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#1
03-07-2006, 08:13 PM
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From a Student at a School The "Equality Ride" is visiting.
Dear; Rev. White, Jacob, Haven and other members of Soulforce and the Equality Ride.
I do not expect this post to last long as I have seen a lack of tolerance, on the side of Soulforce, towards the people who disagree with you. But I know my voice reflects the voice of many of the students of the schools you are going to visit. Let me start by saying I think it is a shame that you associate your selves with Gandhi and Martin Luther. Your “tactics” have little if nothing in common with how the acted. You profess to create an “open dialogue” and “academic integrity” yet you profess to accept nothing less then the complete acceptance of your ideology by the schools you visit. How does that create an atmosphere for these schools to trust you? It in no way does. While you believe you are totally in the right on this issue you fail to meet the people where they are to create a better understanding. Second, Luther and Gandhi never sought out media attention. Rather they let the media come to them because what they are doing was, and is, right. Your actions speak more of “proto-Nazism” where Hitler invited the media to his pre-party rallies so they could report his words and ideas to the masses and gain sympathy that way. I know this is harsh but I believe your actions further reflect this in Jacobs promise to only speak “favorably” of schools that cooperate with him. Third, speaking of the Assemblies of God, your actions are only “shooting yourself in the foot.” You blanket attack the AG, yet you fail to see how the AG really is formed. The AG is not one cohesive body, but rather made of and governed by autonomous churches. So attacking the AG as a whole is in line with prejudice in its highest form as you pass judgment on a whole group for the actions of some. Finally, I fear what you represent. I am ex-gay, I am happy being ex-gay and I feel this is Gods will for MY life. I understand that I did not choose to be gay, but I choose to life as God wants ME to. I emphasize MY and ME for the reason this is a choice I made and no one forced me to and I do not expect other gay people to. My school never encouraged me to attend or see an ex-gay ministry, when I made the choice for my self I asked and they gave me a few recommendations. Before that I knew I was a gay student at a Christian university and I knew what I signed up for. I knew I was free in the identity as a gay person, but I had to abide by the standards of the community, and I felt I was able to without and compromise of integrity … my integrity was compromised the times I broke the community standards and began to engage in same-sex relationships. So what do I fear? I fear you are only creating a stronger and deeper divide by your disingenuous actions in claiming you seek an “open dialogue” and “academic integrity.” I fear that from your adversarial actions the next generations of leaders in the AG, and other denominations, you are only showing yourself as our adversaries. Finally my biggest fear is you would take away MY freedom of choice to live as I feel best and called by God to. -Venari 
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#2
03-07-2006, 09:24 PM
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No one is here to take away anything from you. We are here to give you something. We are here to bring you a new view. Understanding. You may certainly live your life the way you feel is in tune with your beliefs. No one is interested in stopping that. We are asking you to find the middle ground that allows you, your beliefs, and allows us, ours. I offer you only one suggestion. Before you critique our actions of non-violence, please learn about non-violence and the six principles of non-violence as taught by Dr. King. The whole point of it, the goal: The beloved Community where we can all have our beliefs, but still live in respect of each other. In simple terms, you can believe I am a sinner, but you must respect my belief, that I am not. I would be happy to continue this dialog with you as I feel you have open a door to understanding for both of us. I am interested in learning how you feel, I would hope you are just as interested in learning how I feel. The goal of non-violence is find the middle ground that brings us all into the "beloved commmunty"
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#3
03-07-2006, 09:26 PM
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Very interesting post, and I admire your courage in writing here. It's easier to keep criticism to yourself, harder to put yourself on the line and actually talk about your feelings, needs and wishes. Kudos for that!
