Gays are terrrorists again

[progressive4christ]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. — The Alabama Department of Homeland Security has taken down a Web site it operated that included gay rights and anti-war organizations in a list of groups that could include terrorists.
The Web site identified different types of terrorists, and included a list of groups it believed could spawn terrorists. The list also included environmentalists, animal rights advocates and abortion opponents.
The director of the department, Jim Walker, said his agency received a number of calls and e-mails from people who said they felt the site unfairly targeted certain people just because of their beliefs. He said he plans to put the Web site back on the Internet, but will no longer identify specific types of groups.
Howard Bayliss, chairman of the gay and lesbian advocacy group Equality Alabama, said he doesn't understand why gay rights advocates would be on the list.

"Our group has only had peaceful demonstrations. I'm deeply concerned we've been profiled in this discriminatory matter," Bayliss said.
The site included the groups under a description of what it called "single-issue" terrorists. That group includes people who feel they are trying to create a better world, the Web site said. It said that in some communities, law enforcement officers consider certain single issue groups to be a threat.
"Single-issue extremists often focus on issues that are important to all of us. However, they have no problem crossing the line between legal protest and ... illegal acts, to include even murder, to succeed in their goals," it read.
Walker said the site had been up since spring 2004, and had gotten a relatively small number of hits until it recently became the subject of blogs, he said.
Birmingham attorney Eric Johnston, president of the Alabama Pro Life Coalition, said he was concerned about any list that described people doing social justice work as terrorists.
"Our group's main mission is educational. The thought that we would somehow be harboring terrorists escapes me," he said.

[Gregory_de_Bois]

Of course. Anything that opposes the majority viewpoint must be a terrorist. At least they got it off. The funny thing is, I am each of those: anti-war, pro-gay, pro-animal, anti-abortion, and environmentalist.

Gosh, I am so proud of myself...

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Gregory_de_Bois

Of course. Anything that opposes the majority viewpoint must be a terrorist. At least they got it off. The funny thing is, I am each of those: anti-war, pro-gay, pro-animal, anti-abortion, and environmentalist.

Gosh, I am so proud of myself...

Don't worry son, I'll visit you down in Gitmo... or maybe we'll have cells next door to each other.

[Gregory_de_Bois]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Don't worry son, I'll visit you down in Gitmo... or maybe we'll have cells next door to each other.

I can't wait. I always thought it would be interesting to be imprisoned. When I was younger I used to pretend I was an orphan who was a musical prodigy and had one younger sibling. If I didn't get away from the bad guys, I would be put in prison and somehow try to escape, or I would die from cancer (I think that happened because I had no idea what cancer was). Sometimes I would only have one leg. Ah... the beautiful childhood memories...I even had a beau, Jacob. I haven't seen him in almost ten years. Wow...

[antonyh]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Don't worry son, I'll visit you down in Gitmo... or maybe we'll have cells next door to each other.

Can I have the cell between the two of you

[Gregory_de_Bois]

Originally Posted by antonyh

Can I have the cell between the two of you

Fine with me. Hey, I think I should do the designing and decorating of this jail cell. Maybe if we scare the guards enough we can get them to give us enough supplies to make cells our own little oases (is that right? what is the plural of oasis?). Man, this could be better than the free life. I mean if they got all of the loving people in the world in some jail somewhere it would be so nice for us. We could have a nice little place for the nice people. Okay, I am going to stop now before I sound redundant.

[simpleman]

That story reminds me of the time that I was told that James Dobson's anti-gay rhetoric led people to commit hate crimes.

"they have no problem crossing the line between legal protest and ... illegal acts, to include even murder, to succeed in their goals"

Why is it that everyone writes this off as ridiculous, and then turns around and blames the rhetoric of James Dobson, which has never included any calls to violence against homosexuals, for hate crime? I mean if these Homeland Security people are so ridiculous for fearing acts of violence by activist zealots, then why aren't many here equally as ridiculous for fearing acts of violence by followers of Focus on the Family?

