Biblical problems with gay marriage?

[ladyinred]

Biblical Problems with Gay Marriage (Taken from the free Christian website/
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If you believe that "the United States is a "Christian nation" and support the idea of a so-called "Defense of (biblical) Marriage Act" because of what the bible teaches, then you should prove your sincerity by promoting the rest of what the Bible teaches about marriage. To begin with, (in keeping with Gen. 29:17-28; II Sam. 3:2-5) that Act should be modified to read "Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women". Then U. S. law should be revised to incorporate the following :
A. (in keeping with II Sam. 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron. 11:21) marriage must not impede a man's right to take concubines in addition to his wife or wives.
B. (in keeping with Deut. 22:13-21) in order to be considered valid, a marriage the bride must be a virgin. If she is not a virgin, she must be executed.
C. (in keeping with Gen. 24:3; Num. 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh. 10:30) marriage of a believer and a non-believer must be forbidden.
D. (in keeping with Deut. 22:19; Mark 10:9) since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce.
E. (in keeping with Gen. 38:6-10; Deut. 25:5-10) when a married man dies without children, his brother must marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he must pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law.

My addition,of course you'd have to stone anyone who commits adultery,(According to the old testament) including men and women who have remarried, because Jesus condemned divorce and said any man who divorces and remarries commits adultery and causes his ex wife to if she remarries.
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[tpdncr4christ]

I love you.

That is so cool...

[BruceChris]

In biblical times, people would commit adultery, and then get stoned. Now days, it's pretty much the other way around.

P&L, BC

[Gregory_de_Bois]

Originally Posted by BruceChris

In biblical times, people would commit adultery, and then get stoned. Now days, it's pretty much the other way around.

P&L, BC

[sjbouza]

Originally Posted by BruceChris

In biblical times, people would commit adultery, and then get stoned. Now days, it's pretty much the other way around.

P&L, BC

OMG...i get it.... What is sad is I had to read it like 6 times. I am sooooo blonde sometimes. And I make fun of my partner for not getting jokes. He is gonna have a field day with this one. Hummmm, maybe I shouldnt tell him

[pnggrad79]

Well I agree with that! When I came out to my dad, he told me that the Bible expressly forbids homosexuality. He quoted to me Leviticus, and I said that if that were still in effect, why did he also like bacon with his eggs? why did he insist on wearing clothes made from two different types of fabric? why did he like jumbo size shrimp? Those are also forbidden by Scripture(old testament). He actually said to me, "Well, there are some laws that are obsolete and no longer valid, but not homosexuality." I said, " So who decides what old testament laws are obsolete? Anyone who decides he likes a BLT? All of a sudden because they like bacon, that old testament law is obsolete?"

My question is- Who decides what is valid and what is not? Who decides what is permissible and what is not? From history's example, the establishment always can find a way to justify their tyranny in the Bible, using Scripture. I want to know exactly where in the Bible did God or Jesus EVER negate, invalidate, abolish or retract anything they said?

Leviticus condemns men lying with men as with a woman. If it was valid back then, it is valid today.

Leviticus also condemns eating shellfish, pork and wearing multifabric clothes- So close down every shellfish restaurant, discontinue the whole crab industry, allow pigs to run rampant, and let's all go back to wearing just cotton. If it was valid then, it must be valid now.


No, I think that the religious leaders today have to have a bandwagon to jump on. They have to have an issue, because they know that they are losing their hold on the people. The church has been the source of much pain and discord in the population that many feel they have no place in the community of faith. The church has nothing to offer anyone but impossible standards, an angry God, and a condemning spirit, that only wants your money.

When the church becomes what the BIBLE says it should be, it will be a place of refuge for the lost and dying. It will be a haven for the sick and weary. It will be a source of love for the unloved, it will be a place where anyone can go, sing praises to the Creator, worship Him in spirit and truth and have a true relationship. That is what the church should look like, but sadly it is far from it.

[alakazoom87]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

Well I agree with that! When I came out to my dad, he told me that the Bible expressly forbids homosexuality. He quoted to me Leviticus, and I said that if that were still in effect, why did he also like bacon with his eggs? why did he insist on wearing clothes made from two different types of fabric? why did he like jumbo size shrimp? Those are also forbidden by Scripture(old testament). He actually said to me, "Well, there are some laws that are obsolete and no longer valid, but not homosexuality." I said, " So who decides what old testament laws are obsolete? Anyone who decides he likes a BLT? All of a sudden because they like bacon, that old testament law is obsolete?"

