I thought was a sin, Larry. KING: Oh.

WHITE: I've only known same-sex attraction. So -- so I thought what the church told me was true. But the church had told me wrong, as they were wrong about slavery and they were wrong about apartheid, as Jerry was.

Jerry was a real racist during the civil rights movement, you know?

And he changed. And last -- a few years ago, he got the NAACP award here in Lynchburg.

KING: Yes.

WHITE: That's why I thought he might change about us. Now, he hasn't. It's too bad.

KING: Thank you all very much.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Jamie McDaniel

Anderson Cooper 360

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...15/acd.01.html

FALWELL: I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actually trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say, you helped this happen. (END AUDIO CLIP)

COOPER: Reverend Falwell talking about the attacks on 9/11.

Over the years, Falwell spoke out against gays and lesbians repeatedly, calling homosexuality an abomination, among other things.

In a moment, you will hear from Reverend Mel White, who literally wrote Falwell's autobiography, before revealing his own homosexuality and trying to change Falwell's opinions toward gays and lesbian.

But, first, Randi Kaye looks back at Falwell and his attitude toward gay and lesbian citizens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP[S])

FALWELL: We talk about AIDS as the judgment of God upon moral perversion in this society.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He once called AIDS God's punishment for homosexuals. But now the war of words between Reverend Jerry Falwell and the gay community is over.

FALWELL: There's no way, as a Christian who takes the Bible seriously, we could ever condone the behavior of homosexuals. What they do is wrong.

KAYE: Wrong in Falwell's eyes, even if you're a Teletubby. Falwell never liked the looks of Tinky-Winky, the purple Teletubby with the male voice and magic bag. Tinky-Winky, he warned, was promoting the gay agenda.

FALWELL: Parents, be very careful what your children are watching.

KAYE: GLAAD, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, is just one of the many groups that locked horns with Falwell.

NEIL GIULIANO, PRESIDENT, GAY AND LESBIAN ALLIANCE AGAINST DEFAMATION: His comments about the Teletubbies just showed how -- how out of touch he was with regard to America.

KAYE: GLAAD's Neil Giuliano says Falwell's attacks were a violation of religious faith.

GIULIANO: Religion and faith really should be something that pulls people together and gives people an opportunity to live as one human family. And gay and lesbian Americans are a part of that family.

KAYE: When Ellen DeGeneres told "TIME" magazine she was a lesbian, Falwell called her "Ellen Degenerate."

He sparred with liberal politicians, like openly gay Congressman Barney Franks.

FALWELL: I don't hate you. I think just that you're a moral pervert.

KAYE: What some considered his most outrageous suggestion, gays somehow contributed to 9/11.

FALWELL: I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actually trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say, you helped this happen.

KAYE: Falwell later apologized.

(on camera): In the end, Falwell's finger-pointing may have worked not just for him, but also against him. Some gay rights activists say, by rallying his base, he brought visibility to the gay and lesbian cause, even sympathy.

GIULIANO: His views are being rejected by the majority of Americans with regard to the rights for gay and lesbian Americans. And, so, in that sense, it's good to have those people out there that are going to fight, because we actually are making progress, in spite of their efforts.

KAYE (voice-over): A fight they will carry on, because the power of Falwell's anti-gay agenda didn't die with him.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEO CLIP[S])

COOPER: Well, we turn now to someone who spent years trying to convince Jerry Falwell that his anti-gay views were wrong.

Reverend Mel White became friends with Falwell while working for him as a ghostwriter in the 1980s. White was married and the father of two at the time. When he later announced he was gay, he and Falwell didn't speak for five years.

White and his male partner founded an interfaith movement for gays called Soulforce, and moved into a house across the street from Falwell's church, and began going to services at his church.

Reverend White joins me now.

First of all, when you heard -- the moment you heard Jerry Falwell had died, what -- what went through your mind?

REVEREND MEL WHITE, GAY RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I felt sad. I felt really sad for his family and for the school and for the students. He was a good pastor, a good provost, a good family man.

But he was also so bad, in terms of his influence on the nation about gay people. So, I felt sad that the gay and lesbian, bisexual, transgendered people had never had a chance to hear him say, "I'm sorry," like the black people did in 1964. I was hoping for that, and it never happened.

COOPER: Do you think he would have changed? I mean, I know publicly you said you thought he might change his mind. You thought moving next to him, across the street from him, attending his church with your partner might show him the reality of -- of gay people in America. Do you think it made any difference?