Think of it this way. Greenpeace is not who you worry about, but the Earth Liberation Force likes to blow up cars. Is James Dobson Greenpeace or the ELF?

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by simpleman

That story reminds me of the time that I was told that James Dobson's anti-gay rhetoric led people to commit hate crimes.

"they have no problem crossing the line between legal protest and ... illegal acts, to include even murder, to succeed in their goals"

Why is it that everyone writes this off as ridiculous, and then turns around and blames the rhetoric of James Dobson, which has never included any calls to violence against homosexuals, for hate crime? I mean if these Homeland Security people are so ridiculous for fearing acts of violence by activist zealots, then why aren't many here equally as ridiculous for fearing acts of violence by followers of Focus on the Family?

Think of it this way. Greenpeace is not who you worry about, but the Earth Liberation Force likes to blow up cars. Is James Dobson Greenpeace or the ELF?

You really need to keep an eye on your logical fallacies Simp! (I have a website someplace that lists them in great detail if you want, I'll look them up) In this case you have used TWO (count them) false analogies.

False Analogy #1: arguing that Dobson provides the spirititual/religious framework that allows violent persons to dehumanize and attack innocent gay citizens IS THE SAME AS the government maintaining and publishing a list of "dangerous/subversive groups" that includes peaceful advocacy groups exercising their 1st amendment rights. THE TWO HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON. THE ANALOGY IS FALSE AND MISLEADING.

False Analogy #2 (may also qualify as a false dichotomy...another logical falicy) "James D is either Greenpeace or ELF." Dobson is NEITHER. Using fake science, half-truths, lies, and other deceptive means, Dobson provides the philosophical/theological foundations for hate crimes much as Hitler's "Mein Kampf" provided philosophical foundation for the crimes of the Nazi Brown shirts in the 30's and for the Crimes of the Third Reich in the late 30's and early 40's. To hold James Dobson accountable for the crimes he enables is no less valid than holding Hitler accountable for the crimes he engendered in Europe in the last century.

REally, Simp, your agregious Sophistry (look it up) is getting quite TIRESOME!! Either obtain some intellectual integrity and philosophical know-how or SHUT UP!

[BrianB]

Simpleman might have to crack open that intro. to logic book to brush up on his logical arguments. Recognizing false analogies was the first thing we started with in my class. Of course I'm assuming that he took intro. to logic.

[simpleman]

Originally Posted by u-dog

False Analogy #1: arguing that Dobson provides the spirititual/religious framework that allows violent persons to dehumanize and attack innocent gay citizens IS THE SAME AS the government maintaining and publishing a list of "dangerous/subversive groups" that includes peaceful advocacy groups exercising their 1st amendment rights. THE TWO HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON. THE ANALOGY IS FALSE AND MISLEADING.

Prove to me that James Dobson has anything to do with violent acts against homosexuals. If you said "Fred Phelps provides the spiritual/religious framework that allows violent persons to dehumanize and attack innocent gay citizens" I would probably buy it, because Fred Phelps uses "hate" quite liberally. Maintaining this list is just like the government maintaining a list of all Christian groups that have ever disagreed with gay rights as violent. SoulForce isn't violent, so it shouldn't have been grouped with the ELF in this situation, so why must James Dobson be grouped with violent, individual mean people (especially considering that he doesn't ever preach violence). That was what I was asking.

False Analogy #2 (may also qualify as a false dichotomy...another logical falicy) "James D is either Greenpeace or ELF." Dobson is NEITHER. Using fake science, half-truths, lies, and other deceptive means, Dobson provides the philosophical/theological foundations for hate crimes much as Hitler's "Mein Kampf" provided philosophical foundation for the crimes of the Nazi Brown shirts in the 30's and for the Crimes of the Third Reich in the late 30's and early 40's. To hold James Dobson accountable for the crimes he enables is no less valid than holding Hitler accountable for the crimes he engendered in Europe in the last century.

