Aging and Gay

[Daniel]

The following article should concern everyone here. Let's face it: we're all going to get old. It's only a matter of time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/us/09aged.html?hp

Aging and Gay, and Facing Prejudice in Twilight

By JANE GROSS
Published: October 9, 2007
Even now, at 81 and with her memory beginning to fade, Gloria Donadello recalls her painful brush with bigotry at an assisted-living center in Santa Fe, N.M. Sitting with those she considered friends, “people were laughing and making certain kinds of comments, and I told them, ‘Please don’t do that, because I’m gay."

James Estrin/The New York Times
Jalna Perry of Boston said her guard was always up in nursing homes.
The result of her outspokenness, Ms. Donadello said, was swift and merciless. “Everyone looked horrified,” she said. No longer included in conversation or welcome at meals, she plunged into depression. Medication did not help. With her emotional health deteriorating, Ms. Donadello moved into an adult community nearby that caters to gay men and lesbians.

Being gay and aging has been on my mind lately: now that I'm closing in on 50, I'm investigating long term health insurance. And my husband has been interning at SAGE (Senior Action in a Gay Environment) here in NYC as part of his MSW degree.

Reading this article made me cry, especially towards the end. Here you have two guys who've been together for 20 years and they may have to go back in the closet should they go into nursing homes.

Could be us.

As the article state, California is the only state which addresses the matter. We need this nationwide.

I don't want to be going back in the closet when I'm 80. No way.

[dsdrane]

I saw this, too, and it reminded me of a conversation years ago -- I think in Arizona, where I was attending wedding -- about how specifically gay and lesbian senior housing was going to be the next big thing.

But I haven't really heard anyting about it since then. Even living in God's Waiting Room (South Florida) the last two years.

Some smart, enterprising person will one day realize that all those twinkies shakin' their collective groove thangs are going to want a cool place to electric slide into their dotage. I know I will.

My line, when preparing to move to Florida, was that I was headed there to scout out just the right place for my gay friends, where we'd one day sit by the pool, play cards, and pinch the pool boy's butt when he went by.

Someone get David Geffen on the phone...!

[Zerbie]

David, you crack me up.

They're doing the gay senior housing thing in Santa Fe, I believe - I think I get ads to buy a home there in the mail periodically - seems to me I've held the brochure, and I wouldn't have gone out of my way to get one.

SAGE. That was supposed to be my first volunteer experience. I signed up when I was about 20. Then my voice teacher - who used to ask questions about my life - found out, and scared me out of it. She said if I volunteered for SAGE I would never have a singing career. Then that was when a grad student (who was gay himself) started putting the pressure on me NOT to ever volunteer for the gay community. They scared me to death while managing to make me feel guilty at the same time, so of course I dropped out before I ever went to my first meeting or training or whatever. Plead "busy." I still regret it.

I really like working with old people - wonder if there's anything like that around my area. I haven't heard about it.

Sorry to be so tangential Daniel. The subject makes me think of many things. And I'd be pissed as h*ll if you guys had to go in the closet when you're 80! (Why not just keep living in your apartment? You guys are strong and agile - you'll be strong and agile when you're 80.)

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

I saw this, too, and it reminded me of a conversation years ago -- I think in Arizona, where I was attending wedding -- about how specifically gay and lesbian senior housing was going to be the next big thing.

But I haven't really heard anyting about it since then. Even living in God's Waiting Room (South Florida) the last two years.

Some smart, enterprising person will one day realize that all those twinkies shakin' their collective groove thangs are going to want a cool place to electric slide into their dotage. I know I will.

My line, when preparing to move to Florida, was that I was headed there to scout out just the right place for my gay friends, where we'd one day sit by the pool, play cards, and pinch the pool boy's butt when he went by.

Someone get David Geffen on the phone...!

I have seen a few ads for Gay sr. retirement facilities. a few, and maybe it was several ads, but all for just one place. let's invest. Now!

