Calling all mental health professionals

[andrewlittle]

I am curious!

Okay - after you get done playing with that statement - I want to know something.

I read all manner of pseudoscience about what is psychologically or pthologically wrong with GLBT folk. I read all manner of research about why the pseudoscience sucks big ones.

But where are the studies about the root causes and (possible) links to early childhood trauma, abuse or other critical events that lead up to homophobia? I have no doubt whatsoever - which is why I couldn't participate - that homophobia, or even bias against LGBT, is a mental or emotional disorder. Where are the studies (if they exist) into the causes of this most diabolical dysfunction?

If there aren't any, shouldn't there be?

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Yes! is there a measurable correlation between Homophobia and being molested by one's otherwise heterosexual little league coach? You gotta wonder where that level of hate and anger comes from!!

And the Larry Craigs of the world. Heterosexuals - homophobic heterosexuals, at that - who feel a compulsive need to dilly dally in high risk sexual encounters with the same sex. This guy, and others like him, are not gay - there is some kind of deeply rooted mental problem at work that gives them a prurient interest in things they otherwise find "disgusting". Then they spend their time saying, "I am not gay." No shit - you're not gay - you're sick as hell, but most certainly not gay.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Yes! is there a measurable correlation between Homophobia and being molested by one's otherwise heterosexual little league coach?You gotta wonder where that level of hate and anger comes from!!

I've been wondering about this lately too. There's a guy on Teach the facts.org that is responsible for the majority of the anti-gay remarks and other nonsense. The school system is implementing a new sex-ed curriculum which objectively acknowledges homosexuality as an orientation without condemning it - and the anti-gay groups are having the time of their lives spreading hate about it.

This is the latest, and a TYPICAL quote from the guy in question:

Adolescence is a confusing time for kids. Many go through stages. If they go to classes implying that homosexuality is innate, the danger is they may become solidified in this type of lifestyle.

He says stuff like that so much that it's beyond just parroting the anti-gay talking points. I've come to the conclusion that he must have been either molested himself, or actually was confused, and then was told he should accept being gay, and then it turned out that he wasn't. So now he blames this on all gays.

Come to think of it, I actually Googled to try and find studies for a correlation between how victims of abuse grow up to think of the demographic of their abuser, be it race, religion, orientation or whatever, Not much luck though. There's got to be studies like that though.

[Progo35]

I think that true homophobia relates to the human tendency to recoil at anything foriegn that appears to threaten the threshhold of appropriateness developed from their experiences, which has been written about by Freud and others.


Interesting thoughts...

[Dumbledore]

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

I am curious!

Okay - after you get done playing with that statement - I want to know something.

I read all manner of pseudoscience about what is psychologically or pthologically wrong with GLBT folk. I read all manner of research about why the pseudoscience sucks big ones.

But where are the studies about the root causes and (possible) links to early childhood trauma, abuse or other critical events that lead up to homophobia? I have no doubt whatsoever - which is why I couldn't participate - that homophobia, or even bias against LGBT, is a mental or emotional disorder. Where are the studies (if they exist) into the causes of this most diabolical dysfunction?

If there aren't any, shouldn't there be?

Homosexuality was removed from the DSM-III-R as a pathology. I've been contemplating what you said...to perhaps add the litany of irrational prejudices to the DSM-III-R as pathological conditions.

I can almost hear James Dobson squealing under the knife. "They're assaulting our Christian liberty to hate the gays. It's in the Bible. It is God's holy will..." Blah blah blah.

But you're right...long term studies need to conducted on the root causes of homophobia. I'd like to suggest some test subjects: James Dobson, Fred Phelps, ... can't think of any others ... they all died or got outed.

[Alecto]

Does the preocupation with homosexuality fall under another already-existing diagnosis, perhaps? It sometimes seems a bit obsessive (literally, medically speaking) to me (see the Phelps clan). And sometimes the ranting could probably fall under paranoid schizophrenia (again...Phelps clan :-/). That said, I would be really interested to see some connections made, or even just read some case studies etc.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Didn't someone quote a study not long ago where they measured the physiological responses of men to various kinds of porn and then measured their degree of homophobia with a questionaire and found that the worst homophobes had a higher degree of response to gay porn? I have this vague foggy memory...

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/arti...lbtphobia.html 3/18/99

Researchers at the University of Georgia conducted an experiment involving 35 homophobic men and 29 non-homophobic men as measured by the Index of Homophobia scale. All the participants selected for the study described themselves as exclusively heterosexual both in terms of sexual arousal and experience.

Each participant was exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual and lesbian videotapes (but not necessarily in that order). Their degree of sexual arousal was measured by penile plethysmography, which precisely measures and records male tumescence.

