The Cloud of Unknowing

[Daniel]

Some some reason, I pulled this book down off my bookshelf tonight. It's been waiting for me for some time. I've read about it, but haven't actually read it until now- I'm well into chapter nine (the chapters are short!)

Many have compared its instruction to that which is encountered in Buddhism, which is right up my alley.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_of_Unknowing

The text can be downloaded here.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/anonymous2/cloud.html

Have you read it? Has it informed you life in any particular way? Do you practice Centering Prayer?

Thoughts?

[Steven E. Webster]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Some some reason, I pulled this book down off my bookshelf tonight. It's been waiting for me for some time. I've read about it, but haven't actually read it until now- I'm well into chapter nine (the chapters are short!)

Many have compared its instruction to that which is encountered in Buddhism, which is right up my alley.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_of_Unknowing

The text can be downloaded here.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/anonymous2/cloud.html

Have you read it? Has it informed you life in any particular way? Do you practice Centering Prayer?

Thoughts?

Daniel,
I LOVED the Cloud of Unknowing when I read it about 30 years ago! It's SO British, so empirical, so grounded! At the same time I was also reading books like "The Way of a Pilgrim" which is a story (a kind of spiritual autobiography) from the Russian Orthodox tradition. "The Way of a Pilgrim" deals a great deal with a method of prayer which is sometimes compared with the use of a repetitive mantra. The prayer is to be coordinated with the breath and heartbeat.

Those two books together have really informed my approach to prayer. It may be that "The Way of a Pilgrim" plays a bigger role with me in that it describes a technique for some one who's "on the move." I'm much more a mover than a sitter when it comes to prayer.

I was particularly struck by the Cloud's skepticism. I remember an interestings chapter where the author refers to directing ones thoughts upwards or heaven-wards---and then stops to explain that "up" is just a metaphor, not to be taken literally.

I believe Cloud also makes references to using something like a mantra. E.g. the repetition of, or meditation on the word "Love."

Steven Webster

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Steven E. Webster

Daniel,
I LOVED the Cloud of Unknowing when I read it about 30 years ago! It's SO British, so empirical, so grounded! At the same time I was also reading books like "The Way of a Pilgrim" which is a story (a kind of spiritual autobiography) from the Russian Orthodox tradition. "The Way of a Pilgrim" deals a great deal with a method of prayer which is sometimes compared with the use of a repetitive mantra. The prayer is to be coordinated with the breath and heartbeat.

Steven- thank you for reminding me about "The Way of the Pilgrim", which I read years ago, via a friend who has since joined a Orthodox brotherhood here in the NYC. You are exactly right. As I'm finding, the two books have much in common, none the least of which is their empirical perspective. Both fairly cut to the chase, as it were.

Those two books together have really informed my approach to prayer. It may be that "The Way of a Pilgrim" plays a bigger role with me in that it describes a technique for some one who's "on the move." I'm much more a mover than a sitter when it comes to prayer.

You remind me of the phrase "Stillness in motion", a quality which describes a state of being. Oh....to have that in the up and down of life.

I was particularly struck by the Cloud's skepticism. I remember an interestings chapter where the author refers to directing ones thoughts upwards or heaven-wards---and then stops to explain that "up" is just a metaphor, not to be taken literally.

I believe Cloud also makes references to using something like a mantra. E.g. the repetition of, or meditation on the word "Love."

Yes- I got to this part last night- chapter nine.

"Therefore, when you set yourself to this exercise, and experience by grace that you are called by God to it, then lift up your heart to God by a humble impulse to love, and mean the God who made you and ramsomed you, and has in his greace called you to this exercise. Have no other thought of God; and not even any of these thoughts unless it should please you. For a simple reaching out directly towards God is sufficient, without any other cause except himself. If you like, you can have this reaching out, wrapping up and enfolded in a single word. So as to have a better grasp of it, take just a little word, of one syllable rather than of two; for the shorter it is the better it in in agreement with this exercise of the spirit. Such a ons is the word "God" or the word "love." ....Fasten this word to your heart, so that whatever happens it will never go away. This word is your shield and spear, whether you are riding in peace or in war. With this word you are to beat upon this cloud and this darkness above you. With this word you are to strike down every kind of thought under the cloud of forgetting; so that if any thought should press upon you and ask you what you would have, answer it with no other word but with this one."

So very Zen.....

And being a musician, it reminds me of how one goes about practicing scales. It's much more than hitting the right notes, having everything to do with concentration and awareness. At some point, there is nothing but the scale. It's the whole world. Or a window into one.

One perspective.

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/teams/clunintr.htm

[Dash]

I almost think I've read this...or another book that was based on the kind of "mantra-like" prayer that you bring up. It would have been in 1995-6...

I have my own cloud of unknowing...like a something out of a Steven King book...a pursuing mist in my memory, swallowing up my past in a gray fog that unravels much of what I have known. I have to keep moving forward and learning, or I'm afraid that one day it will catch up with me and unweave my mind. All that remains after this unmaking cloud passes over my memory, I imagine must be of greater substance and importance.

One day, I suppose I will stop, turn....and, no doubt with some trepidation, plunge into that vast billowing wall of nothing...to be unmade, and see what remains.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by Dash

I almost think I've read this...or another book that was based on the kind of "mantra-like" prayer that you bring up. It would have been in 1995-6...

I have my own cloud of unknowing...like a something out of a Steven King book...a pursuing mist in my memory, swallowing up my past in a gray fog that unravels much of what I have known. I have to keep moving forward and learning, or I'm afraid that one day it will catch up with me and unweave my mind. All that remains after this unmaking cloud passes over my memory, I imagine must be of greater substance and importance.

One day, I suppose I will stop, turn....and, no doubt with some trepidation, plunge into that vast billowing wall of nothing...to be unmade, and see what remains.

You better bring me with you, Bucko!