How can I work for justice in the Culture War?

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by Karen Keen

PS-- This may be a good time for me to bow out of the discussion here. I think further discussion might inevitably cross the policy boundaries. I don't want to be disrespectful of the sacred space here and its purpose. I originally signed on to clarify a comment made about my blog post. I feel we have had some great discussion and I really appreciate you all being willing to share with me. I have great respect for all of you.

If any folk want to continue the ex-gay/ex-ex gay discussion and dynamics I noticed blogger disputedmutability.wordpress.com is just starting up such a discussion and her blog tends to be a place both sides feel safe engaging on. Perhaps I'll see some of you over there.

Take good care, Karen

Friends,
This is a very interesting blog that Karen refers us to----doesn't make alot of sense to me--but verrrry interesting! (I'm unconsciously channeling an old 60's comedy show). I suppose my lack of understanding comes partly from not being either "ex-gay" or "ex-exgay". Part of it may be that I'm 28 years older than the 28 year-old who is doing the blogging.

This blogger (who sounds alot like Karen, but seems to be someone else) seems to be insightful, but confused at the same time. Maybe I see things too black & white---but then again maybe she is confused.

I read several of her posts. She seems to have really enjoyed Peterson Toscano's "Homo' No Mo'" She seems to really appreciate Peterson's exexgay perspective.

She says she wants to bridge the "culture war" gap--and her heart seems in the right place. She reads the Box Turtle Bulletin site and is appropriately horrified at the way right-wing homophobes use the ex-gay movement for political gain.

As I said, verrrrry interesting! Check the blog out--do you think it's Karen?

Steven Webster

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by keltic63

u-dog, there is so much here that resonates with me.
No, I wouldn't change this life, but like you, I would not recommend it to anyone. The real key is to be honest about who one is. Honest, and unapologetic.


everybody sing it with me now: I am what I am, and what I am needs no excuses

Yes, my brother, I feel totally heard. Thank you!

[KennethJ]

After reading all these posts... I think... How I long for a day when Gay and Lesbian people will be loved and appreciated for who they are and live in WHOLENESS with all of themselves... and won't have to compartmentalize themselves into "unwanted attractions" or see themselves as broken or sick or sinful or break the unity of their experience in order to be accepted by the god of the establishment!

[tdogg]

Originally Posted by keltic63

u-dog, there is so much here that resonates with me. Some days, I feel robbed; robbed of a long and loving relationship with the right person (with the right parts!) I can truly say that while there were blessings within my straight marriage, there is an abundance of blessings in my life as an out gay man. the cup overflows on a regular basis! does that mean I'd change any of it? No. I believe that things have happened as they should have, and that without this particular course of events, I would not be who I am, my ex-wife would not be who she is (or have the potential to become something greater after having the experience) and the children are here to fulfill some great purpose that can only be dreamed of at the moment. I think of how compassionless I may have been without ever having gone through the crisis that I endured; I think about the lessons my children have learned from my personal growth. I think about the good things that my partner and I share now, and it's most likely that we would never have met, had each of us made different choices 15-20 years ago.

No, I wouldn't change this life, but like you, I would not recommend it to anyone. The real key is to be honest about who one is. Honest, and unapologetic.


everybody sing it with me now: I am what I am, and what I am needs no excuses

Steven, this is exactly how I feel! Part of me is a little angry (or at least used to be), feeling that I was robbed of experience "life" fully in the way I was made to experience it. Then I think, if not for the experiences I did have (negative as well as positive) I would not be the person I am today, and I sorta like that person! And, I possibly would not have met my partner, or if I did, would not necessarily be in a state to allow me to have a relationship with her. So, everything in my life up to this point has enabled me to be at this point in my life now.

Can't be too mad - it's a pretty great life right now!

[u-dog]

Seems to be a recurring theme... at least among this "glass half-full" community

I also have to remember that if I had come out instead of marrying Polly it would have been

1. In New York City
2. In 1982 or 83

In other words.... Ground Zero of the AIDS epidemic before anyone knew anything about AIDS, what it was, how it was spread. I think I will just take my life and say "thank you". But I DO want some better options for the next generation of young GLBT people!!

[Karen Keen]

I'm sorry, but I had to pop in one more time to say: For crying out loud Steven--no I am *not* Disputed Mutability. I wonder why you even felt the need to say something like that--to discount me or her in some way? I just recently discovered her blog and find it very interesting. Even Ex-Gay Watch has her on their blogroll and many ex-ex gays dialogue on her blog. She has been in the blogosphere a lot longer than me. I think she may even know Christine Bakke--or at least they were ministered to by the same ex-gay leaders at one time.

And, one important distinction between DM and I--she is married now and I am not.

Okay--goodbye again . . .

PS-- Zerbie--thanks for your last post. I did read it. You sound like a kindhearted, reasonable person. Take care.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Karen Keen

PS-- Zerbie--thanks for your last post. I did read it. You sound like a kindhearted, reasonable person. Take care.

Just about everyone here is quite reasonable and extremely kindhearted. I hope you saw that, despite the mix-up someone made about blogger identities.

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by Karen Keen

I'm sorry, but I had to pop in one more time to say: For crying out loud Steven--no I am *not* Disputed Mutability. I wonder why you even felt the need to say something like that--to discount me or her in some way? I just recently discovered her blog and find it very interesting. Even Ex-Gay Watch has her on their blogroll and many ex-ex gays dialogue on her blog. She has been in the blogosphere a lot longer than me. I think she may even know Christine Bakke--or at least they were ministered to by the same ex-gay leaders at one time.

And, one important distinction between DM and I--she is married now and I am not.

Okay--goodbye again . . .

PS-- Zerbie--thanks for your last post. I did read it. You sound like a kindhearted, reasonable person. Take care.

Karen,
I'm glad you're still here. I did not intend to hurt your feelings, nor discount you. Criticize what I said, not what you think I intended, please.

Again, I found the blog and the view points represented there and by you interesting. They provoke thought, they make me wonder--but I do find them strange at the same time. No time to explore that strangeness at this moment, but maybe later.

On the positive side--it does force one to get beyond "black & white thinking," which is always a temptation and always good to challenge.

Don't stay away. If you're breaking any rules, someone will let you know nicely. (The first time, anyway.)

Steven Webster