I'm not involved in the equality rides in any way. I don't know the tone of the events, I don't know how the speeches proceed and I don't know what kind of person-to-person dialogue takes place. So I'm not really in a position to discuss whether Soulforce is honoring the Gandhian tradition of nonviolence or corrupting it. I do know that when people's beliefs are challenged, it's very common to look for ways to discredit the messenger, through heated argument, questioning the messenger's character or any number of other strategies. You only need a few minutes reading user comments at beliefnet.com to find ample evidence of that! It's very easy to read suspicious motivations into others' actions or words, but often (usually?) those impressions are mistaken in some way. What I'm saying goes both ways, of course. Anyone here could put you through the same treatment, "Well, the only reason you say abc is because def..." which obviously is nonsense. I trust this community not to go there. May I ask, how do you think the event could have been carried out differently to leave you with a more positive impression? Media attention seems to me a relatively minor point. The world was not as media-driven in Gandhi's time as it is now, and I don't think I could say Dr. King turned the press away exactly. If everyone who held a press conference were a proto-Nazi, would we as a society know how to get things done? (On second thought, maybe it would be a better, quieter world.  ) I'm more concerned about the perception of intolerance. t's a two-way street after all. You see Soulforce as intolerant, and we see Christian people every day who behave intolerantly (whether they intend to be intolerant or not). Many years of hard experience have taught me that when people are pointing fingers at each other, mirroring each others' criticisms, there's always common ground hiding in there somewhere. If we leap into the argument without finding the common ground first, then the argument is pretty much a waste of time. What kind of common ground do you think there might be here? I hope you'll stick around and keep posting. Your message suggests to me that you do want dialogue on this topic. If you didn't find it at the event, perhaps you'll find it here. Welcome! James
__________________
dewdrop_world music for dancing · thinking · breathing · love · life http://www.dewdrop-world.net
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#4
03-07-2006, 09:43 PM
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Hi Venari
Dear Venari,
Let me work backwards and maybe find some places where we share common ground. Quote:
I don't know the rest of your story, of course, but let me say this. Venari, if you are sincerely happy as an ex-gay then I, Jamie McDaniel, am happy for you. May you experience love and the abundant life. May your burden be light so that you may dance before the LORD with all your might. I grew up Southern Baptist and fought against my sexual orientation until I was in my mid twenties. My closet door had triple locks. I never sought out an ex-gay ministry during that struggle because that would have meant I would have to come out to someone! I guess fear causes us to not always think rationally. Anyway, long story short, I reconciled my spirituality with my sexual orientation and eventually answered God's call to be a voice in that wilderness that was Southern Baptist's understanding of homosexuality and homosexual people. It's still a wilderness, I'm sad to say.  Those of us who are working to change hearts and minds about gay people often clash with our brothers and sisters who identify as ex-gay. I'd say that's because most leaders of ex-gay ministries actively try to defeat nearly every piece of civil rights legislation that would help gay Americans gain equality. Most also engage in deception by omission -- never speaking to the fact of all those happy, loving, faithful families that include and accept gay people. Venari, if you are happy, hey that's great. Who am I to say that your sexual orientation didn't shift. Although there is great evidence building to a biological explanation, the truth is we currently do not know exactly why a minority of guys fall in love with a nice guy or why a minority of girls experience romantic love with another girl. And then there is the existence of those that are bisexual. So there is still truth that needs to be discovered in this area. But what I do know for sure is this. Gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people are part of the world. Our lives and our love are both valid and good. Our capacity to do justice, love mercy, and walk with God is equal to that of everyone else. Equal. When we as GLBT people settle for second-class, we are actually making a comment on God's creation. We're agreeing that we are not good enough, not like everyone else God created. And that's not ok. Last edited by Jamie McDaniel; 03-07-2006 at 10:14 PM. Reason: fixed typo
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#5
03-07-2006, 10:21 PM
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Joe,