Yes, you are right. James Dobson is like Hitler. Without anyone knowing he has rooted 11 million GLBT people and their supporters out of their homes and gassed them. He has another 4 million working as slaves at the FoF compound. How could I never see this? Hitler condoned violence, and not only that he used Mein Kampf as the basis for ordering violence on people. James Dobson doesn't condone or order violence on anyone.

REally, Simp, your agregious Sophistry (look it up) is getting quite TIRESOME!! Either obtain some intellectual integrity and philosophical know-how or SHUT UP!

Yes comparing James Dobson to Hitler falls perfectly under "intellectual integrity" and "philosophical know how".

[dewdrop_world]

Originally Posted by simpleman

Prove to me that James Dobson has anything to do with violent acts against homosexuals.

Well, now you've pushed the door wide open... because now we just have to show that Dobson has anything... anything at all... to do with anti-gay violence.



Where was I just reading this?... maybe the New Republic? Anyway... if a class of person is regarded as sub-human, it becomes easier to commit atrocities against them. Look them in the eye with respect for their humanity, and how can you beat them within an inch of their lives and leave them for dead? Look at them as just another filthy f@990t, and it's easy.

Dobson tells his followers that we are nothing but filthy f@990ts. (We have proven THIS to you many times over... funny how, now, none of those conversations ever happened? Don't you remember any of it?) He doesn't pull the trigger himself, but he helps others to feel like they should pull the trigger.

James

[nmwolfboy]

Originally Posted by simpleman

Yes comparing James Dobson to Hitler falls perfectly under "intellectual integrity" and "philosophical know how".

Comparing JD's methods to methods used by Hitler is not the same as comparing them personally. However, u-dog's analogy is an example of a good use of analogy, unlike the false analogies you provided upthread.

Pax ,
scott

[tpdncr4christ]

be decorated with rainbow ribbons and satin banners? I'd love that!!!

Who'd a thunk that gays aren't good enough fighters to be in the armed forces, but we can certainly terrorize the public! Look out, here come men with good fashion sense and women who could beat them up! I'm shaking with terror...

[u-dog]

But I have exercized bad judgement. Against all the advice and counsel offered by those wiser than myself I have

Fed the trolls again!

For those who are interested in such things, the name of Simpleman's most recent logical fallacy is the "Red Herring" he has ignored my true argument which is that Dobson has moral responsibility for the consequences of his ideas in the same way that Hitler had responsibility for the consequences of HIS ideas as articulated in "Mein Kampf" and instead has thrown out to you an argument that I did NOT make (that Dobson IS Hitler)

I'm done feeding the trolls now.

Blessings on everyone!

U-dog

[Zerbie]

What's especially frightening about this maneuvre is the context. We now live in a country where anyone can be detained without charge merely on governmental suspicion of being "a terrorist."

If members of gay rights groups are labelled terrorists, we have another big set of problems.

[ladyinred]

They include organizations that are not known for violent acts? Perhaps if they want to see who the potential terrorists really are, try Ann Coulter who seems to sympathize with those who blow up abortion clinics and actually kill people, try the Army of God which actually does condone violence against abortion clinics and doctors. Try those who are viruently anti-environmentalists who don't care about the destruction to the environment and actually encourage it. Try militant right wingers who actually believe in overthrowing the government through violence. How about those who want to impose a censorship and tear down the wall of separation between church and state. They need to be concerned about these groups I'd say. They sound more like terrorists to me.

Those who think it is within reason to justify violence against certain groups are breaking the law,if they carry out those actions. They have no right to take the law into their own hands or justify murder n the name of their religious beliefs. But as far as I know antiwar demonstrations are protected by the first amendment and free speech as long as they do not commit violence or advocate committing violence against anyone. Environmentalists and gay rights organizations are the same ,protected by the first amendment and free speech as long as they do not commit criminal acts of violence toward others.

