Advice Please

[tpdncr4christ]

It is time to call again on my soulforce family, sorry I've been only half here lately, graduation and everything coming up. But anyways, I need some help...

So this year in the musical there was another kid, and I, just like everyone else, presumed him to be straight. Just yesterday after a rehearsal he pulled me aside and said that he was having "feelings" about other guys, he didn't say who so I just assumed it was in general, and he sounded really scared.

I know basically what I need to say, I've done this before, but this guy is just terrified, and he only approached me because he has no one else to talk to. Is there any specific approach I should take to talking to him? I don't want to seem to happy about him being gay (it's the thing to do now anyway, after I came out four other boys in our drama class came out too) like I don't want this guy to think I am trying to convince him to be gay... Is there anything I should say? Any advice from the learned wizened people of the forums? Any advice from the less learned people of the forum?

I'd love any and all input please, thanks a bunches! And please pray for him, he isn't quite religious, but I'm sure he would appreciate prayers. Thanks again,

Austin

[keltic63]

talk to him from your own experience. ask him questions about why he thinks he might be gay. assure him that many people go through a phase of questioning and that either way, his life will be fine. if he answers in a way that sounds similar to your experience, you can affirm his feelings. you can also assure him that he doesn't need to be in a hurry to declare his orientation. he's young and may need time to figure it all out.

it may also be true that he is definitely gay, and scared sh!tless because he thinks it means he has to live the stereotype. you may want to talk to that aspect of his fear.

I know you'll do a great job with this!

[Jennifer5]

I don't have personal experience here... but I do know one thing about you Austin, and that's that you have a way with words... you can make someone feel better about just about anything... I think if you just speak from your heart he'll feel comforted by your words

[BrentRichards]

Hey Austin ... first, way to be the kind of person he can talk to! Wish there'd been some of those around when I was in high school (but there weren't, we were all still Cro-Magnon back then).

Best advice I have is to talk little, listen much. That's most likely what he needs. In my experience "I think I might be gay" is just easier to say than "I'm gay" for someone just coming to terms with their sexuality. The first time I ever came out to anyone (in college), I managed "I'm NOT gay, but ..." Whoops. In any case, you can assure him that he'll know when he knows, meanwhile, don't panic. It might help him to know that there's no "right or wrong" way to do the coming to terms and coming out thing ... it's all on his terms. And, I always like to assure people that I don't "out" anyone ... the information is theirs to share, not mine, unless they say otherwise.

You might also provide him with some of HRC's Coming Out Project materials ... which he can access online (www.hrc.org) or which you can order in print form (free) from HRC. They're pretty good stuff.

If he's really really distressed (who, us, distressed, why?) maybe you can suggest some local counseling resources, just being sure you're directing him to an affirming source.

Just a couple thoughts.

[Zerbie]

What a great friend you are! He's fortunate to have you.

Just remind him that he's your friend whether he's gay, straight, or something else. Also, if he isn't really sure one way or another, that's fine too. Life has a way of sorting itself out in time, and he is under no obligation to label himself. Especially when we're young, we should take the time to get to know ourselves. He doesn't have to be or act in any certain way, if he is gay (OR not.) If he's sure he's gay and just wants to feel "heard" and supported, now he knows he has you. He doesn't have to come out if he isn't ready or doesn't want to - sometimes gay people get the message that they are supposed to come out, like they owe it to the gay community somehow - but if he isn't ready, then he isn't ready. Make sure he understands he's under no pressure to identify in any certain way, especially not under any pressure to come out to anyone else.

Other than that, the best thing you can do is just be friends, hang out, and do fun things with the rest of your friends. That does wonders.

[lydiam]

I just wanted to echo what some other people have said about listening. I would have given anything back then to have someone who I knew was listening without judgement or any particular expectation. Like a lot of others have said, he's lucky to have you!

[Progo35]

Hi, Austin,

I think that what the people above say is good advice, and I know that this person will be in my prayers. I'm glad that he has someone like you that he can talk to.

When you've followed the advice of the other posters, perhaps try to get his mind off what he is dealing with for a while, maybe by inviting him to do something fun with you, or by giving him a funny book to read, or perhaps one on calmness and peacefullness. Things like this can help him remain connected to the good things in his life while he is going through a difficult period of questioning, and may help to affirm his idenity either way, as doing what one likes sometimes helps define who one is in respect to various aspects of human existence, including sexuality. Warm wishes as you speak to your friend.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

So this year in the musical there was another kid, and I, just like everyone else, presumed him to be straight. Just yesterday after a rehearsal he pulled me aside and said that he was having "feelings" about other guys, he didn't say who so I just assumed it was in general, and he sounded really scared.