You seemed to jump to the conclusion that I lacked understanding of the teachings of Gandhi and Martin Luther. Perhaps I was not clear enough, I did edit back as my post was reaching one page in length. Also, I am more direct and I apologize if I come across as confrontational as I feel it will create a understanding where I am coming from. I do not believe there is any genuine connection between Soulforce and the movements started by Gandhi and Luther. I will concede there can be made a connection of GLBT people being delegated inequitable treatment by the larger Christian community. The reason there is not a genuine connection is Soulforce has a failure to take the first steps to peaceably reach understanding with the ones they disagree with. Your response furthers my point when you discuss the “Beloved Community.” Where you bring forth; “Dr. King believed and preached about the "Beloved Community" where we all could have our beliefs, including you, but we all respected those beliefs.” There is a disconnect that happens there, one which you glossed over. Soulforce does not demonstrate this virtue with the people they disagree with. As Jacob has said, in several interviews including one to a school the Equality Ride was visiting, is Soulforce will not accept anything less then total acceptance of their ideas. This presentation instantly creates an adversarial situation by what Soulforce has said, not what the schools have decided. This is seen in many of the colleges would allow for discussions with Soulforce to create understanding of the GLBT community as long as their right to believe as they do is respected. Yet there is a unrelenting stance that they are wrong and Soulforce is right. Which is where my complaint about “proto-Nazism” does fit, while that phrase is loaded it may be better to call the apparent pr tactics as Orwellian. The schools are forced with two options. 1. They can refuse to accept what is their perception of “extremist” ideology and there by have protests organized outside their campuses. Have the “protestors” attempt to gain access to their campus even though they have not been invited or welcomed. Finally have their named smeared to the media. 2. They can accept a ideology they do not adhere to avoid the above mentioned “harassment.” So Soulforce appears to make no genuine attempt to create an understanding outside the threat of harassment. From what I know, schools were contacted being asking to invite the Equality Ride onto their campuses. There by offering no chance to sit down and discuss. Yes I know the claim that the Equality Ride seeks dialogue, but they schools are essentially offered no choice as the ride is coming if they agree to the visit or not. So Soulforce creates an atmosphere for dialogue on your terms disregarding the feelings of the school. I know may students that would welcome Soulforce to campus to talk to students if they came in a less hostile manner then the Equality Ride, they came to present their opinion knowing we hold the right to reject their opinion after they present. But sadly this is not the case, and the Equality Ride is essentially hostile as my community of students rejected their coming to campus yet there is an insistence they will still come and despite us asking you not to come onto campus there is an insistence you will trespass onto out home. Concluding the actions can be taking as nothing but hostile as Soulforce failed to reach an understanding we would be willing to, more toned down then what the Equality Ride seems to desire, and finally your imposing yourself onto our homes … yes I view my school as my home, the fellow students my sisters and brothers the faculty our trusted mentors. Also as your statement as ex-gay vs. gay I think there was a lack of understanding on your part. I fully support GLBT rights, as cliché as this is, my best friend is gay and we support each other. I really make no distinction in the sexuality of people I call friend. As I said this is a choice I made for myself and I have never once suggested to a friend to consider changing their sexuality. Finally regarding my statements about Soulforces treatment of the Assemblies of God I am responding to statements made by Jacob. Granted many in the AG do not accept of affirm homosexuality, nor should they be required to. But within the AG there is dialogue that has the potential to lead to change and an outsider would not see these internal changes, conversely as it is an internal change, external forces can stop it. -Venari
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#6
03-07-2006, 10:38 PM
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Jamie,
I sincerely appreciate your kind words. Which, as an ex-gay person I have rarely received from members of the GLBT community. Let be begin by saying many people within the larger Church do not seek to delegate GLBT people to be second class citizens. Yet my complaint is Soulforce is not creating an atmosphere of cooperation with these people where, despite theological or ideological, differences there can be a “bridging the gap.” As I point out earlier the actions of the Soulforce and the Equality Ride are being viewed as hostile and being an attack. As a previous poster responded that are our, my schools, responsibility to reconcile. But if we feel were being attacked why should we force reconsideration on our part when it’s the presentation by Soulforce that led us to feel this way. Even though I no longer identity as being gay I remain a strong ally to GLBT equality in my school and denomination. But while I would normally support Soulforce visiting my school I feel attacked by the threat that since we do not agree with the Equality Rides chosen method of presentation there is an insistence to intrude upon our lives and disrespect for our beliefs … mostly this is seen in the statements that they will come on to campus at the risk of being arrested for trespassing. -Venari
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#7
03-07-2006, 11:04 PM
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Soulforce is just like many other groups... we may not have the right approach to things, we're just doing the best we know how. I don't know, but sometimes for some of us it's more personal then anything else.... sometimes we need to do things just so we personal feel like we're worth something and so we do... many of the people here probably don't agree with me but I don't know
__________________
"What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?"
