I guess this qualifies as personal activism in my little corner of the world!

[Vanessa White]

So, here is the scenario:

I do some training here and there, on various topics, but the one that I do most frequently is on addressing the needs of LGBTQ adolescents and young adults, or some variation of that theme. Several months ago, before I left my job at my alma mater University, I agreed to offer the topic as a presentation for the fall, at an event called the Intercollegiate Counselor Consortium. Several counselors from local colleges and universities get together a few times a year to brush up on a relevant counseling topic, mainly in the area of college settings. Today was my day to present.

Now, many, probably half of those that regularly participate in the ICC, are colleges and universities with some type of religious affiliation, all some variation of Christianity. So, in preparing for this, I did have a degree of nervousness about what I might encounter, but I didn't consciously feel intimidated by it. I mean, the University for which I worked was a Catholic institution, I attended undergrad there, and my grad degree is from our local Jesuit University.

I arrived at my destination early, was greeted very warmly by the hosting school representatives, had some coffee and got my thoughts together a bit. I mean, I have a very, well scripted presentation when I do this, but I also try to facilitate discussion, and address myths and stereotypes, which I think is a KEY part of development. A couple attendees came and introduced themselves, and one in particular caught my attention, because he is in a rather high position at our local baptist college, and he NEVER attends these things. But, the topic was known prior to today by all members, and I thought he just wanted to hear the info firsthand. He also brought one of his counseling supervisors with him, and I had met her before, and she seemed at least willing to discuss the issues related to LGBTQ identity.

During my presentation, there was much discussion overall about the aspects of the information, including myths, stereotypes, support systems for youths, the need for allies, SOULFORCE, of course!, and what local and national resources I was aware of. At one point, this man asked me to site the source from which I got the info that roughly 1 in 10 persons is estimated to have a gay or lesbian orientation; I could not, except to say that I have read that estimate in MANY publications. At the end, when discussing resources available, and the need for counselors to offer support to these individuals, due to the isolation and stressors related to adjusting, he asked me "Do you have any resources for those that want to get over the lifestyle?". To which I replied, "No, I do not have any resources for that." Then, I paused. Now, I had spoken to the group openly about the challenge that I give myself almost daily, to address oppression and negative attitudes more often. There were close to 30 people watching me, and then I said, "Actually, I wouldn't have those resources anyway, because I do not ascribe to that way of thinking." And, then I felt like I was gonna hurl. But, I felt such power and inner strength at confronting it in a peaceful way, but confronting it nonetheless.

You see, I feel pretty naive at times. That the religious world can be as outright derogatory and damaging as many of my Soulforce family members have experienced. I have not had to confront this type of negativity on any regular basis. I think that I believed earlier in my life that I would not be able to do it, out of assumed respect for the other person. Now, I know it is about respect for myself, and those whom I love and care about. I realized in that moment, and in the hours that have gone by since that moment, that being here, with all of you, has literally empowered me to CHANGE MY LIFE. I feel strong, I feel capable, and I am ready, I think, for just about anything.

I just wanted to share. It was powerful and amazing, and I sweat through it all so much I left damp!!! But I conquered a demon within myself, I stood strong, and I feel WHOLE.

I love all of you........

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

So, here is the scenario:

I do some training here and there, on various topics, but the one that I do most frequently is on addressing the needs of LGBTQ adolescents and young adults, or some variation of that theme. Several months ago, before I left my job at my alma mater University, I agreed to offer the topic as a presentation for the fall, at an event called the Intercollegiate Counselor Consortium. Several counselors from local colleges and universities get together a few times a year to brush up on a relevant counseling topic, mainly in the area of college settings. Today was my day to present.

Now, many, probably half of those that regularly participate in the ICC, are colleges and universities with some type of religious affiliation, all some variation of Christianity. So, in preparing for this, I did have a degree of nervousness about what I might encounter, but I didn't consciously feel intimidated by it. I mean, the University for which I worked was a Catholic institution, I attended undergrad there, and my grad degree is from our local Jesuit University.

