I Love the Lord

[PittsburghJeff]

Everynight I sign onto Soulforce and I read all the threads and comments, however, I have to admit that many nights I spend praying afterwards because I leave with such an uncomfortable feeling. Most nights I begin debating my own faith and trying to reconcile or rationalize my homosexuality to my beliefs. But what I believe in is not the intellectual discussions, but I find myself trusting my own feelings inside and I review my own life and can feel the Lord walking right along beside me in my journey. I feel God's presence in my life.

I don't think that the Christian right leaders will ever understand our plight, unless they became us. Their views of the bible will always be based on their own life experience and not God's experience. I actually feel sorry for them, because when you hear their sermons, either they are talking about the end times or there always has to be an enemy like homosexuals and abortionist, etc. I don't think Jesus ever gave his love by either threatening people, using fear or legislating love from the temple or the Roman Empire. But in all the biblical stories I have read, the people felt His love and acceptance without even Him mentioning the word love.

I am glad I am gay. I feel like the Lord gave me a life as a gay man so I can really understand his message of love, forgiveness, and salvation. He taught me by my being that "the truth will set you free", when I came out; he taught me that we love others as we love ourselves, the more I have advanced in my life and have loved/accepted myself, the more my arms are outstretched to embrace others. He especially taught me about faith, because I had to believe in myself, even when no one else could explain to me why I was different. What an incredible living testament to his words of "believing without seeing". I think to myself, what if being gay is a real gift from God and it is a really special gift and special blessing. When I read the scripture, the words feel like they just roll out from the pages and not only do I intellectually understand them, but I can feel them. I can sense the love that Jesus had in his heart for the multitudes of people that were not served by the religious establishment of His day, because I had the opportunity to feel oppression in my own life.

I think if God asked me tomorrow, whether I'd want to be straight or gay. I would tell him I would want to be gay. I feel that if I was straight, I would miss the opportunity to have the depth of feelings that I do about God, life and myself.

In the day of the Lord, so much of what the religious establishment thought and how they acted was contrary to Christ's teaching. I don't think our present world is different from the time of Christ.

I just thought I'd share my thoughts with you. Peace and Blessings to you.

[u-dog]

PJ !

Thank you for that post! It was truly beautiful. You said SO MUCH of what I have been thinking and feeling over the last couple of years ... and decades. Jesus entered to world from the bottom and from the edges (a manger in a barn out behind a fleebag hotel in a widespot in the road outside a dusty provincial capital way out where God left his overshoes) He spent his life touching the untouchables, loving the unlovables, being outside with the outsiders. Consequently, being outsiders gives us an insight into the nature of God's love in Christ that insiders will be hard pressed to find. And lets face it ... right wing Christians in this day and age are mostly insiders.

Please keep sharin your insights with us!

[Pablo Rafael]

Originally Posted by PittsburghJeff

I am glad I am gay. I feel like the Lord gave me a life as a gay man so I can really understand his message of love, forgiveness, and salvation. He taught me by my being that "the truth will set you free", when I came out; he taught me that we love others as we love ourselves, the more I have advanced in my life and have loved/accepted myself, the more my arms are outstretched to embrace others. He especially taught me about faith, because I had to believe in myself, even when no one else could explain to me why I was different. What an incredible living testament to his words of "believing without seeing". I think to myself, what if being gay is a real gift from God and it is a really special gift and special blessing. When I read the scripture, the words feel like they just roll out from the pages and not only do I intellectually understand them, but I can feel them. I can sense the love that Jesus had in his heart for the multitudes of people that were not served by the religious establishment of His day, because I had the opportunity to feel oppression in my own life.

I think if God asked me tomorrow, whether I'd want to be straight or gay. I would tell him I would want to be gay. I feel that if I was straight, I would miss the opportunity to have the depth of feelings that I do about God, life and myself.

Jeff,

What an encouragement your words are. I hope that someday I can get to the level of faith that you have. I guess I have spent so long battling against being gay, covering it up, praying to change, that I haven't ever been able to really love and embrace the path that God has chosen for me. (I'm getting closer though.)

If God asked me to choose between being gay or straight, I don't know if I would choose to be gay. It is a more difficult path. But I am sure God knows more than I do. Slowly God is getting the idea into this hard head of mine.

It does seem to me that LGBT people have a deep empathy and desire to love others. I have felt it with those I have met in these forums.