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#8
03-08-2006, 02:43 AM
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Venari et al ..
This has been one of the most genuine, and interesting, threads I've read on here. Venari, I want to commend your honesty and clarity in posting what you did. You clearly felt very strongly that the Equality Ride (in which I should say I am not involved) is misguided in its tactics. Correct me if I am wrong, but I also detected some level of frustration -- even anger -- in what you originally posted. Listening to you with care, I can understand why you feel this way. You clearly identify very strongly with your College and your faith (which I am going to assume is A of G). You also identify as ex-gay ... which, as you and others have implied, is probably harder in some ways than identifying as gay. Moreover, as you indicated, you personally -- despite your affiliation and college community -- support gay and lesbian civil rights. What this adds up for me is one incredibly stressful situation .... Some of what you originally posted was clearly overstatement or incorrect, and you have graciously modified your original statements in some ways, and I appreciate that. It is a testament to you and an example to the rest of us. Also, on some matters of opinion (like how similar are the philosophies of Gandhi/King and SF), reasonable people can disagree. The questions I have for you -- and I mean them in a spirit of gentleness and invitation -- are these: First, let's assume that everything you say about the ride and SoulForce is true ... that SF's tactics are divisive and ineffective, that SF is a media-hound, and not really following in the footsteps of Gandhi/King ... etc ... all of that. ** What can you, as a member of a community that discriminates against, harms and represses God's gay and lesbian children tell us about why your community does that, and do you think it's ethically acceptable and in the spirit of how God created us all? Help me understand this about your college and the A of G. ** I would like to hear your response to the following two quotations of Dr. King: "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -MLK -- Do you feel as though injustice is occurring at your campus or in your community? If so, what should be done about it? "When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative." -MLK -- In particular, do you think it is wrong for gay and lesbian people to be accepted fully in your community? I ask you these questions not because I am trying to win any kind of argument with you, but rather because I would genuinely like to hear the answers. Your answers to questions like these help me to understand my own place on these issues ... I would also be more than willing to answer any questions you have for me. Doing so increases my own understanding. God bless you Venari, and god bless your community and college as well. May you be filled with God's spirit and live your life according to his moving word inside of you. May we all speak the truth in love one another. -Matt
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#9
03-08-2006, 02:53 AM
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equality Ride
So yeah, i'm new to all of this so please forgive my forwardness as I'm not good with softening my responses.
