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#1
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Certainly worth remembering his family and loved ones. Sadly, Jim never changed his mind/heart about us, but may his soul rest in peace now.
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Better to light one candle than to curse the darkness. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
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#2
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Nor any expression of unmitigated glee..
__ Mel White mentions in "Religion Gone Bad" how he went through hoops to get evidence of the lies being told about GLBT's to Reverend Kennedy. Upon presentation, Kennedy dismissed him, without even looking at the evidence, and told White to "repent!" __ More recently Citizenlink: Quote:
Imagine the suicides and murders he's now experiencing first hand - and all the fallout from them (parents, friends, family). __ James Dobson, Marriage Under Fire: Quote:
![]() Lest ye look a little deeper Dr. Dobson, you might well consider that that too will be your legacy, and at a time when you'll no longer be able to do anything about it.
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Nothing bad can ever happen. ~God |
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#3
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I generally ignore the preaching of the big media preachers. However, D. James Kennedy was an exception. I always thought that he had a great understanding of the Bible and had a good understanding about the centrality of grace to the Christian faith. I used to listen to his messages quite regularly.
I was always saddened that he seemed to let his political views work their way into his religious message. (Not that I didn't agree with a lot of them, but I feel that mixing personal views and religion weakens the gospel message.) And his very anti-gay message seemed designed to bring in money from the homophobic segment of Christianity. It seems that the quest for more money often (almost always?) corrupts Christian organizations. I think he was a good man who let himself get distracted from proclaiming a message of love and hope to the world. Tu Amigo, Pablo
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For I am convinced that neither life nor death...neither the present nor the future nor anything in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39 |
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#4
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I think a lot of good preachers who have the gift get sucked in to the lure of power and money like Dobson, Falwell, Kennedy and the like. I believe money drives a lot if not all forces in this country and no one does anything if it doesn't get them something in return. These guys figured out it would make them very rich to build mega churches, tell their parishioners that their families were being threatened by homosexuals, pornographers, abortionists and every other evil in the world, and people would flood in, give their money for a cause and create a society where gay people and anyone different than their ideal would be marginalized, castigated and thrown out.
This does not look or sound like the gospel that Jesus preached and lived. One does not see Jesus whipping up the emotions of people to revolt against the Roman empire. One does not see Jesus marginalizing people who are different. Jesus did not strive to build a mega church and create a threat to get his followers banded together in a common cause. Jesus' message was love God and love others. Jesus message was liberating, not built out of fear. Dobson, Falwell, and Kennedy capitalized on the notion of fear. This is diametrically opposed to Jesus life, message and purpose. How we can even call these men Christian is just amazing to me. I don't mean to stomp on a man's grave, but I can't say that I am sorry he died. I feel for his family, but this man, like Falwell, has kept many people in the closet, caused family disruption, trumpeted fear and loathing for gay people, and I am glad one more is gone. Maybe now God can be heard and Jesus will once again shine.
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If everyone cared and nobody cried, if everyone loved and nobody lied, if everyone shared and swallowed their pride, we'd see the day when nobody died. IF EVERYONE CARED/Nickelback |
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#5
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#6
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Though I believe a lot of the tele-evangelists are motivated by finances. I have to say the one person who has always had my respect is Billy Graham. He has stuck to the Gospel message; it is always a message of hope. As far as I know, he has never spoken against LGBT individuals in the church. He also never did run the Billy Graham Evagelistic Association. It was governed by a Board of Directors who paid him a modest salary.
Not all of the old school evangelists have fallen into the trap of establishing and running big media empires. Though I don't want to sound like I defend the anti LGBT message of D. James Kennedy, and I am glad that one fewer homophobic preacher is spreading a message of discrimination, I remember that I was once that way myself. I thank the Lord that he has shown me a better way. However, if I were straight, I fear I might still be in that mindset. I think often homophobic individuals are more misled than they are evil. Tu Amigo, Pablo
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For I am convinced that neither life nor death...neither the present nor the future nor anything in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39 |
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#7
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...he won't be missed.
[With all due apologies to G & S....]
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DraneSpout.com |
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#8
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It is a terrible waste of a life to die and have literally millions of people express nothing but happiness about it. But you know, he kinda brought it on himself. I kinda think, D. J. K, you were a huge influence over a lot of people, and they in turn due to your teachings, proceeded to castigate their own gay children, and throw them out like they were trash, cause them to think that God and the church would never welcome them, and now because they have no hope and no place else to go, many of them refuse to darken the doorstep of a church and have no spirituality at all. So while DJK preached about God's love, there are many whose blood will be on his hands when he stands before God to answer for his life. Those people, unless God directs otherwise, will never know God's love, peace and acceptance of who they are. I include Dobson and Falwell in that mix. It is a pure tragedy....
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If everyone cared and nobody cried, if everyone loved and nobody lied, if everyone shared and swallowed their pride, we'd see the day when nobody died. IF EVERYONE CARED/Nickelback |
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#9
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While it is impossible to know what the destiny of each individual is or assign social decay to the responsibility of an entire people group, I doubt that Kennedy said what he said for money. He obviously believed what he said, statements about the gay community or being gay included. I think that if he had lost every last penny and had no fame at all, he probably would have maintained that the Bible does not condone gay couples having sex with one another, married or not.
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#10
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Over all I always liked him, but I was never cut by his remarks.
