My Heart Hurts

[Str8Ally]

Originally Posted by Progo35

I don't think that secular society is all that enlightened, St8ally... The Nazis were completely secular and forbade religion-and we know what they did to gay people along with 10 million others whom they felt were a blight to soceity. According to the renowned sociologist Zygmut Bowman, much of the Nazi regime was based on the idea that Modernity and the principles of the enlightenment could enable men to make decisions that were previously relegated to divine judgement-such as whom to kill and when. So, I don't think that all the conservative Christians in the world "catching up" with secular society would eradicate prejudice...it MIGHT assist gay individuals, but ultimately it would resolve nothing, allowing such behavior to continue towards someone, somewhere, at the behest of the state, when the state felt it was necessary. So, whomever it felt was a social blight, whether it be gay people or someone else-could be eliminated based on logical principles. Logically, if someone hurts society, it is okay to get rid of him or her because of the number of people who supposedly benefit from this. Now, of course, I'm not suggesting that conservative Christianity is the salvation of society, I'm just saying that secularist philosophy has just as many serious, potentially deadly flaws as any religion when tenets are forced upon or used to harm someone who does/can not observe them.

I did not intend to speak of the issue in such a broad philosophical light, as in "secularism" versus "religion." Any ideology can be abused, of course, I don't question that. My comments were based on the observance of the cultural climate in the United States, where secular people (and that includes religious people, by the way) are generally far more enlightened about homosexuality than their conservative christian counterparts. To be pro-equality for the GLBT community requires you to be a progressive morally, and conservatism is the definitive opposite of progressivism.

[Progo35]

I think that if we maintain that conservatism and progressivism are irrecovicably at odds with one another, indicating that one must be vanquished in the pursuit of justice, causes society to fall into the trap of polarizing into the two camps of "secularism" vs. "relgion."

What I have noticed about the secular vs. conservative camps is that either one tends to accept and support certain minority groups while the other is portrayed as not supporting them. For instance, most of the commentary that I've seen advocating euthanasia (even involuntarily)! of disabled people has come from the most secular people among us, such as Peter Singer, Jonathan Bentham, etc, who continue to ascribe the fascist idea that disabled people drain the system and should be "mericifully" done away with. These two people in particular based their arguments on the so-called progression of our soceity from one where Christian morality governs action to where reason governs action. Medical ethics in our soceity has begun to operate "futile care" directives, whereby elderly and frail patients have been refused treatment or starved to death on the premise that they will not get better and are a burden to themselves and to social resources. This first happened in 1982, when an infant with Down syndrome was denied an very simple, insurance-covered operation to open her esophagus, which caused her to die of starvation while her lungs were digested by her bodies own gastric juices. No civil rights organizations, including the ACLU or anyone else-intervened. In the UK this year, an elderly woman was starved to death while begging for food and a cup of tea-she had had a stroke and since she was disabled, the hospital treating her removed her feeding tube WITHOUT her family's consent.

Still sound like secularists are ahead of their Christian counterparts? I think not.

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by Str8Ally

I did not intend to speak of the issue in such a broad philosophical light, as in "secularism" versus "religion." Any ideology can be abused, of course, I don't question that. My comments were based on the observance of the cultural climate in the United States, where secular people (and that includes religious people, by the way) are generally far more enlightened about homosexuality than their conservative christian counterparts. To be pro-equality for the GLBT community requires you to be a progressive morally, and conservatism is the definitive opposite of progressivism.

I think we need to be careful of labels. Both "conservatives" and "secularists" are capable of moral evil and moral good.

Steven Webster

[Progo35]

You said it, Stephen.

[Daniel]

Austin-

Keep writing. Good stuff.

Do you write on the computer or longhand? You may find a difference between the two.

Some of the great writers like Gore Vidal and Joan Didion do the latter. Interesting, huh?

[cousin.of.zuzu]

Wow. Today I just heard the first of what I am sure will be many emails and messages from my family as I am outing myself and this poem somehow helped. Thanks for sharing.

http://titration.blogspot.com

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by cousin.of.zuzu

Wow. Today I just heard the first of what I am sure will be many emails and messages from my family as I am outing myself and this poem somehow helped. Thanks for sharing.

http://titration.blogspot.com

Got you in my prayers sister! The tone of the e-mail is hopeful. If the beginning point is "We love you" then anything can be built on that! I am impressed that they understood that they needed time to process instead of launching into some kind of sermon. Keep us up to date as their response unfolds. you will almost certainly need support even if their response to you is mostly supportive!!

[elcharrom]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

It wasn't me speaking... I'm not sure how, but I wanted to say something for those folks who don't get a chance to say something, you know?

I feel you, I know what you sayin, that poem strikes me, well because reminds me of how I was and how far I've come and really how lucky I am.

[cousin.of.zuzu]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Got you in my prayers sister! Keep us up to date as their response unfolds. you will almost certainly need support even if their response to you is mostly supportive!!

U dog thanks! And I shall keep you updated.

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Austin-

Keep writing. Good stuff.

Do you write on the computer or longhand? You may find a difference between the two.

Some of the great writers like Gore Vidal and Joan Didion do the latter. Interesting, huh?

I write on the computer, or in hand, sometimes I even right with my left hand or in the dark just to see what comes of it.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

I write on the computer, or in hand, sometimes I even right with my left hand or in the dark just to see what comes of it.

Very interesting indeed!

I'm left handed and sometimes write with my right hand. It's interesting what comes out. A writing teacher remarked that this technique can activate the 'unconscious'. Don't know if that's true or not, but it must make the brain work a bit differently.

I've kept a dream journal over the years and have found myself writing in the dark many times. The next morning I sometimes have a hard time reading what I wrote! It's like another person was doing it.

[tpdncr4christ]

exactly. what better way to let out the voices then let them talk for themselves?

i'm not the least bit insane, really

[antonyh]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

I write on the computer, or in hand, sometimes I even right with my left hand or in the dark just to see what comes of it.

I really liked your poem. I think writers need to try interesting things to keep ideas coming and creativity flowing.

[BrentRichards]

Wonderful poem, Austin ... I was almost crying, and then glad to read that it's not really about you ... sadly, it is about too many people. We love you, kid ... keep writing.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

exactly. what better way to let out the voices then let them talk for themselves?

i'm not the least bit insane, really

True. But are you 100% sure on the not being insane part?