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by keltic63

I have seen a few ads for Gay sr. retirement facilities. a few, and maybe it was several ads, but all for just one place. let's invest. Now!

Seriously.

[BenL]

I'm very worried about where Charley and I will spend our retirement. Even in liberal MA there is only superficial tolerance for gay people. Don't hold hands in public. No kissing. No PDAs (public dispalays of affection). Nothing in your face, unlike heteros' freedom to slobber all over each other.

When my dad was in assisted living before he died in January 2005, there was an obviously gay man who lived there. The man was polite but reserved. Hardly anyone would talk to him. Most people didn't want him at their table for meals. It was awful. My dad didn't care who ate with him; Dad couldn't hear much of anything anyways. Dad did tell me in the privacy of his apartment that the guy was a "hoMOsexual, y'know!" Little did dad know that his own son was one, too.

I"m particularly concerned about where Charley and I might end up if we need extra care that we can't get at home. Yet, I'm not sure we want to be in a gay "ghetto" for our remaining active years. We like all kinds of people, as long as they're accepting of us and our situation. I'm hoping there are more choices available when we reach that stage.

[BrianB]

I was in a nursing home for two months after a very mild stroke. There were many things about which to complain. However, it was surprising how many of the staff were gay. The old fart that was my room mate was very homophobic. Ironically, most of the people taking care of us were gay. We all let him (the old fart) know that we didn't appreciate his homophobic comments. The nursing aides were a bright spot in an otherwise unpleasant period.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by BrianB

I was in a nursing home for two months after a very mild stroke. There were many things about which to complain. However, it was surprising how many of the staff were gay. The old fart that was my room mate was very homophobic. Ironically, most of the people taking care of us were gay. We all let him (the old fart) know that we didn't appreciate his homophobic comments. The nursing aides were a bright spot in an otherwise unpleasant period.

This is a good point, Brian, a high percentage of the nursing aide staff at the place where Polly's mom is living are very upbeat, competant, loving gay people (we're assuming -- gaydar goes off CONSTANTLY there) I don't know which if any of the residents are gay but I can't imagine that they would be descrimiated against by the staff.

[dsdrane]

Y'all must live in the midwest, what with your friendly, corn-fed gay nursing stock.

Oh...wait...so do I now.

Hooray!!

But, lemme tell you, it ain't so in my admittedly limited and hugely unscientific sampling of some metropolitan areas on the East Coast, where it would seem the entire nursing profession is staffed by African-Americans or African-Caribbean Islanders (in NYC, at least, largely from Jamaica).

Gross generalization alert!!

African-American/-Caribbeans are not usually known for their enthusiastic embrace of gaydom; in fact, they're known for quite the reverse. And, whereas I'm pretty sure one's job depends on being "cool" in places like Miami Beach, Fort Lauderdale, the West Village and Chelsea, I would imagine all bets are off for less gay-saturated places.

Obviously, I hope it goes without saying that I welcome any and all stories, experiences, anecdotes arguing the above is complete hogwash, but I though it germane to our discussion.

[BrentRichards]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Y'all must live in the midwest, what with your friendly, corn-fed gay nursing stock.

Oh...wait...so do I now.

Hooray!!

But, lemme tell you, it ain't so in my admittedly limited and hugely unscientific sampling of some metropolitan areas on the East Coast, where it would seem the entire nursing profession is staffed by African-Americans or African-Caribbean Islanders (in NYC, at least, largely from Jamaica).

Gross generalization alert!!

African-American/-Caribbeans are not usually known for their enthusiastic embrace of gaydom; in fact, they're known for quite the reverse. And, whereas I'm pretty sure one's job depends on being "cool" in places like Miami Beach, Fort Lauderdale, the West Village and Chelsea, I would imagine all bets are off for less gay-saturated places.

Obviously, I hope it goes without saying that I welcome any and all stories, experiences, anecdotes arguing the above is complete hogwash, but I though it germane to our discussion.