My question is- Who decides what is valid and what is not? Who decides what is permissible and what is not? From history's example, the establishment always can find a way to justify their tyranny in the Bible, using Scripture. I want to know exactly where in the Bible did God or Jesus EVER negate, invalidate, abolish or retract anything they said?

Leviticus condemns men lying with men as with a woman. If it was valid back then, it is valid today.

Leviticus also condemns eating shellfish, pork and wearing multifabric clothes- So close down every shellfish restaurant, discontinue the whole crab industry, allow pigs to run rampant, and let's all go back to wearing just cotton. If it was valid then, it must be valid now.


No, I think that the religious leaders today have to have a bandwagon to jump on. They have to have an issue, because they know that they are losing their hold on the people. The church has been the source of much pain and discord in the population that many feel they have no place in the community of faith. The church has nothing to offer anyone but impossible standards, an angry God, and a condemning spirit, that only wants your money.

When the church becomes what the BIBLE says it should be, it will be a place of refuge for the lost and dying. It will be a haven for the sick and weary. It will be a source of love for the unloved, it will be a place where anyone can go, sing praises to the Creator, worship Him in spirit and truth and have a true relationship. That is what the church should look like, but sadly it is far from it.

I'm not going to get in a big old debate with you guys, however, it is standard doctrine that kosher laws no longer exist. Its written in scripture: Acts 10:9-16.

[pnggrad79]

That was my point exactly AL! Thanks for being so succinct in the middle of my preaching, ranting and raving! You said it well!

[alakazoom87]

Well I was just confused as to why you would relate homosexuality to kosher laws. We know for a fact that as Christians, we do not need to uphold to the kosher food laws. However, the current "debate" that is taking place, is whether or not we need to uphold the homosexuality laws.

I completely understand your argument as a whole: we cannot pick and choose what still stands from the levitical laws. However, you cannot use kosher foods as ammunition.

[ladyinred]

I just posted the thing above on marriage to show how hypocritical straight evangelicals can be on the issue of marriage. Marriage back in old testament days regarded women more as property and chattel. Men more or less basically did as they pleased. Abraham had a concubine, Solomon 1000 wives and concubines.

Also I read where the divorce rate is highest among evangelicals in the red states or bible belt. Let's just say people who live in glass houses have no right to throw stones at LGBT people when they don't live according to the standards of their own bible which they insist is the infallible word of God when they are breaking it's commandments all the time. They have premarital sex, even though the bible expressly forbids it, they divorce in spite of what Jesus said about divorce.So there is not much room for them to point the finger at gays and say they are sinful. And really no room to throw stones at others and condemn them when their own behavior doesn't measure up and all too often falls short of an "ideal" Which is why Jesus probably said for this reason that the measure you use to judge others will come back to you(The measure you mete will be meted unto you)

Perhaps that is why Jesus called people hypocrites for looking at the speck in their brother's eye without perceiving the log in their own? LGBT people are frankly tired of double standards.
There is really nothing to justify bigotry and discrimination toward gays. If so, then the same laws that are used to discriminate against gays should also apply to others who commit "sins" including straight people who do the above. Of course the religious right in all it's hypocrisy wouldn't dare to do that because they would lose many of their own congregation and supporters, many of which are divorced and remarried. They don't want to lose their cash cows .

As Jesus said,"He who is without sin, may cast the first stone." Straight people better drop the rocks folks and look at that ol' log in their own eye before they start to condemn others.

[ladyinred]

Now we know why there is a need for SoulForce,ACLU,PFAW, DEFCON, and other human rights groups who obviously see through the double standards and hypocrisy of the right. And that's why most people roll their eyes here when we here the rantings of the right about how gays are such "sinners": rolleyes:

[Progo35]

I really don't understand why Christians quote leviticus as necessitating their position. The only verses that are relevant to Christian practice are in the New Testament, so that anyone who is concerned with the morality or immorality of being gay must refer to Corinthians. Those are the only statements that I take into account: that make me concerned for the spiritual wellfare of gay individuals. As another user noted, Acts recounts the substitution of Christ's sacrifice for many of the ritual practices in the Old Testament.