Men in both groups were aroused by about the same degree by the video depicting heterosexual sexual behavior and by the video showing two women engaged in sexual behavior. The only significant difference in degree of arousal between the two groups occurred when they viewed the video depicting male homosexual sex: "The homophobic men showed a significant increase in penile circumference to the male homosexual video, but the control [non-homophobic] men did not."

Not that that's conclusive, but even if it were, I still want to know why the non-homosexual homophobes are so passionately anti-gay.

[inca nitta]

I know about so many different phobias too many to count, like arachnophobia (fear of spiders), claustrophobia (fear of tall buildings), even Judophobia (fear of Jews and Judaism, believing like Jews will take over the world and will start using Gentile boys for their rituals). Surely, that was the mental disorder Hitler and his cronies were suffering from. So, no wonder that homophobia, a fear and hatred of homosexuality and homosexuals, is also a mental disorder.

Thus, knowing that homophobia is an example of all other phobias there are to it, i was wondering that there could be also heterophobia and Christianophobia? Fear and hatred of heterosexuality, like assuming that heterosexuals have an agenda to make everybody straight, and Christianophobia, a fear and hatred of Christianity and Christian people. For example, assuming that Christians want to take over the world, replace constitutions with the Bible, exterminate non-Christians, etc? Could it be possible, that the reason people suffering from this mental disorder has to do with having negative experience with a Christian religion?

[Alecto]

An important part of making something a "phobia" is that it is an irrational fear (and or hatred depending on specifics and definitions). There do exist groups of fundamentalist christians who are very literally and very openly pushing to take over the country (ok, so, not quite the world) and effectively replace the constitution with the bible.
And I don't think I need to tell you about the groups of heterosexuals that are trying to make everyone straight: those are even easier to find. Yes, there's a difference between recognizing that these people exist, and assuming that all memebers of the whatever affinity group are acting the same way, but I don't think it's irrational to, when interacting with someone at first, deliberately neglect to assume anything about them. Meaning that, on a personal level, I'd really love to be able to assume that christians are good people, and that heterosexuals know how to respect gay people, but I can't make those assumptions anymore.

[ladyinred]

Inca nitta......There are Christians trying to take over the world for Christ they are called domionists and it is well documented, also conversion therapy being pushed on homosexuals to change,well documented, The RR trying to enact legislation that would undermine the rights of LGBT ,well documented, numerous religious right groups are vehemently anti gay , well documented. Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins, Narth, Paul Cameron,Dobson, AFA,FRC,Traditional values Coalition ,ALCJ,Exodus international ,even the Coors foundation is involved(Funding wise),among others So I don't think it is a figment of our imagination.
As you can see there are many people here who consider themselves Christians, while there may be a gay activists who are extremist and hate Christianity,it seems to me you are trying to say gays are overreacting to all this and that they can't be Christians.RE:Your statements:"thus, knowing that homophobia is an example of all other phobias there are to it, i was wondering that there could be also heterophobia and Christianophobia? Fear and hatred of heterosexuality, like assuming that heterosexuals have an agenda to make everybody straight, and Christianophobia, a fear and hatred of Christianity and Christian people?"

It is also well documented that people like Pat Robertson among others do not support separation of church and state, want biblical law enforced above the constitution, so excuse me? And it is not by anyone's imagination that Paul Cameron made a statement about the possibility of exterminating gays.Gays have been blamed for familial break ups, divorces, 9/11, the recent California fires(Among many other things by the RR. So let me ask you who is being delusional here? Are you trying to label gay people in general as mentally ill then? .

]I may be wrong but are you making accusations here about gay people in general and trying to hijack this thread? Then I would ask the moderators to remove you from this forum because you are making inflamatory statements about GLBT people and calling them mentally ill for "imagining these things."
Moderators? RE: Statements made by Inca Nitta:"thus, knowing that homophobia is an example of all other phobias there are to it, i was wondering that there could be also heterophobia and Christianophobia? Fear and hatred of heterosexuality, like assuming that heterosexuals have an agenda to make everybody straight, and Christianophobia, a fear and hatred of Christianity and Christian people? Could it be possible, that the reason people suffering from this mental disorder has to do with having negative experience with a Christian religion? " Are you assuming that GLBT people can't be Christian and hate Christians and that only heterosexuals are capable of being true Christians?,If I made the wrong assumption, please explain yourself then.

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by inca nitta

I know about so many different phobias too many to count, like arachnophobia (fear of spiders), claustrophobia (fear of enclosed places), even Judophobia (fear of Jews and Judaism, believing like Jews will take over the world and will start using Gentile boys for their rituals- interesting - where the hell did this come from). Surely, that was the mental disorder Hitler and his cronies were suffering from. So, no wonder that homophobia, a fear and hatred of homosexuality and homosexuals, is also a mental disorder.