I know basically what I need to say, I've done this before, but this guy is just terrified, and he only approached me because he has no one else to talk to. Is there any specific approach I should take to talking to him?

Others have mentioned that you should listen. Always great advice. But I would add: don't assume anything. He may have feelings for you. And even if he doesn't, his feelings aren't abstract. Something, or someone, is triggering them.

And though he may not be especially religious, he may be terrified because he has inculcated someones homophobia, this making it his own. Which means there is some degree of internalized homophobia swimming around in his head. That's nasty stuff.

Terror means that he fears he will be rejected. Lucky for him that he chose you to confide in.

Oh...and use your gut. Honor your own feelings in the conversation. If you feel like something needs to be asked- ask it. Remember: he may be too afraid, or embarrassed, to ask you certain things.

[Progo35]

I second Daniel's advice.

[u-dog]

everyone has already said the good stuff I was gonna say. But I like to hear myself type so I yammer on anyway.

1. WIZENED??? that conjurs up visions of mummies and raisins! Yikes! You can be so cruel sometimes
2. How lucky and blessed this boy is that you were right there and out in the open to ask these questions of. God is Good! all the time!
3. Don't lose sight of what a privelege you have been given to be trusted with what is the biggest and most dangerous secret this person has. You have been honored. You might want to thank him and let him know that you consider his trust to be something precious (don't use that word - he might think that you're gay)
4. Listen and ask gentle questions to find out the particularities of his terror about being gay. As you know as well as any of us, these might include: fear of rejection, fear of hell, fear of homelessness if his parents are ass****s, fear that he will become something pathetic (some stereotype he has of what a gay man is like), fear of lonliness, fear of loss (never gonna be a dad or have kids).
5. reassure him that the world is opening up to gay people like never before and that he has choices out the wazoo, including the choice about when to disclose to others, who to go out with, what kind of life to lead.
6. One more thing: He chose to confide in an out, proud, gay, CHRISTIAN man. I'm not suggesting that you be an evangelical ass***e but don't miss the opportunity to witness to him about how your faith and the love of Jesus has helped you to love your gay self. This is a perspective that he is unlikely to hear ANYWHERE ELSE. I'm not saying that you should try to convert him, but don't be afraid to let him see how your faith was a part of your process of coming to clarity about who you are.
7. And that brings me to my last thought. When it feels right, share your own experience of coming to terms. What were your fears? What do you wish someone had said to you in the early stages of coming out to yourself? share that with him.

Ok ... thats enough. I will have your friend in my prayers. I will have YOU in my prayers that the Holy spirit will give you ALL the right things to say and to ask and to NOT say and to NOT ask (You should pray this too -- The HS has never disappointed me when I have prayed this prayer)

Austin, I praise God that you are in the world. You are one hell of a fine human being.

Grampa Dave

[tpdncr4christ]

just saying thanks, we talked about it, and he'll be ok, for now... he's not suicidal anymore... which is good... he's not depressed as much and we're gonna get him through this. thanks for your advice, it really helped

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

just saying thanks, we talked about it, and he'll be ok, for now... he's not suicidal anymore... which is good... he's not depressed as much and we're gonna get him through this. thanks for your advice, it really helped

I'm not asking you to betray any confidences here, but can you share anything from your conversation with your friend? what precipitated his crisis? does he have a family that may be supportive or will he be going it alone for a while. Be careful not to say anything that would identify him but it would be interesting to hear more.

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by u-dog

everyone has already said the good stuff I was gonna say. But I like to hear myself type so I yammer on anyway.

1. WIZENED??? that conjurs up visions of mummies and raisins! Yikes! You can be so cruel sometimes
2. How lucky and blessed this boy is that you were right there and out in the open to ask these questions of. God is Good! all the time!
3. Don't lose sight of what a privelege you have been given to be trusted with what is the biggest and most dangerous secret this person has. You have been honored. You might want to thank him and let him know that you consider his trust to be something precious (don't use that word - he might think that you're gay)
4. Listen and ask gentle questions to find out the particularities of his terror about being gay. As you know as well as any of us, these might include: fear of rejection, fear of hell, fear of homelessness if his parents are ass****s, fear that he will become something pathetic (some stereotype he has of what a gay man is like), fear of lonliness, fear of loss (never gonna be a dad or have kids).
5. reassure him that the world is opening up to gay people like never before and that he has choices out the wazoo, including the choice about when to disclose to others, who to go out with, what kind of life to lead.
6. One more thing: He chose to confide in an out, proud, gay, CHRISTIAN man. I'm not suggesting that you be an evangelical ass***e but don't miss the opportunity to witness to him about how your faith and the love of Jesus has helped you to love your gay self. This is a perspective that he is unlikely to hear ANYWHERE ELSE. I'm not saying that you should try to convert him, but don't be afraid to let him see how your faith was a part of your process of coming to clarity about who you are.
7. And that brings me to my last thought. When it feels right, share your own experience of coming to terms. What were your fears? What do you wish someone had said to you in the early stages of coming out to yourself? share that with him.