[ladyinred]

Progo35:Even if certain Christians do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle it does not excuse treating LGBT people inhumanely.Why does the bible say to follow the golden rule for example?What about the bible saying judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy ,mercy truimphs over judgment?

Why did Jesus say to be merciful as your Father in Heaven is merciful? Why did Jesus say judge not unless you be judged?Why Did Jesus command us to love our neighbor as ourself?

For those who vilify and attack gays, this does not show any concern for their welfare, nor does it show love.
Is it loving to another person to cause them pain and torment?

Is it loving to be inhumane to others? Is it loving to use threats of coercion to intimidate people to keep them in line? Is it loving to tell them they are unworthy of God's love and grace and are going to hell? Is it loving to harm others?

So is it loving to destroy people's lives? Jesus said I've come into the world not to condemn it but to save it. The bible says ."That God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son." That doesn't exclude anyone from God's love, justice and sense of mercy does it.

Is it loving to use gay people as scapegoats for all the ills of our society and blame them for heterosexuals divorcing and their relationship and family problems or for everything bad that happens to other people?

Is it loving when hate crimes are committed against gays who are then told they deserve what they got?Is it loving to torment LGBT kids at school and make their lives a living hell on earth?

Is it loving to dehumanize people and strip them of their dignity and worth as individuals? And I am so sure straight people would want to be treated this way,if this kind of ugliness and maltreatment were directed at them. And why does the bible say,"love does no harm to a neighbor and therefore is the fulfilment of the law?" Doesn't seem here that it excludes LGBT people.

For all their talk of love the sinner and hate the sin. The religious right has a strange idea of what love is.The bible speaks of loosening the bonds of oppression and letting the oppressed go free. Should Christians further oppress the oppressed then? Should they show no mercy to the outcasts and marginalized? LGBT people are no different from any other human being in how they want to be treated.

[alakazoom87]

Originally Posted by ladyinred

Progo35:Even if certain Christians do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle it does not excuse treating LGBT people inhumanely.Why does the bible say to follow the golden rule for example?What about the bible saying judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy ,mercy truimphs over judgment?

Why did Jesus say to be merciful as your Father in Heaven is merciful? Why did Jesus say judge not unless you be judged?Why Did Jesus command us to love our neighbor as ourself?

For those who vilify and attack gays, this does not show any concern for their welfare, nor does it show love.
Is it loving to another person to cause them pain and torment?

Is it loving to be inhumane to others? Is it loving to use threats of coercion to intimidate people to keep them in line? Is it loving to tell them they are unworthy of God's love and grace and are going to hell? Is it loving to harm others?

So is it loving to destroy people's lives? Jesus said I've come into the world not to condemn it but to save it. The bible says ."That God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son." That doesn't exclude anyone from God's love, justice and sense of mercy does it.

Is it loving to use gay people as scapegoats for all the ills of our society and blame them for heterosexuals divorcing and their relationship and family problems or for everything bad that happens to other people?

Is it loving when hate crimes are committed against gays who are then told they deserve what they got?Is it loving to torment LGBT kids at school and make their lives a living hell on earth?

Is it loving to dehumanize people and strip them of their dignity and worth as individuals? And I am so sure straight people would want to be treated this way,if this kind of ugliness and maltreatment were directed at them. And why does the bible say,"love does no harm to a neighbor and therefore is the fulfilment of the law?" Doesn't seem here that it excludes LGBT people.

For all their talk of love the sinner and hate the sin. The religious right has a strange idea of what love is.The bible speaks of loosening the bonds of oppression and letting the oppressed go free. Should Christians further oppress the oppressed then? Should they show no mercy to the outcasts and marginalized? LGBT people are no different from any other human being in how they want to be treated.

Do you honestly believe that any Christian that believes homosexuality is a bigot/hypocrite? Basically, you are putting all Christians who don't believe on your views of what sexual immorality is in one category, and that by default is wrong.

Your argument seems to say: right Christians shouldn't have any concern for homosexual Christians because right Christians are all having premarital sex, all right Christians are divorced, and all right Christians are hypocrites. Do you see how unfair this is? The tone of your posts seems to say that the best and most righteous Christians are the ones who approve of homosexuality.