****Disclaimer***** What i'm about to share does not represent the views of soulforce or equalride ministries, but it's my own opinion and experience. ******Disclaimer********** Hey Venari, I also don't know much about equality ride and not too much about Ghandi but when it comes to the values and beliefs I would like to think that I know what they are and how the soulforce ministry align with Dr. King's values. The basic primise of the movement that he lead, supported and shared the same values was that we as the human race should not be using the thiings that are God given such as race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, complextion and other things, to divide, seperate, belittle, discriminate, or make any human feel less than human. It was a moment that many gave their lives and freedom up for. They did protests and did what was necessary in a nonviolent way to show that change needed to be made. Lots of them were thrown in jail and many murdered in cold blood. The civil rights movement did not compromise with the force that opposed it. It demonstrated with confidence, hope and the power of God to see change happen. You see, equal rights is not something that can be compromised. if you don't believe in equal rights, your completely wrong when it comes to that particular matter. There is not a movement that exists that does not believe that what they have to offer is something that is lacking in other organizations. This is what distiguishes the uniquness of different movements and that is not necessarily wrong and should not be seen as a threat. As far as the whole media seeking attention comment, I'm not sure if that's true, but I know that my school posted something like that, and so I would ask those who run the equality ride movement their motives instead of just automatically believing what you hear. Me being a memeber of a conservative school (liberty university), went though many years of exgay ministry(exodus ministry international and freedom ministries) i'm aware of how they portray the gay community and all the lies, backbitting, and close mindedness that goes on. On the subject of being open minded, I believe that my school likes to give an appearance of it so that it "looks good" for political reasons, but the reality is that my school is as open as a closed can of worms. When you have two views that are in direct conflict, they can't co-exist and while i only represent my own opinion and relationship with Christ, I think that no one has it completely right but the gay christian community is more open than the exgay and straight christian community respectively. As much as I believe that our sexual orientation is God given whether you see it as gay or straight or whatever, I totally respect your choice. I pray that the majority community would also respect my choice to be gay. The funny thing about it all if that you being exgay would totally be welcome at any gay affirming church but i'm not sure if I would be welcomed at your church as an open gay man. Eventhough it's not politically correct in the christian community to out right say hurtful things to people who are gay and christian, the body language says enough. I'm glad that out of all the ex-gay that i have met, including people like mike haley and melissa fryrear, you are the first that has ever said that they are happy being exgay.
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#10
03-08-2006, 08:23 AM
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But if we could be transported back in time to the 1950's and 60's during the civil rights movement, we would see something much different. It was said in another thread that when Dr. King was assassinated, he was probably the most hated man in America. And those that didn't hate him sharply disagreed with his tactics. Opinion sections of newspapers were filled with letters to the editor. It was often the same message, professing a belief in "fair treatment for negroes," but denouncing the methods of black activists and their white allies. To me, it seems in most struggles for equality, there emerges a strange desire among conservatives and moderates to make sure the oppressor's feelings are in no way hurt by the oppressed's demand for fairness. I feel this is very much upside down.
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#11
03-08-2006, 09:11 AM
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clarification
This is a really great thread. Thank you, Venari for starting it. I went to ORU. Though I knew I was gay, I had no problem living by the "honor code." I do know if anyone had found out I was gay, I would have been expelled. I saw it happen to friends.
Jamie, It sounds like there is some misinformation about what actually happens on the equality ride. Could you help clarify some things? -How do the schools know the bus is coming? -What does the Equality Ride ask for? A meeting, lunch, a panel discussion, an opportunity to talk with students, hand out materials? Is it possible the school officials receive the communication from the Equality Ride and then tell the student body something incorrect, like "they've given us two choices. Accept their ideology or they will protest." It sounds like the student bodies might be victims of manipulation from their school officials. Nathan
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#12
03-08-2006, 11:45 AM
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Re: clarification
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#13
03-08-2006, 11:56 AM
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I think that as long as you clarify what you are saying as being your personal experience, and not as a recommendation for others to follow, only the closed-minded will have a serious problem with you. I have no problem with someone who was always same-sex attracted suddenly finding happiness in a straight relationship. It's pretty much exactly what happened to me, so we have something in common. As far as the Equality Rides - I really don't know anything about them, so can't address that issue.
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#14
03-08-2006, 12:07 PM
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 On a side note, obviously we need to take a look at how we can better inform Soulforce folks who are not directly involved in a project about what is going on.
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#15
03-08-2006, 01:03 PM
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Hi Venari
I would like to say welcome to the forums of Soulforce, and glad that you came back to discuss/clarify and express your concerns. I agree with many of the previous posts that this dialogue has been interesting and helpful in many ways for me, as a person and as an active participant on Soulforce threads.