And I must here remark that when my son was in the hospital a few years ago, one of his nurses was an obviously gay African-Caribbean man from Iowa (ok, I made up the Iowa part, but the rest is true).

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

But, lemme tell you, it ain't so in my admittedly limited and hugely unscientific sampling of some metropolitan areas on the East Coast, where it would seem the entire nursing profession is staffed by African-Americans or African-Caribbean Islanders (in NYC, at least, largely from Jamaica).

Gross generalization alert!!

African-American/-Caribbeans are not usually known for their enthusiastic embrace of gaydom; in fact, they're known for quite the reverse. And, whereas I'm pretty sure one's job depends on being "cool" in places like Miami Beach, Fort Lauderdale, the West Village and Chelsea, I would imagine all bets are off for less gay-saturated places.

Obviously, I hope it goes without saying that I welcome any and all stories, experiences, anecdotes arguing the above is complete hogwash, but I though it germane to our discussion.

My husband is currently getting his Masters is Social Work here in NYC. We talked about this.

David- What you are saying is true. A good deal of the staff is African-American in urban areas like NYC. And yes, their culture has a sharp strain of homophobia running through it. This in not in dispute. But something else is at play too. And that is economics.

If one has the means to get into a good facility, one gets better care generally speaking. That means one has to be able to cough upwards of 1700-6000 a month- depending on the level of care. Of course, many have to spend down their estate before applying for medicare, which then picks up the tab. If one has to go straight to a state facility, one can be subject, whether straight or gay, to mediocre care.

And there's another wrinkle: Congress just passed a law determining the time period for 'look-back' vis-a-vis medicare which is now 5 and not 3 years.

What's the upshot of all of this?

For one thing, everyone should be looking into Long Term Health Insurance at the appropriate time (late 40's). While some policies do not cover the full cost of care, it can ensure that one is able to get into a decent place if one has nominal assests. The trick is to get into a good place. Doing so at least up's ones chances.

And another: when you are visiting a place, us the smell test. This is what Social Workers are trained to do. And use your eyes. If you see bruises on the arms, hands and neck of a patient, something is wrong. And if you think something is wrong: call Adult Protective Services.

And lastly: being gay and elderly can be isolating. Don't let this happen. It helps tremendously if one has an advocate, and this can only be established if one keeps reaching out.

[BrianB]

"Y'all must live in the midwest, what with your friendly, corn-fed gay nursing stock.

Oh...wait...so do I now.

Hooray!!

But, lemme tell you, it ain't so in my admittedly limited and hugely unscientific sampling of some metropolitan areas on the East Coast, where it would seem the entire nursing profession is staffed by African-Americans or African-Caribbean Islanders (in NYC, at least, largely from Jamaica)."

Yes I live in the Ohio corn belt. The African-American staff at the nursing home were not generally "gay-friendly". Mostly there were white lesbians that lived in the country and a few gay, male nurses in this nursing home. It's been my experience that most of the home care aides coming to my apartment are at least gay-friendly. These are the same people that have second jobs at nursing homes. Perhaps it's just this location that has more gay people working in health care. I don't know.

[Vanessa White]

I am curious to know how the aging process is affecting those of you here. I am in my forties, which I don't feel timid about, nor do I feel "old" in my mind anyway. However, I feel more old as time goes by in my body, in my energy levels. I am starting to notice the shift, like I just realized that I am twenty years older all of a sudden. I still feel energetic and youthful, but find that when I try to do full energy activities it takes greater effort. It is kind of bugging me a bit. Wondered if any others feel the same thing, or similar anyway.

The other part I am noticing, and I am by no means vain, is that I notice the face in the mirror LOOKS older, aging, wrinkled. I don't mind wrinkles, or gray hairs, but I don't recognize my own body, or features of my face at times. It is a strange phenomena to look in the mirror and to not appear to yourself as you once did.

Am I crazy, or can anyone else identify with this??