Also, your argument still doesn't satisfy the claim that homosexuality is not a sin, it merely illudes the subject all together by pointing the finger back at right Christians.

*prepares to be hated and yelled at by soulforce forum although alakazoom87 has not stated his own beliefs on the matter*

[pnggrad79]

Al- Consider this?

IF homosexuality is a sin- why is it that the religious right picks and chooses what they want to harp on next? In my opinion, the argument is if homosexuality is a sin (personally I don't believe it is) then it should not be considered any worse than premarital sex. gambling, drunkeness, extramarital sex, divorce or a host of any other prohibitions in the Bible. Therefore, it is simply being judgmental and self righteous to point at someone else's faults, when you have plenty of your own to worry about.

IF homosexuality is NOT a sin- then the religious right needs to just shut the hell up! We don't want to get married in your narrow minded churches and we don't want your way of life. We simply want what the Constitution says is ours by virtue of the fact that we are Americans. We want the ability to live, work, love, and raise families just like everyone else.

[alakazoom87]

So, we should not help each other out with each others sins? And just ignore its existence entirely?

Matthew 18:15

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by alakazoom87

So, we should not help each other out with each others sins? And just ignore its existence entirely?

Matthew 18:15

Zoom honey. Did I just hear you utter a pick up line?

Loving another person is hardly a sin. Even if they are of the same sex.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by alakazoom87

Also, your argument still doesn't satisfy the claim that homosexuality is not a sin, it merely illudes the subject all together by pointing the finger back at right Christians.

*prepares to be hated and yelled at by soulforce forum although alakazoom87 has not stated his own beliefs on the matter*

#1, get yourself a dictionary and a thesaurus.

#2, state your own opinions, own what you post, or I will ban you. I promise you this.

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by alakazoom87

So, we should not help each other out with each others sins? And just ignore its existence entirely?

Matthew 18:15

I don't believe other people's sins are mine to monitor. After all on Judgment Day, it won't be any other person standing with me in front of God when it is my turn. It will be just me and HIM. Nobody else has the right or privilege to judge me or my actions except GOD and sadly I can't think of one person in the so called Religious Right that even remotely resembles or acts like HIM. The Religious Right is the the Religious WRONG!!!!

[ladyinred]

Pngrad:"IF homosexuality is a sin- why is it that the religious right picks and chooses what they want to harp on next? In my opinion, the argument is if homosexuality is a sin (personally I don't believe it is) then it should not be considered any worse than premarital sex. gambling, drunkeness, extramarital sex, divorce or a host of any other prohibitions in the Bible. Therefore, it is simply being judgmental and self righteous to point at someone else's faults, when you have plenty of your own to worry about."

IF homosexuality is NOT a sin- then the religious right needs to just shut the hell up! We don't want to get married in your narrow minded churches and we don't want your way of life. We simply want what the Constitution says is ours by virtue of the fact that we are Americans. We want the ability to live, work, love, and raise families just like everyone else."
__________________
Exactly what I was trying to point out in my posts ,the pick and choose thing with the religious right and those who think like them.Why is the supposed sin of homosexuality worse than any other sin in the bible, and used to discriminate against gay people and to deny them their rights? Christianity is not at dispute here, there are many Christians who don't agree with the religious rights mentality and lack of humanity.

Alakazoom what makes you qualified to help LGBT people ,are you an expert on human sexuality and mental health, are you so knowledgeable of God that you know everything he thinks? What about your own life, is your life itself above scrutiny or reproach that you can continously point out the "sins" of others and as Jesus said,not notice the log in your own eye? Sorry but I say LGBT people do not need your kind of help.We all have seen where many times that leads to with reparative therapy, and guilt trips and bible beating over the head.Many times suicide, despair and broken lives.Actually what LGBT people need to be saved from are the likes of YOU who think they know better about what others should or should not be doing and how they should be saved.

Besides it is not in your power to change others or even to force change on others, they must determine what is right for them based on their own personal relationship with God. Sorry if that doesn't agree with your view of how people need to be saved or your interpretation of the bible but then again you are not God. I would keep a focus on the person you need to ,yourself and what may need to change for you to grow spiritually,that's all you have control over is your own life.As the bible says ,"Love does not demand it's own way."(As in imposing itself on others and demanding others to conform to it's expectations)