I arrived at my destination early, was greeted very warmly by the hosting school representatives, had some coffee and got my thoughts together a bit. I mean, I have a very, well scripted presentation when I do this, but I also try to facilitate discussion, and address myths and stereotypes, which I think is a KEY part of development. A couple attendees came and introduced themselves, and one in particular caught my attention, because he is in a rather high position at our local baptist college, and he NEVER attends these things. But, the topic was known prior to today by all members, and I thought he just wanted to hear the info firsthand. He also brought one of his counseling supervisors with him, and I had met her before, and she seemed at least willing to discuss the issues related to LGBTQ identity.

During my presentation, there was much discussion overall about the aspects of the information, including myths, stereotypes, support systems for youths, the need for allies, SOULFORCE, of course!, and what local and national resources I was aware of. At one point, this man asked me to site the source from which I got the info that roughly 1 in 10 persons is estimated to have a gay or lesbian orientation; I could not, except to say that I have read that estimate in MANY publications. At the end, when discussing resources available, and the need for counselors to offer support to these individuals, due to the isolation and stressors related to adjusting, he asked me "Do you have any resources for those that want to get over the lifestyle?". To which I replied, "No, I do not have any resources for that." Then, I paused. Now, I had spoken to the group openly about the challenge that I give myself almost daily, to address oppression and negative attitudes more often. There were close to 30 people watching me, and then I said, "Actually, I wouldn't have those resources anyway, because I do not ascribe to that way of thinking." And, then I felt like I was gonna hurl. But, I felt such power and inner strength at confronting it in a peaceful way, but confronting it nonetheless.

You see, I feel pretty naive at times. That the religious world can be as outright derogatory and damaging as many of my Soulforce family members have experienced. I have not had to confront this type of negativity on any regular basis. I think that I believed earlier in my life that I would not be able to do it, out of assumed respect for the other person. Now, I know it is about respect for myself, and those whom I love and care about. I realized in that moment, and in the hours that have gone by since that moment, that being here, with all of you, has literally empowered me to CHANGE MY LIFE. I feel strong, I feel capable, and I am ready, I think, for just about anything.

I just wanted to share. It was powerful and amazing, and I sweat through it all so much I left damp!!! But I conquered a demon within myself, I stood strong, and I feel WHOLE.

I love all of you........

Woohoo! You go Vanessa! Next time you can tell him what an abusive crock it all is! Everytime we open our mouths to tell the truth... it gets easier. (until they kill us )

[BrentRichards]

In my book, that qualifies as activism in anybody's little corner of the world! The real changes happen one conversation at a time! You get a "Waytuhgo!" from me, anyway.

[keltic63]

I'm so proud of you Vanessa!


and I'll bet you've thought of a lot more things that you could have said in the hours that have passed. You'll be even more prepared for the next time!

[Zerbie]

WOW!! That can easily be a scary moment. All on your own, too. You were GREAT!

(((Vanessa)))

I frequently feel a desire to back down in 3D conversations - raised in a homophobic culture, it feels scary to be so direct face to face. But we do it, and lo, the sky does not fall.

[andrewlittle]

My hat goes off to you, Vanessa. Well done, indeed.

[Vanessa White]

Thanks friends. I do believe that I will be constantly preparing for the next encounter, and even less fear being present. Your support means the world.....

[dsdrane]

Mazel tov, Schatz!!

My almost constant prayer is that I have the cojones to do likewise whenever moments like that arise.

You're my hero.

[BenL]

Wow, Vanessa, that was PERFECT!!

I want to state the obvious, just in case you or anyone else is having second thoughts about what you might have said. That was the perfect response for the setting. It was professional. It was non-confrontational. It didn't put anyone down, but it didn't compromise your belief system or you personhood. It expressed professional support for GLBT students. I wish I could learn to "think on my feet" like that and not overstate things and thus spoil the impact. I am so impressed and proud to be a fellow Soulforcer.

[Vanessa White]

It is interesting that you did "state the obvious" about how I interacted with this person. Because, yesterday and today, as Keltic told me would happen, I have thought about it pretty constantly and how it transpired, if I could have said anything additional. I know that even though I thought of things this morning that I could have said additionally, specifically how damaging the ex-gay movement is to our friends, but, I think it would have dampened the professionalism of the situation. I did think about sending a followup email to this person, just to speak some more of my thoughts in a respectful manner. I mean, after all, he helps to educate future counselors who are likely going to have these struggling individuals in their offices.