[tdogg]

Wow Vanessa. I know exactly what you are talking about! I don't really feel any older. I'm actually a young sort of person in spirit (I have a very young soul, so if reincarnation is true, for me I'll be coming back and coming back for a very long time!). But I know what you mean about having energy and being busy, but then notice it takes more effort to get it all done. Sometimes I get a bit tired and wonder what the heck? Then realize, I'm pretty darn close to 50 years old! Not that 50 is old (for all those who are beating me there!) mind you.

And I look in the mirror, although I feel that I look young for my age, sometimes the wrinkles shock the heck out of me! It's that dang magnifying mirror, got to quit using it!

[tdogg]

Getting back to the original point, giving it more thought...This is a major deal that I doubt many people really think of at our age. My partner and I talk about, if we had the money, buying up some acreage and putting together a GLBT community which is self-contained. Where it's one big family and everyone helps everyone. Similar concept as a commune, but GLBT exclusive.

It's definitely something to think about, I certainly feel like Daniel, going back into the closet is not an option for me.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by tdogg

Getting back to the original point, giving it more thought...This is a major deal that I doubt many people really think of at our age. My partner and I talk about, if we had the money, buying up some acreage and putting together a GLBT community which is self-contained. Where it's one big family and everyone helps everyone. Similar concept as a commune, but GLBT exclusive.

Meep!

If it was GLBT exclusive, where would we put my hubby??
'Cuz ya know I would wanna be there.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

I am curious to know how the aging process is affecting those of you here. I am in my forties, which I don't feel timid about, nor do I feel "old" in my mind anyway. However, I feel more old as time goes by in my body, in my energy levels. I am starting to notice the shift, like I just realized that I am twenty years older all of a sudden. I still feel energetic and youthful, but find that when I try to do full energy activities it takes greater effort. It is kind of bugging me a bit. Wondered if any others feel the same thing, or similar anyway.

The other part I am noticing, and I am by no means vain, is that I notice the face in the mirror LOOKS older, aging, wrinkled. I don't mind wrinkles, or gray hairs, but I don't recognize my own body, or features of my face at times. It is a strange phenomena to look in the mirror and to not appear to yourself as you once did.

Am I crazy, or can anyone else identify with this??

I connect with the mirror thing!

I have rarely ever felt that the reflection in the mirror was right. Usually I look in there and feel surprised by what I see - either the coloring, the shape, the expression, something - something always disconnects from what I know I *look like* on the inside. The reflection either looks way too old or way too young or way too This or way too That. That has been true since I was very young. I don't know what I think I *should* look like - but whenever I see my reflection or a photo, I am always surprised.

[ladyinred]

I identify, and I am vain ( I never said I was perfect folks ) do not like the grey hair or facial lines.Luckily I still have my sense of humor, without that I'd be "daid".

[tdogg]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Meep!

If it was GLBT exclusive, where would we put my hubby??
'Cuz ya know I would wanna be there.

Of course you would be there Z. And we would NEVER leave out DH! Especially not after being so fortunate as to meet him in 3D. And you wouldn't want to be there without him! (How is he doing anyways? School year keepin' him busy?)

[tdogg]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

I connect with the mirror thing!

I have rarely ever felt that the reflection in the mirror was right. Usually I look in there and feel surprised by what I see - either the coloring, the shape, the expression, something - something always disconnects from what I know I *look like* on the inside. The reflection either looks way too old or way too young or way too This or way too That. That has been true since I was very young. I don't know what I think I *should* look like - but whenever I see my reflection or a photo, I am always surprised.

That's odd, only because I have a similar feeling about photos. It's more that my photos never look like me in the mirror. I feel unphotogenic, and while I don't mind my pics being taken, I'm rarely happy with the results. My two sisters however are extremely photogenic, more so than in person. I would have never made a model, that and the fact I'm only 5'5".

We are having 'family' photos while in Hawaii, my partners' family and us all together. Not looking too forward to it, they are quite photogenic and then there will be me...