I have to say, frankly, that I have never met a person who self-identified as ex-gay, and I believe it takes a great deal of courage and self-love to state that and feel good about it. I also feel quite sad that treatment of you as an ex-gay person by members of the gay community is unfair, and needless to say, we are not all like that in terms of how we treat others that live their lives in a different way than our own. I would agree with what others on this thread have said, that whatever feedback you could offer to assist Soulforce or its activities in possibly going about things in a different way could be helpful at least. I am not directly involved in the Equality RIdes, but I have to say, I loved the idea of it, because of the activity of taking the message to communities where, even if not well received, may need to be heard by some members of your school community that you may not even be aware of. Even though your school may take an official position that they feel they have no choice but to allow Soulforce in, the bottom line is, they do have a choice. But, if our presence can help one Christian student at your school who is LGBT feel not so alone, feel loved by God and embraced by persons representing religious beliefs, than I think the school stop is well worth it. Even when people say that they want to be able to discuss differences between them, the physical presence of the differences can be quite uncomfortable. I am glad that you support your gay friends, and I am glad that you are supportive of the Gay community at large. The bottom line is, that we don't get that support from much of the Christian communities, of all denominations, and as a lesbian person, I believe that I am as loved by Jesus for who I am as many of them do. I do not view myself as a sinner in the eyes of God, or as flawed in some way. If we encounter persons with those views, we may not change their minds. BUt, SOulforce has received letters from students at some Christian colleges in this country, as well as military academies, who support our message, although silently, or who are gay themselves and feel trapped and alone. I don't think that peaceful and nonviolent resistance means that persons will not disagree or even argue. I know that if a person does not view me favorably for being gay, in the name of God, I just don't want to be disrespected for that. A person can have their opinion, but not be mean to others in the name of that opinion. Anyway, I hope that we can continue to dialogue about this and maybe I can have a better understanding of where you are coming from as well. Thanks for being here and for your passion about this. Peace, Vanessa 
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#16
03-08-2006, 01:51 PM
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Civil Disobedience
I should add that, yes, if school officials refuse to allow some form of dialogue on campus, then the Soulforce Equality Riders will peacefully walk onto campus grounds, even if theatened with arrest. The purpose of such a civil disobedience would be to bring national and local attention via the media to the discrimination that GLBT students at that school face. Such might be the case with the Equality Ride's first stop this Friday at Liberty University.
Campus Access Refused By Liberty University: Equality Riders Vow To Enter Grounds The majority of schools, however, are not threatening arrest.
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#17
03-08-2006, 01:54 PM
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Hi Venari. Thanks for making us stop and think! I'm most of the way through MLK's autobiography at the moment, and some of your statements really reminded me of Dr. King's points about the movement.
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Dr. King said that the entire point of direct action is to create a crisis that cannot be ignored. His actions were equally "hostile" in that they invaded white-only spaces (lunch counters, stores, etc) despite both law and custom telling them to keep out. If they had waited for an invitation to come in, they'd still be waiting today. Instead, they trespassed. Flagrantly and repeatedly. The goal of the crisis created by direct action (again, paraphrasing MLK) is to bring about open, honest negotiations. Your community of students rejected the Ride's request to come on campus and dialogue. The Ride is going to create a crisis, if needed, to bring those negotiations about. They will make their voices heard, come heaven or high water, but all they ask is that you listen. They promise to listen to you in turn. Accept their challenge. If your school is in the right with its policies regarding homosexuality, there is nothing to lose by sitting down to explain the truth to these Riders. Face the crisis they bring with the same spirit of willing suffering that the Riders face the threats of jail. Counter nonviolent direct action with nonviolent direct action of your own. I'll be very curious to see what actually happens when the Ride shows up at your school -- I'd greatly appreciate if you could post your observations and opinions when the time comes. Good wishes, always. Michael
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#18
03-08-2006, 10:13 PM
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A response to Matt's questions.
"**What can you, as a member of a community that discriminates against, harms and represses God's gay and lesbian children tell us about why your community does that, and do you think it's ethically acceptable and in the spirit of how God created us all? Help me understand this about your college and the A of G."