Thanks for the words of faith. I really needed to hear them.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

[BenL]

Originally Posted by PittsburghJeff

I think if God asked me tomorrow, whether I'd want to be straight or gay. I would tell him I would want to be gay. I feel that if I was straight, I would miss the opportunity to have the depth of feelings that I do about God, life and myself.

Jeff,

After years of praying that this thorn of gayness would be taken away from me, I now thank God every day for making me gay, WHO I AM. (Note to self: explore the I-am-ness that this allows me to share with the One Who Is. Another blessing.)

Human nature being created and limited by space and time, people most easily define God through their own experience and see righteousness from their own perspective. God transcends all of this. Creating and loving gay people is, I think, one of the many ways God discomforts the comfortable who think that they have a monopoly on understanding God's wisdom.

Thanks for your post.

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by PittsburghJeff

. . . what I believe in is not the intellectual discussions, but I find myself trusting my own feelings inside and I review my own life and can feel the Lord walking right along beside me in my journey. I feel God's presence in my life.

I don't think that the Christian right leaders will ever understand our plight, unless they became us. Their views of the bible will always be based on their own life experience and not God's experience. I actually feel sorry for them, because when you hear their sermons, either they are talking about the end times or there always has to be an enemy like homosexuals and abortionist, etc. I don't think Jesus ever gave his love by either threatening people, using fear or legislating love from the temple or the Roman Empire. But in all the biblical stories I have read, the people felt His love and acceptance without even Him mentioning the word love.

I am glad I am gay. I feel like the Lord gave me a life as a gay man so I can really understand his message of love, forgiveness, and salvation. He taught me by my being that "the truth will set you free", when I came out; he taught me that we love others as we love ourselves, the more I have advanced in my life and have loved/accepted myself, the more my arms are outstretched to embrace others. He especially taught me about faith, because I had to believe in myself, even when no one else could explain to me why I was different. What an incredible living testament to his words of "believing without seeing". I think to myself, what if being gay is a real gift from God and it is a really special gift and special blessing. When I read the scripture, the words feel like they just roll out from the pages and not only do I intellectually understand them, but I can feel them. I can sense the love that Jesus had in his heart for the multitudes of people that were not served by the religious establishment of His day, because I had the opportunity to feel oppression in my own life.

I think if God asked me tomorrow, whether I'd want to be straight or gay. I would tell him I would want to be gay. I feel that if I was straight, I would miss the opportunity to have the depth of feelings that I do about God, life and myself.

In the day of the Lord, so much of what the religious establishment thought and how they acted was contrary to Christ's teaching. I don't think our present world is different from the time of Christ.

I just thought I'd share my thoughts with you. Peace and Blessings to you.

Jeff,
Thank you for your testimony! You write as a true Methodist/Wesleyan! I, too, believe that faith involves the direct experience of God and does not depend on clergy gate-keepers with their interpretations of the Bible. The Fundamentalists want to deny all experience and replace our faith in God with belief in their interpretations of Scripture. To them it makes no difference if we read the Scripture differently--we have to conform to their interpretations. Our experiences do not count.

I know that when I came to a realization of my own gayness I felt closer to God. My prayer life was very important. I even argued with God, "Why did you make me gay?" I think God's answer was that there is a purpose--a task or tasks that I was called to accomplish in this life. I never felt that God had left me or that I had to get approval from some Pastor or church to be right with God. Luckily, I did have the support and fellowship of a pastor and a church that was open to hear and accept how God was working in my life, even if it was a struggle for them too.

That was almost 40 years ago now! It's been an exciting life! God has been at work in the lives of many LGBT people, in the movement we have built and in the churches that have changed and grown with us.

Steven Webster

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by PittsburghJeff

Everynight I sign onto Soulforce and I read all the threads and comments, however, I have to admit that many nights I spend praying afterwards because I leave with such an uncomfortable feeling. Most nights I begin debating my own faith and trying to reconcile or rationalize my homosexuality to my beliefs. But what I believe in is not the intellectual discussions, but I find myself trusting my own feelings inside and I review my own life and can feel the Lord walking right along beside me in my journey. I feel God's presence in my life.