What do you think about that idea? I am not sure myself.....

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

It is interesting that you did "state the obvious" about how I interacted with this person. Because, yesterday and today, as Keltic told me would happen, I have thought about it pretty constantly and how it transpired, if I could have said anything additional. I know that even though I thought of things this morning that I could have said additionally, specifically how damaging the ex-gay movement is to our friends, but, I think it would have dampened the professionalism of the situation. I did think about sending a followup email to this person, just to speak some more of my thoughts in a respectful manner. I mean, after all, he helps to educate future counselors who are likely going to have these struggling individuals in their offices.

What do you think about that idea? I am not sure myself.....

Your answers were, as others have said, VERY good and very professional.

His questions, however, were neither.

His bias came through loud and clear, and I would imagine he hoped to derail you or your train of thought with them. He was, at the very least, being an antagonist. I am not sure that a follow-up with this man is in your best interests. Possibly an article or general email to participants dealing with the subject of his questions, without specifically targeting him (wink, wink), might be an appropriate response.

[Vanessa White]

I thought about that also, a general email to all participants in regard to the questions. Thanks for the input.

[u-dog]

Ok.. so today was MY turn!!

I was at the gym exercising on the recumbant bike and reading the book "UnChristian" this morning. I was reading chapter five which says "ANTI-HOMOSEXUAL" at the top of every page and my trainer came by. "C" is an older guy -- sort of a cross between Chuck Norris and Santa. Great guy but VERY republican and conservative on most issues. He points his finger at the word "homosexual" in my book and says:

"So, where do you come down on that issue?"

Vanessa's sterling example popped imediately to my mind and I took a deep breath and said in a loud voice with unyeilding eyecontact:

"Well C____, I am a staunch advocate of the rights and dignity of GLBT people , both in the church and in society!"

To which he said in his gruff aging jock voice:

"Good! me too!"


Go figure. But here he was, not sure how I would think about the issue since he knows that I am a Christian and a pastor. and there I was not sure how he would feel being a conservative, NRA member, aging jock. Because he asked and because I answered... we were both strengthened in our resolve.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Go figure. But here he was, not sure how I would think about the issue since he knows that I am a Christian and a pastor. and there I was not sure how he would feel being a conservative, NRA member, aging jock. Because he asked and because I answered... we were both strengthened in our resolve.

Interesting. I often think that our own internalized homophobia causes us to assume that everyone we encounter will need to be "educated" on this issue. Even those that have examined the issue, like this aging jock, are unsure of what others will think. How refreshing for both of you, u-dog, that you could speak bravely and openly and find that you are in agreement!

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Ok.. so today was MY turn!!

I was at the gym exercising on the recumbant bike and reading the book "UnChristian" this morning. I was reading chapter five which says "ANTI-HOMOSEXUAL" at the top of every page and my trainer came by. "C" is an older guy -- sort of a cross between Chuck Norris and Santa. Great guy but VERY republican and conservative on most issues. He points his finger at the word "homosexual" in my book and says:

"So, where do you come down on that issue?"

Vanessa's sterling example popped imediately to my mind and I took a deep breath and said in a loud voice with unyeilding eyecontact:

"Well C____, I am a staunch advocate of the rights and dignity of GLBT people , both in the church and in society!"

To which he said in his gruff aging jock voice:

"Good! me too!"

That's terrific!!

I bet there are a lot more supporters out there than anyone believes. I'm so glad ya'll are finding each other. It's like when my Mormon friend surprised me two years ago or so by calling me up and asking me to go see Transamerica with her, "Zerbie, you're the only person I could think of who I know who would be open enough to see this movie with me." And how surprised I was, because I expected the Mormon anti-gay training to have seeped in. As it turned out, this wonderful lady was one of our staunchest supporters at 7SN Phoenix, even bought the tee shirt, and couldn't wait to grab a sign and hold it up for the camera (she's the beautiful lady in the photo on that web article.)