Matt, to be up front I cannot honestly say the AofG discriminates against GLBT people. Mainly, for the reason that is a blanket statement. Also, I know a number of AG pastors who are GLBT friendly and I know even more professors at AG universities who are GLBT friendly. Personally I do not view the community life standards to be "anit-homosexual." The standards hold all students to the same level of accountability, gay or straight. Of the students I have known to be dismissed from a university for being homosexual, the key factor was engaging in sexual relationships. I have known straight students to be dismissed for the same reasons. The fact of the matter is, well what I believe that fact of the matter is, life at a Christian College let alone a Bible College is a hard road and often we are asked to follow rules we may not agree to but they are part of the educational process. So there are many other options instead of a one of the "stricter" colleges. Personally I have a gay friend who chose to attend another college to pursue a degree in Youth Ministries because he knew he would not be able to uphold the rules he was asked to. "** I would like to hear your response to the following two quotations of Dr. King: "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -MLK -- Do you feel as though injustice is occurring at your campus or in your community? If so, what should be done about it? "When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative." -MLK -- In particular, do you think it is wrong for gay and lesbian people to be accepted fully in your community?" Well, from what I understand Soulforce not made any substantial efforts to contact current GLBT students at any AG colleges. They seem to be going off the story of one student who was dismissed and assuming that to be the truth. I think the injustice is the failure of Soulforce to support the GLBT students ware currently at the Colleges. I know quite a few who say the freedoms they gained are now being lost. For example I know of one AG college where they tolerate same-sex couples, as long as they upheld the community standards. Granted they are more discrete but it is progress, but now the school is beginning to crack down on that. The issue of being accepted into "my community" is a slightly loaded question. My idea community of believers may differ vastly from another person. But I know I speak for a few people when I say I do not see any difference between a gay Christian and a straight Christian. That said I feel a Christian is the salt and light of the world and as such they demonstrate a level of "holiness" that is not seen in the world. Namely to get to the issue, I have many gay and lesbian friends whom I consider part of "my community." Part of my distinction here comes from a GLBT Church I would occasionally attend with some friends. Needless to say I found the “spirit” to be vastly different then what I believe in, yet I still attended to support my friends and I volunteered to support the ministry of the church. Then when I spoke out on issues of promiscuity and how I felt, gay or straight, a person was designed by God for life long monogamous relationships. The pastor did not like that I had said this, mostly as it was in response to their sermon on it being acceptable to have numerous partners as long as no one was hurt. In the course of the discussion they learned I was, at the time, seeing a counselor to “become straight.” At that time I was asked to leave and never come back. This comes to the crux of the matter. Why all of the students I have known, being personally or through another, have been dismissed for “sexual immorality.” So I do not see any discrimination on behalf of the schools if they student is unable to adhere to the standards the school sets for all the students. -Venari
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#19
03-08-2006, 10:25 PM
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Response to Michael's statement/question.
Quote:
I apologize if the tone seems divisive but I felt it was the best manner to communicate how “my side” views this situation. The dialogue is there and able to be open. The school requests Soulforce meets the half way which has been rejected. We asked, as I sated before, not to bring the bus to campus but cooperate in making a presentation to the student body. Soulforce refused this and demanded their way only. So since there is an unwillingness to meet the school the school has no obligation to entertain the Equality Ride. Additionally, I and few other students, have already presented new theology and doctrines to the School and the Denomination. Yet this refusal by Soulforce to look into the happenings of the schools is causing a major setback to this "movement." Michael, I hope you see we have tried to meet them half way. Yet there has been a refusal. There has been changes being made but it is being hurt by the actions of Soulforce. So either way, directly or indirectly, the Equality Ride is hostile to both sides of GLBT rights within the School they are visiting. -Venari
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#20
03-08-2006, 10:39 PM
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Venari, sorry that you feel that way... you may be right... I really do think that everyone is just doing the best they know how....
To me this sounds like maybe Soulforce has already gotten the attention they want and they need to be a little less forceful toward a group that has nothing against it... sorry this is how things are happening.
__________________
"What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?"
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