I don't think that the Christian right leaders will ever understand our plight, unless they became us. Their views of the bible will always be based on their own life experience and not God's experience. I actually feel sorry for them, because when you hear their sermons, either they are talking about the end times or there always has to be an enemy like homosexuals and abortionist, etc. I don't think Jesus ever gave his love by either threatening people, using fear or legislating love from the temple or the Roman Empire. But in all the biblical stories I have read, the people felt His love and acceptance without even Him mentioning the word love.

I am glad I am gay. I feel like the Lord gave me a life as a gay man so I can really understand his message of love, forgiveness, and salvation. He taught me by my being that "the truth will set you free", when I came out; he taught me that we love others as we love ourselves, the more I have advanced in my life and have loved/accepted myself, the more my arms are outstretched to embrace others. He especially taught me about faith, because I had to believe in myself, even when no one else could explain to me why I was different. What an incredible living testament to his words of "believing without seeing". I think to myself, what if being gay is a real gift from God and it is a really special gift and special blessing. When I read the scripture, the words feel like they just roll out from the pages and not only do I intellectually understand them, but I can feel them. I can sense the love that Jesus had in his heart for the multitudes of people that were not served by the religious establishment of His day, because I had the opportunity to feel oppression in my own life.

I think if God asked me tomorrow, whether I'd want to be straight or gay. I would tell him I would want to be gay. I feel that if I was straight, I would miss the opportunity to have the depth of feelings that I do about God, life and myself.

In the day of the Lord, so much of what the religious establishment thought and how they acted was contrary to Christ's teaching. I don't think our present world is different from the time of Christ.

I just thought I'd share my thoughts with you. Peace and Blessings to you.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I sooooooo agree with you. Gayness is a curse and a blessing...but I will say that I'm so much more focussed on the blessing part now.

I have a wonderful sister. I love her intensely. She's a terrific person; she's godly; she has risen to the many challenges life has given her and those she loves and who love her; I admire her greatly.

She is also straight.

In this very particular aspect, life has been easy to her. She never had to explain her sexuality; she never had to explain her reason to want to have children; her intimate love with her partner was never called into question or looked upon as "sick".

Easy, right?

No.

Anything but.

My brother-in-law was diagnosed with MS when my sister was pregnant with my oldest nephew. They, as a couple, know what it is to suffer, as well as to explain to people something that is going on that most people don't understand.

But, through all their trials, they always had the respect and love of their relatives and loved ones.

Gay people have none of that.

I will never have a "wedding". I will never be "registered" somewhere. I am one of 6 siblings (steps- included), and I am one of two who isn't married, and I am the only one who doesn't own a house.

I don't care about the "things". What I do care about is the obvious disparity between the value of my relationships and that of my siblings.

When is that addressed?

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by PittsburghJeff

Everynight I sign onto Soulforce and I read all the threads and comments, however, I have to admit that many nights I spend praying afterwards because I leave with such an uncomfortable feeling.

Jeff? Why do you feel uncomfortable after reading the forum? Would you mind sharing that? This information saddens me.

The rest of your post was a treat and a joy to read. Thank you.

Zerbie

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

I sooooooo agree with you. Gayness is a curse and a blessing...but I will say that I'm so much more focussed on the blessing part now.

Gayness is 100% blessing. The curse you're seeing is the curse of the ignorance and callousness that other people levy against you. That's not part of gayness. That comes from ignorance and cruelty only.



I will never have a "wedding".

Don't say that! David, don't ever say that! You are still young men - you have decades ahead of you. We will have marriage equality in your lifetime.

what I do care about is the obvious disparity between the value of my relationships and that of my siblings.

When is that addressed?

We are addressing it right now. It is painfully slow and I do know that, but David, your words left me aching with sorrow! We *are* addressing it. We will fix this problem. We will have much of this resolved within your lifetime. I know it is painful to hope, but I'm asking you to hope anyway. Please. For me.

[u-dog]

I will never have a "wedding". I will never be "registered" somewhere. I am one of 6 siblings (steps- included), and I am one of two who isn't married, and I am the only one who doesn't own a house.

1. name the place and time (preferably on handmade embossed paper with gold leaf tied with a ribbon) and I'll be there.

2. name the china pattern and I'll be buying you a place setting (wrapped up in paper with silver bells on it and bow on top.)

3. slap down the down payment and I'll be on your front porch with a loaf of bread, a bottle of wine, and a pound of salt!

4. ask me real nice and I will prayerfully consider bringing my black preacher's robe and violating my ordination vows.

5. can I baptize your first kid?