Ok ... thats enough. I will have your friend in my prayers. I will have YOU in my prayers that the Holy spirit will give you ALL the right things to say and to ask and to NOT say and to NOT ask (You should pray this too -- The HS has never disappointed me when I have prayed this prayer)

Austin, I praise God that you are in the world. You are one hell of a fine human being.

Grampa Dave

Dave, I swear, if you were single and in Pennsylvania ...

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

just saying thanks, we talked about it, and he'll be ok, for now... he's not suicidal anymore... which is good... he's not depressed as much and we're gonna get him through this. thanks for your advice, it really helped

The suicidal word red flagged me ... used to be a crisis counselor. Know that that's a secret you shouldn't keep ... if he's talking about hurting himself, you need to involve a counselor. You already know that I'm sure.

And yes, I did read that he's not anymore ... just be aware. If you'd like the "crash course" on evaluating suicide risk, let me know. Can never hurt to know.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by BrentRichards

Dave, I swear, if you were single and in Pennsylvania ...

You ain't so bad yourself !!

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by BrentRichards

The suicidal word red flagged me ... used to be a crisis counselor. Know that that's a secret you shouldn't keep ... if he's talking about hurting himself, you need to involve a counselor. You already know that I'm sure.

And yes, I did read that he's not anymore ... just be aware. If you'd like the "crash course" on evaluating suicide risk, let me know. Can never hurt to know.

Critical. I had no idea from the original post that your friend was anywhere NEAR suicidal. &$(*!!!!!

You do NOT want to take the risk of this: if your friend has mentioned suicide, you really don't want to think he has gotten past a critical point only to be devastatingly shocked if it turns out he should actually make such an attempt, or worse succeed. DO take this up with a supportive, trustworthy counselor. When someone is that severely depressed, friends, no matter how close, can be deceived and shocked by a suicide attempt from out of the blue.

Please drag your friend to a counselor if you have to.

[BrentRichards]

Here's the basics ... may be useful for all. This is NOT license to go it alone ... if in ANY doubt, involve the pros!

Intent - Are you thinking about hurting yourself ("active" suicidal ideation)? "I just feel like dying." ("passive" ideation) Do you think you might act on those feelings? ["I feel like dying" is lower risk than "I feel like killing myself."]

Plan - Have you decided to act on those feelings? What do you plan to do? When? Where? (The more detail they've worked out, the higher the risk)

Means - How lethal is the means they're talking about? "I'll hold my breath" is low risk. "I'll shoot myself" is high risk. "Take pills" is middle of the road ... depends on what they've got. Do they have access to the method you've chosen? If they've cited a lethal means (shooting, for example) that is accesible (I can get my dad's gun), this is VERY high risk. Lethal means that is readily available means higher risk.

History - Have they tried to harm themselves in the past? More past attempts equals higher risk for another attempt. A history of a diagnosed mental illness (depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc.).

DON'T BE AFRAID TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS SPECIFICALLY. No, you won't give them any ideas ... they've already thought about it.

If someone is thinking about self-harm, they should seek counseling and/or medical treatment, period. They can't be FORCED to unless they're judged to be an immediate risk to themselves (not your job to judge!). Often, it's worth asking someone: "Can you promise me you wouldn't do anything to hurt yourself without talking to me/a counselor first?" That promise can mean a lot. If someone won't make that promise, it's DEFINITELY time to involve crisis services immediately. If they will, still make plans with them to get help: "How about we call this helpline together now, and find the help you need?"

If in doubt, you can always call 911, and let the pros decide whether the situation is an emergency.

[Progo35]

Did you know that there is a euthanasia advocate from Austrialia named Dr. Nichols that supports making the European suicide pill available in the supermarket, tbus making it available to the suicidal teenager and anyone elese who wants it-those are his words.

I'm glad that we have good crisis counselors like Brent who will intercede on behalf of suffering, depressed people.