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http://wunsicdude.blogspot.com/ |
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#11
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Quote:
Many of these preachers, Falwell, Kennedy, etc, took the social climate and capitalized on it, stirring up their congregations, frightening them into political action and causing disintegration. They didn't take the message of Christ, who openly welcomed the outcasts of society and became their friend, and preach it, because people don't want to hear about loving their neighbor unconditionally. Fear is in an incredible attraction to a lot of people because it implies control over frightening things. FEAR If we let black people in our restaurants, and drink from our water fountains and sit in the front of the bus and let them vote, they will mix with the white race and somehow infect it. FEAR kept black people in chains for a hundred years after the Civil War, and in a lot of ways they still are. LOVE Jesus would have embraced them and showed them He loved them. He would not have been part of the group who cast them out because they had different color skin. FEAR If we let "sinners" into our congregations, they will continue to sin, and it will look bad on us because we couldn't change them. No, keep them out on the street because we can't have them in here with their lifestyle influencing our kids. LOVE Jesus would have loved them, realized their pain, and showed them a better way, filled up their lives with Him instead of whatever they are doing to fill up the void in their hearts. He didn't make them go away. He invited them to join Him in his world. I will stop rambling, hopefully you see my point. The message of Christianity today is not the message of Christ. It pays lip service to it, but many Christians today worship the god of fear and hatred, because it gives them a sense of control. If they were to let homosexuals marry, and welcome them into mainstream society, they fear that their kids will be homos, and that what they have preached for so long will make them look foolish and they can't do that. It's easier to take a group they don't understand and say they are evil than it is to say, "Hey, come on over and tell us about yourself, let's get to know each other."
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If everyone cared and nobody cried, if everyone loved and nobody lied, if everyone shared and swallowed their pride, we'd see the day when nobody died. IF EVERYONE CARED/Nickelback |
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#12
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I totally see your point pnggrad79: As you articulate, we live in a world where people are afraid to stand up for their convictions, for fear of what will happen to them and their career. This is something that has swayed and damaged the actions of many good people in many things. It's like when Peter got so scared that he abandoned Jesus-to his later agony-he was just seized with fear for his own safety and forgot what he promised his Lord. So, obviously, money and image ARE major factors in deciding whether to welcome the LGBT community and any minority community that has been singled out for disdain. "If I told you," a publication by LGBT students at Gordon, shared their painful accounts of what they experienced after coming out to family and friends, and how differently they were treated. Obviously, when you take a position, you will have to deal with the consequences. So, I agree with your point, too...I just think that it's extremely important to recognize that the theological convictions of most adult individuals are arrived at through careful consideration, so it would be a major mistake to assume that fame and money is the primary motivator for such individuals or that it would have changed this particular man's beliefs. It's more complicated than that. Obviously, you know that...but I felt compelled to contribute what I think is a balancing perspective on Kennedy's motivations.
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#13
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"Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you earn it and win it in every generation." Coretta Scott King |
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#14
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Billy Graham is the real article. I also admire him (though I don't always agree with him or share his understanding of the Gospel totally.) His son Franklin on the other hand isn't of the same quality as his Dad. |
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#15
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tdogg,
I don't think Billy Graham ever stood up for LGBT rights. However I think the situation is much too complex for a black and white divide. I think a lot of shades of grey come into play. I think a very large group of Christians think homosexuality is a sin. They aren't necessarily against us, but simply uninformed. We are all products of our conditioning. My mother is one of those who thinks homosexuality is a sin, but she would never do anything to hurt anyone (was in that group myself just recently). She accepted my stepbrother and his partner without any malice or reservation. She is one of those who isn't for us nor against either. I think a lot of people are in that situation. I think education is they key. Those who don't oppose gay rights may very well someday become our allies. A lot of Christianity just has never thought that gay and Christian can go together. It is up to us to show that they can. I think there is a large middle ground that is ready to hear the message if it can just be proclaimed. I don't think Billy Graham will ever be a spokesman for LGBT rights, but I think more and more of the younger evangelists will. (Unfortunately I agree with Dave that Franklin Graham probably isn't one of them.) Tu Amigo, Pablo
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For I am convinced that neither life nor death...neither the present nor the future nor anything in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39 |
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#16
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Thanks for you thoughts on this one, both of you.
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"Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you earn it and win it in every generation." Coretta Scott King |
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#17
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Here's a quote from Billy Graham from almost 10 years ago.
"I think that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin, but the Bible also teaches that pride is a sin, jealously is a sin, and hate is a sin, evil thoughts are a sin, and so I don't think that homosexuality should be chosen as the overwhelming sin that we are doing today." Billy Graham, 20/20 program, 1997-MAY-2 Steven Webster |
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#18
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Quote:
__________________
"Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you earn it and win it in every generation." Coretta Scott King |
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#19
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I did not even know that James Kenedy died. Makes me wonder why so many right wingers are suddenly being exsposed and dieing lately? I think God is cleanning house. I think He is Tired of these kind of people useing Him for their prejudices,equating nationalism and Christianity, and wealth all supposingly in His name..
I have gotten to the point in my Christian walk that I do not look up to any evangelist or religious speaker any more. So, I find myself to be more loving and tolerant, I have this new wonderful relationship with Jesus and and am able to truely see what Christ was like when He walked this earth.
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"Still, the Bible is like a mirror. You end up reading it not as a reflection of how it is but of how you are. If you're a bigoted, narrow person, you will find bigotry in the Bible." D. Tammet |
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