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by u-dog

1. name the place and time (preferably on handmade embossed paper with gold leaf tied with a ribbon) and I'll be there.

2. name the china pattern and I'll be buying you a place setting (wrapped up in paper with silver bells on it and bow on top.)

3. slap down the down payment and I'll be on your front porch with a loaf of bread, a bottle of wine, and a pound of salt!

4. ask me real nice and I will prayerfully consider bringing my black preacher's robe and violating my ordination vows.

5. can I baptize your first kid?

:-D

Ok!

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by u-dog

1. name the place and time (preferably on handmade embossed paper with gold leaf tied with a ribbon) and I'll be there.

2. name the china pattern and I'll be buying you a place setting (wrapped up in paper with silver bells on it and bow on top.)

3. slap down the down payment and I'll be on your front porch with a loaf of bread, a bottle of wine, and a pound of salt!

4. ask me real nice and I will prayerfully consider bringing my black preacher's robe and violating my ordination vows.

5. can I baptize your first kid?

A very good friend of mine was just married (he says, "Tell people who wouldn't get it that I was 'committed.' They'll believe that.") and they registered! A lot of places are now accepting registration for committment ceremonies ... in fact, on the Bed, Bath, and Beyond site (where I got their gift, and for the mention of which I get no kickback whatsoever) has a field in the registration info for "type of ceremony" and includes "commitment ceremony" as one of the choices.

And may I say I think I'm getting jaded ... the "Can I baptize your first kid?" line didn't even strike me as funny until the third or fourth read.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by BrentRichards

A very good friend of mine was just married (he says, "Tell people who wouldn't get it that I was 'committed.' They'll believe that.") and they registered! A lot of places are now accepting registration for committment ceremonies ... in fact, on the Bed, Bath, and Beyond site (where I got their gift, and for the mention of which I get no kickback whatsoever) has a field in the registration info for "type of ceremony" and includes "commitment ceremony" as one of the choices.

And may I say I think I'm getting jaded ... the "Can I baptize your first kid?" line didn't even strike me as funny until the third or fourth read.

It could happen.

Oh, alright...I know...I haven't a womb.

Well, rest assured; they shall be the pitter-patter of little paws, eventually. And we may just want them baptized...or blessed...or whatever.

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

It could happen.

Oh, alright...I know...I haven't a womb.

Well, rest assured; they shall be the pitter-patter of little paws, eventually. And we may just want them baptized...or blessed...or whatever.

Do Moels do neutering? Ooo, on second thought, I hope not!

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by BrentRichards

Do Moels do neutering? Ooo, on second thought, I hope not!

Oooooo, I have a great joke on this subject!

[PittsburghJeff]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Jeff? Why do you feel uncomfortable after reading the forum? Would you mind sharing that? This information saddens me.

The rest of your post was a treat and a joy to read. Thank you.

Zerbie

Dear Zerbie

Hello and Peace to you.

What I meant by the statement that "I feel uncomfortable after reading the forum" is in reference to post relating to the gentleman at Wheaton and others that continue their discussions against LGBT persons. When I read those post I begin to doubt my own faith and sometimes I can see the same struggles with others as they try to reconcile their faith with their sexual orientation. It makes me sad. There should be no debate.

Its interesting that you brought this up though. That same morning I was praying to the Lord and while I prayed about the unkind words we sometimes hear from the church, I kept hearing a thought that said to me "remember Christ's birth" So I started to think about Christ's birth and reflect on the scripture.

I started to think about the biblical scholars of that day and the priests in the temple and thought, isn't it strange that with all of their knowledge and reflection on the scripture and prophecies that they didn't even recognize Jesus when he was standing before them. I always thought it was strange, because the Jews of that time, not only did they read the scripture, they would even study each word and its meaning. Probably even more so than scholars today. In the midst of all those words was a prophecy about a Messiah that was to be born to deliver them. I really think that the Messiah they were looking for was a Messiah that would look like a king(more like a political leader). Probably a King filled with the power and glory of God that would come and conquer the Roman Empire by force or great miracles and remove them from oppression. Meanwhile, God did deliver a Messiah, but he was born in the lowliest of humans. Born humble in a stable.

Here is Jesus standing before them, and with all their biblical wisdom, intellectual capacity and knowledge, they couldn't even see him.