Originally Posted by keltic63

Interesting. I often think that our own internalized homophobia causes us to assume that everyone we encounter will need to be "educated" on this issue. Even those that have examined the issue, like this aging jock, are unsure of what others will think. How refreshing for both of you, u-dog, that you could speak bravely and openly and find that you are in agreement!

Totally!!! I'm not sure how much is internalized homophobia versus how much is learned expectations. We just expect the world to continue being virulently homophobic if that's the way it was when we grew up, because that's just "the world." Only, maybe it isn't.

[Vanessa White]

WAY TO GO UDOG!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel proud to call you my friend. A day that made a difference to both you and your friend at the gym. There are so many dynamics that prevent two people, or groups of people, from coming together and talking about this issue. Internalized homophobia is definitely a big culprit in all this, mainly because it perpetuates the fears that keep many of us stuck and unable to act.

Yesterday, to me, was just one more solid step in my journey toward self-actualization. To feel so proud and peaceful about being, not only who I am as an individual, but who we are as a collective, vibrant, and colorful community.

[Daniel]

Your story makes me smile ear to ear. Empowerment is such a wonderful thing, especially when it rises up within one- nearly catching one unaware. There is that moment of decision, and then the truth let's fly. Priceless.

[Sherrie Z]

Congratulations to Vanessa and to UDog! Hooray!

Great big cheers to both of you!!! : )

[kara speltz]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

So, here is the scenario:

I do some training here and there, on various topics, but the one that I do most frequently is on addressing the needs of LGBTQ adolescents and young adults, or some variation of that theme. Several months ago, before I left my job at my alma mater University, I agreed to offer the topic as a presentation for the fall, at an event called the Intercollegiate Counselor Consortium. Several counselors from local colleges and universities get together a few times a year to brush up on a relevant counseling topic, mainly in the area of college settings. Today was my day to present.

During my presentation, there was much discussion overall about the aspects of the information, including myths, stereotypes, support systems for youths, the need for allies, SOULFORCE, of course!, and what local and national resources I was aware of. At one point, this man asked me to site the source from which I got the info that roughly 1 in 10 persons is estimated to have a gay or lesbian orientation; I could not, except to say that I have read that estimate in MANY publications. At the end, when discussing resources available, and the need for counselors to offer support to these individuals, due to the isolation and stressors related to adjusting, he asked me

"Do you have any resources for those that want to get over the lifestyle?". To which I replied, "No, I do not have any resources for that." Then, I paused. Now, I had spoken to the group openly about the challenge that I give myself almost daily, to address oppression and negative attitudes more often. There were close to 30 people watching me, and then I said, "Actually, I wouldn't have those resources anyway, because I do not ascribe to that way of thinking." And, then I felt like I was gonna hurl. But, I felt such power and inner strength at confronting it in a peaceful way, but confronting it nonetheless.

You see, I feel pretty naive at times. That the religious world can be as outright derogatory and damaging as many of my Soulforce family members have experienced. I have not had to confront this type of negativity on any regular basis. I think that I believed earlier in my life that I would not be able to do it, out of assumed respect for the other person. Now, I know it is about respect for myself, and those whom I love and care about. I realized in that moment, and in the hours that have gone by since that moment, that being here, with all of you, has literally empowered me to CHANGE MY LIFE. I feel strong, I feel capable, and I am ready, I think, for just about anything.

I just wanted to share. It was powerful and amazing, and I sweat through it all so much I left damp!!! But I conquered a demon within myself, I stood strong, and I feel WHOLE.
I love all of you........

Venessa, thanks so much for sharing that experience with all of us. Time and time again, it seems to me, the way we generate courage and empowerment is simply in small steps, that give us the courage to take the next step. Your story was absolutely amazing, and it took a lot of courage as well as grace to respond as you did.

The grace of this forum is that it helps us all to grow. Kara

[tdogg]

So awesome!!!

I'm really proud of you, that is difficult to do. I don't always say or do the right thing either, it's a learning curve for sure! But you did it, stood up and faced the man and said what you had to say.

And to my fellow dog U, way to go! I think that perhaps most people we would encounter in a normal day would be on our side. It's those in positions of power, leadership and control who spew the most crap. The others are meek enough to listen and follow, even if they don't believe. We need more one-on-one with the general population like that.