WHITE: I think it made a lot of difference to a lot of people. For example, gay and lesbian people in Lynchburg were stunned and really surprised and happy. We had our first Out and About Lynchburg. We're going on with that.

But, in the church, I don't know. When we attend now, people recognize me. They say hello. But Jerry went closet. Jerry went silent. And I haven't heard from him in the last four years.

COOPER: There are a lot of people who would say that he hated gays, but then there -- you know, he always say, look, I hate the sin; I don't hate the sinner.

He viewed it, of course, as a sin. You spent a lot of time with him before he knew you were gay. Personally, do you think he hated gays?

WHITE: I like to say that I hate Jerry's sins, and I tried to love Jerry the sinner, right back at him.

The fact is, I -- I think he was really sincere about his feelings that homosexuality was a threat to the nation, really sincere that, by welcoming gays to this great country, that God would take his hand of blessing off this country and, thus, allow 9/11.

He was -- to call him a huckster is really dangerous, because he was a sincere believer. And that's much more difficult to deal with.

I don't know what he hated. I would say he thinks he loved us. But, in fact, he showed all the signs of hatred, and created a lot of hatred against us by his rhetoric.

COOPER: He never really admitted to that. He would always say, look, I -- you know, that -- that he wasn't promoting hate, that he wasn't -- that his words were not causing harm to gay and lesbian citizens.

You say that is not true.

WHITE: Yes, Jim Dobson, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, they all say, our rhetoric doesn't lead to any suffering and death.

Well, they're wrong. We have -- I have buried so many young gay people who have killed themselves from Christian families who have been influenced directly and indirectly by this rhetoric. And I have buried a lot of young gays who have been bashed to death by gay people -- by anti-gay people who quote these guys, who quote the Scriptures, to give them a reason, an excuse for killing us.

So, I think their rhetoric condemns, it caricatures, it kills us. And I think we have got to deal with that rhetoric.
COOPER: There was an incident I read about where you were riding in a limousine with him, and there was a demonstration.

WHITE: Yes.

COOPER: And he was speaking about gay people. What was it he said?

WHITE: We were surrounded by gay protesters.

That's when I thought I was sick and sinful myself, before I realized that homosexuality is a gift from God to be accepted and celebrated. But, in that limousine, he said to me one day: I just love these gay demonstrators. Without them, I wouldn't get near the attention I get. If I didn't have them, I would have to invent them.

So, we played into his hand, in many ways.

COOPER: You think it was, in some ways, a way to raise money? I mean, he needed to raise a lot of money every year.

WHITE: Oh, yes.

He raised more money off the gay threat than any -- than off any other single cause. Maybe abortion ties with it. But he used these incredible pictures of gays as promiscuous, as gays as child abusers, as gays a threat to the nation, to the family. He went on and on, and undermining the American values.

He said these things. He created us as a scapegoat. And then he said, now, send me money, and I will create an environment here in Liberty University campus where young people will be trained not to be gay, where they will get over their sexual orientation problems.

But I will tell you, Jerry was sincere in that, but he was sincerely wrong. And he did terrible damage to gay people.

But, Anderson, he also rallied us. He made us get interested in achieving justice for ourselves. Soulforce, I don't think would have happened unless Jerry Falwell had been so obstreperous about gay people.

We actually formed to visit his church to try to get this leading fundamentalist, this face of homophobia in the nation, to see gay people, and to see we're not at all like he says we were.

COOPER: Reverend White, we appreciate you being on the program. Thank you very much.

WHITE: Any time.

[revtj]

So I want Ann Coulter to come forth and admit she aborted their love child. Is that too much to ask?

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by revtj

So I want Ann Coulter to come forth and admit she aborted their love child. Is that too much to ask?

Who says they aborted it?

[BrentRichards]

I'd have to say that Mel's response was all about his real committment to this:

A Soulforce Credo About My Adversary

I believe that my adversary is also a child of the Creator, that we are both members of the same human family, that we are sisters and brothers in need of reconciliation.

I believe that my adversary is not my enemy, but a victim of misinformation as I have been.

I believe that my only task is to bring my adversary truth in love (nonviolence) relentlessly.

I believe that my adversary's motives are as pure as mine and of no relevance to our discussion.

I believe that even my worst adversary has an amazing potential for positive change.

I believe that my adversary may have an insight into truth that I do not have.

I believe that one day my adversary and I will understand each other and that if we conduct our search for truth guided by the principles of love, we will find a new position to satisfy us both.

[revtj]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...ls_funeral.cfm