Is it Now General BetrayUs?

[BruceChris]

Soulforcers:

A moment ago on Public Radio, the suggestion was made by Cokie Roberts, that the testimony given today will show us whether General Petraeus is really General Betray us.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

(Edit) I'm now listening to the congressional testimony, I'll get back to you.

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by BruceChris

Soulforcers:

A moment ago on Public Radio, the suggestion was made by Cokie Roberts, that the testimony given today will show us whether General Petraeus is really General Betray us.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

I don't think Cokie was saying that herself, but quoting someone--I thought she was quoting Move On.org

I think it's generally a mistake to poke fun at people's names---kind of juvenile. Also Cokie reported that the public still trusts the military as an institution and military people. Personal attacks on Petreus may not be the best way to attack the President's irrational policy in Iraq, a policy that it doing long-term damage to our military.

Steven Webster

[BruceChris]

Steven:

I was unaware that MoveOn.Org was the probable source of this comment. The newscasters at NPR have been known to come up with this sort of commentary on their own now and then.

If you had grown up with a last name like mine, you would have soon learned the difference between a grade schooler's cute word associations, and genuine rejection of one's self or behavior.

Maybe I'm not having the best day, but there is so much verbiage, and so little direct commentary, that I am going to withhold judgment until Dan Schor and Co. have time to address this session, and that does not look like any time soon. Edit Later.

P&L, BC

[Progo35]

Generally, I think that Moveon.org is full of it. They will smear anyone who doesn't support their specific agenda, which is extremely anti war to the point of advocating a "drop it and run" approach regardless of the potential consequences. Now, I'm not saying that one cannot reasonably oppose the war...but their tactics are unfair and make them an unreliable source of information.

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by Progo35

Generally, I think that Moveon.org is full of it. They will smear anyone who doesn't support their specific agenda, which is extremely anti war to the point of advocating a "drop it and run" approach regardless of the potential consequences. Now, I'm not saying that one cannot reasonably oppose the war...but their tactics are unfair and make them an unreliable source of information.

I believe the "Betray-us" slur is definitely a mistake.

I also believe the Iraq war was a big mistake--if not actually a cynical deception by the Cheney-Bush crowd. We need to disengage and redeploy in the most orderly and well planned and executed way possible.

What we are trying to do in Iraq is impose some kind of order from the outside (after we destroyed the "order" that already was there). The trouble is that our idea of "order" does not match the various visions of "order" that the Iraqi people hold. We'd like a nice, unified, orderly Iraq peacefully producing oil for the west. The various Iraqi factions have their own ideas about what is important, what is just, and what needs to happen.

We simply don't have enough troops, and never will, to impose our vision of order on that country. The Petreus proposal for future troop reductions are not based on "success," but based on the fact that we cannot sustain the current troop levels beyond six months. When we "take the lid off" off this boiling pot over there, things are going to go back to the way they were before the surge.

We should redirect all the resources being wasted in Iraq towards getting over our dependence on oil. There is no question that we are there for the oil. That oil does not belong to us. We can only continue to extract it from the Middle East by force. Our over-reliance on oil and other fossil fuels is destroying our planet. We've got to make a big change in direction and soon!

Steven Webster

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Steven E. Webster

We should redirect all the resources being wasted in Iraq towards getting over our dependence on oil. There is no question that we are there for the oil. That oil does not belong to us. We can only continue to extract it from the Middle East by force. Our over-reliance on oil and other fossil fuels is destroying our planet. We've got to make a big change in direction and soon!

How different things would be if, instead of ramping up the war machine, our country had made the clear-sighted decision to wean ourselves from oil. But no. Addicts want their fix. Even if it kills them.....they want their fix.

How do you send a country to detox?

[BruceChris]

It seems clear to me that each side has pretty much defined the questions asked, and their interpretation of the answers given as putting them in the "right". The waters have been further muddied, leading one side to proclaim White!, and the other to point with pride at Black!

O.K., Steven and Daniel, I have to admit that what you guys say pretty much covers it, and that the general has not so much brought us lies, as given the president plausible deniability. And perhaps even W has learned that there are limits as to what he can say, in a harsh public spotlite, and get away with. The maintenance of the present Iraq would seem to require the presence of about 100,000 troops indefinitly.

Progo, If the MoveOn people are trying to tell us that they are Mad AS Hell about the war in particular, and the entire Bush administration in general, I cannot judge them harshly for that. I feel that way too, I just don't have the energy to do other than prepare for the '08 elections.

I believe that this war was insanity to get into, the money and energy should have gone into domestic and foriegn needs, and that it was sick, if not down right "evil" for Rove, Cheney and the Neocons to use fear, ignorance, and lies to stampede the congress, and the American people.

It's not easy to be true to my values, and still address the Bush administration coherently.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[BruceChris]

The design of our new church and GLBT elderhousing is coming nicely. We hope to get geothermal heating, with lots of insulation, and energy efficient appliances and lighting. Low loss windows, a green roof, a greywater system, and some passive solar. We are near a cross city bike path, and we are staying in an immigrant and mixed neighborhood, not fleeing to the suburbs.

I guess I'm hijacking my own thread, but Steven and Daniel do have a point.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[Progo35]

I don't have a problem with Move on expressing its opinion...but, I do have a problem with the fact that it seems to want to brainwash the people who access their site into thinking that Bush is the most evil person ever to walk the earth and that 9/11 was our fault. I just don't like hystericity, regardless of who's pushing it, which is why I never cared for Jerry Falwell's tactics in reaching the nation.