What this shows me is that the temple scholars and priests read the scripture, brought their own life experience to the bible and saw what they wanted to see. However, that might have been their will, but it wasn't God's will. When I reflect on those passages and experience, I think that that is very simliar to the church today. We have heterosexual church leaders bringing their own experience to the bible to interpret scripture. SO they create a bible that holds true to the heterosexual experience. But, their acceptance and understanding and delivery of the scripture reflects their will. It is not God's will.

Probably God's will is reflected in the total of all human experience. I think when we are missing from the church, then I have to believe that they can't experience the fullness of God's salvation and love. Just a thought.

Anyway, it is a pleasure being on here. I have been praying alot recently and it actually is making my faith much stronger.

Thanks for reading my thoughts. Jeff

[u-dog]

Jeff,

Your prayerful reflection is RIGHT ON THE MONEY! People always read the scriptures through the lens of their own experience and transform what they read there into an "idol" -- an image of themselves which they call "God".

The gift that WE bring -- and the reason that the church needs us -- is that we bring the view from the "outside" We bear witness to the reality that ALL experience is not like THEIR experience and so God is and must be MORE than what they know and have experienced.

But this is unsettling to them and that is why they are SO ADAMENT that our very human experience of ourselves must not be heard or listened to.

They say that they love and honor God, but they are afraid to allow God to be bigger than the box that they have built for him. Sometimes I think that God created GLBT people expressly for the purpose of SMASHING THEIR BOX and letting God out!

Dave

[Gennee]

Jeff, one of the greatest days of my life was when I accepted my transgenderism and crossdressing. The nagging feeling of being different went away. I was liberated and completed. Just this past week my love has grown for lesbians, gays, and bisexuals. Being transgendered has opened my heart to people are maligned I some way by society.

I love the friends that I have made and look forward to making more. Jeff, God loves us no matter what. There are no rejects in His kingdom.

Gennee

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by PittsburghJeff

Dear Zerbie

Hello and Peace to you.

What I meant by the statement that "I feel uncomfortable after reading the forum" is in reference to post relating to the gentleman at Wheaton and others that continue their discussions against LGBT persons. When I read those post I begin to doubt my own faith and sometimes I can see the same struggles with others as they try to reconcile their faith with their sexual orientation. It makes me sad. There should be no debate.

It is very sad. I'm sorry to hear that those words plant doubts in your heart. God's love is infinite, Jeff. No one should be put in a position of justifying their very existence.

Its interesting that you brought this up though. That same morning I was praying to the Lord and while I prayed about the unkind words we sometimes hear from the church, I kept hearing a thought that said to me "remember Christ's birth" So I started to think about Christ's birth and reflect on the scripture.

I started to think about the biblical scholars of that day and the priests in the temple and thought, isn't it strange that with all of their knowledge and reflection on the scripture and prophecies that they didn't even recognize Jesus when he was standing before them. I always thought it was strange, because the Jews of that time, not only did they read the scripture, they would even study each word and its meaning. Probably even more so than scholars today. In the midst of all those words was a prophecy about a Messiah that was to be born to deliver them. I really think that the Messiah they were looking for was a Messiah that would look like a king(more like a political leader). Probably a King filled with the power and glory of God that would come and conquer the Roman Empire by force or great miracles and remove them from oppression. Meanwhile, God did deliver a Messiah, but he was born in the lowliest of humans. Born humble in a stable.

Here is Jesus standing before them, and with all their biblical wisdom, intellectual capacity and knowledge, they couldn't even see him.

Right. Amazing, isn't it, that Jesus could be right in front of us and we might not see him?
These stories exist in other traditions too. God, fully manifested on earth, and people failed to know what they were seeing.


I think when we are missing from the church, then I have to believe that they can't experience the fullness of God's salvation and love. Just a thought.

I believe so.

Anyway, it is a pleasure being on here. I have been praying alot recently and it actually is making my faith much stronger.

Jeff

I am glad to hear that. Thank you for your prayers, too, Jeff.

[tdogg]

Welcome Jeff! Glad you are posting on the forums. Thanks for sharing your story, it was very touching. We are blessed, because we are different and yet not. The 'difference' is only an imposition placed on us by those who are judgmental, and by necessities for us to get through life without equality.

In God's eyes, the difference might be, that we demonstrate more loving kindness and acceptance, just like Jesus did in his day. How wonderful to be blessed by being different in that way.

Welcome and looking forward to you sharing more!!

Tdogg