[antonyh]

Originally Posted by simpleman

That story reminds me of the time that I was told that James Dobson's anti-gay rhetoric led people to commit hate crimes.

"they have no problem crossing the line between legal protest and ... illegal acts, to include even murder, to succeed in their goals"

Why is it that everyone writes this off as ridiculous, and then turns around and blames the rhetoric of James Dobson, which has never included any calls to violence against homosexuals, for hate crime? I mean if these Homeland Security people are so ridiculous for fearing acts of violence by activist zealots, then why aren't many here equally as ridiculous for fearing acts of violence by followers of Focus on the Family?

Think of it this way. Greenpeace is not who you worry about, but the Earth Liberation Force likes to blow up cars. Is James Dobson Greenpeace or the ELF?

Simpleman, Judy Shepard has a message for you:

[kara speltz]

Originally Posted by u-dog

But I have exercized bad judgement. Against all the advice and counsel offered by those wiser than myself I have

Fed the trolls again!

For those who are interested in such things, the name of Simpleman's most recent logical fallacy is the "Red Herring" he has ignored my true argument which is that Dobson has moral responsibility for the consequences of his ideas in the same way that Hitler had responsibility for the consequences of HIS ideas as articulated in "Mein Kampf" and instead has thrown out to you an argument that I did NOT make (that Dobson IS Hitler)

I'm done feeding the trolls now.

Blessings on everyone!


U-dog

Oh Dave, I know it's tempting when simpleton once again starts his illogical tiraids. He has his mind made up and doesn't want any actual facts to make him have to think. My latest way to hold my tongue (or i guess it's my fingers, is to treat it as a comedy. Because clearly as sad as his statements are, they are also laughable. That is if you like dark comedies. kara

[ladyinred]

AntonyH ,That video sent chills down my spine, but what is also sad is even straight kids are singled out for humiliation and attack if they are suspected of being gay. It might be the clothes they wear or how they act. Everyone is becoming so paranoid about the "gay agenda" it is even reflected in the attitudes at public schools, everyone is walking on eggshells now, never knowing who might be the next victim or victims of hate. The religious right and their vicious rhetoric affects everyone. I just wish people would wake up and "get it." It has really gotten out of control ,a man even murdered his three year old son whom he thought had "gay tendacies." This is just sick and sickening that people would turn a blind eye and not realize just how much grief and sorrow the relgious right is contributing to.

[ladyinred]

Simple man,Dobson's paranoid rhetoric that gays are out to destroy heterosexual marriages and families and society doesn't have impact on society at large and how GLBT people are seen and being treated? You are so full of poop.http://gay.netscape.com/story/2007/0...igh-school/rss

People listen to their religious leaders and take them very seriously, to the point of even voting for political leaders who reflect their views, They listen to people like Dobson and Robertson when they say vote for such-and such and are very good at orchestrating and moblizing others to support their agenda and causes,even if it means violence toward and harrassment of gay students at school. Again I question your depth of moral clarity since you seem to foo-foo such assertions away as the constitutional right to support hate speech and even rigorously defend that assertion. Let's look at the statistics that say that this is affecting the LGBT community causing many to commit suicide.(Haven't you read psychological research that says verbal and emotional abuse are often as damaging as physical abuse)

It's almost like a mob mentality , people rally around these religious leaders as if they are God, and the word of God springs forth from their mouth. They certainly have been calling the shots haven't they? They aren't just disagreeing with the lifestyles of LGBT people they are doing everything in their power to denigrate them and strip them of any rights. They don't seem to mind tormenting or being cruel to LGBT people do they? Or causing harm to them? Where in your holy bible does it advocate doing such things? And the bible holds everyone accountable for the words they speak (Even portraying the mouth as set on fire by the flames of hell) because it says words reflect what is in the heart. You might want to ponder that one a bit. Evidently words have power and carry alot of weight since people are often influenced by them written or spoken.