Thus, knowing that homophobia is an example of all other phobias there are to it, i was wondering that there could be also heterophobia and Christianophobia? Fear and hatred of heterosexuality, like assuming that heterosexuals have an agenda to make everybody straight, and Christianophobia, a fear and hatred of Christianity and Christian people. For example, assuming that Christians want to take over the world, replace constitutions with the Bible, exterminate non-Christians, etc? Could it be possible, that the reason people suffering from this mental disorder has to do with having negative experience with a Christian religion?

The key, as has been stated, is the IRRATIONAL fear.

Irrational fear of GLBT = thinking that being gay is contagious; thinking that gays are out to molest and convert our youngsters (irrational because the overwhelming majority of child predators are heterosexual and indisciminate as far as the gender of the victim is concerned); thinking that recognizing same-sex marriage would undermine or destroy heterosexual marriage (irrational since heterosexuals are doing a perfectly fine job of that themselves with a 50% divorce rate and 75% rate if infidelity); and oh so many more. Hence, homophobia.

The fear of Christian movements to turn GLBT straight - let's see - Exodus, Love Won Out and many other religious based reparative therapy movements; NARTH and their "gender-affirmative" therapies; the barrage of misinformation from Focus On The Family, Family Research Council and American Family Association. Irrational - I think not. Fears that certain Christian groups with enormous influence socially and politically want to make this a "Christian" nation, read the constitution through the lens of a mistranslated Bible, pass laws legislating adherence to Christian dogma - irrational, my ass.

Muddying a legitimate question with this kind of bullshit - cheap.
Obfuscating valid arguments by redirecting conversation to ridiculous extremes - even cheaper.
Trying to legitimize homophobia by casting rational fears as irrational - f--king pricelessly arrogant or ignorant.

I vote for inviting Inca Nitta into the privacy of the foyer - for a limited time till we see just how vitreolic and absurd his arguments get.

[inca nitta]

Originally Posted by ladyinred

Inca nitta......There are Christians trying to take over the world for Christ they are called domionists and it is well documented, also conversion therapy being pushed on homosexuals to change,well documented, The RR trying to enact legislation that would undermine the rights of LGBT ,well documented, numerous religious right groups are vehemently anti gay , well documented. Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins, Narth, Paul Cameron,Dobson, AFA,FRC,Traditional values Coalition ,ALCJ,Exodus international ,even the Coors foundation is involved(Funding wise),among others So I don't think it is a figment of our imagination.
As you can see there are many people here who consider themselves Christians, while there may be a gay activists who are extremist and hate Christianity,it seems to me you are trying to say gays are overreacting to all this and that they can't be Christians.RE:Your statements:"thus, knowing that homophobia is an example of all other phobias there are to it, i was wondering that there could be also heterophobia and Christianophobia? Fear and hatred of heterosexuality, like assuming that heterosexuals have an agenda to make everybody straight, and Christianophobia, a fear and hatred of Christianity and Christian people?"

It is also well documented that people like Pat Robertson among others do not support separation of church and state, want biblical law enforced above the constitution, so excuse me? And it is not by anyone's imagination that Paul Cameron made a statement about the possibility of exterminating gays.Gays have been blamed for familial break ups, divorces, 9/11, the recent California fires(Among many other things by the RR. So let me ask you who is being delusional here? Are you trying to label gay people in general as mentally ill then? .

]I may be wrong but are you making accusations here about gay people in general and trying to hijack this thread? Then I would ask the moderators to remove you from this forum because you are making inflamatory statements about GLBT people and calling them mentally ill for "imagining these things."
Moderators? RE: Statements made by Inca Nitta:"thus, knowing that homophobia is an example of all other phobias there are to it, i was wondering that there could be also heterophobia and Christianophobia? Fear and hatred of heterosexuality, like assuming that heterosexuals have an agenda to make everybody straight, and Christianophobia, a fear and hatred of Christianity and Christian people? Could it be possible, that the reason people suffering from this mental disorder has to do with having negative experience with a Christian religion? " Are you assuming that GLBT people can't be Christian and hate Christians and that only heterosexuals are capable of being true Christians?,If I made the wrong assumption, please explain yourself then.

I have not said anything about GLBT people, but I simply wanted to focus on the subject of phobia. As far as I can see, there could be various phobias. I was not saying things you are accusing me of. While I can understand that some Christians want to create a theocracy, definitely not all. So, if anybody is assuming that all Christians are like that, that person is being irrational.

As far as gay christians, I know there are many gay affirming churches in our country, and I fully support their right to practice what they believe. You know, we got freedom of religion, here.

If you want to focus specifically on the subject of homophobia and nothing else, then I guess, I won't be making asking any further questions in this thread.

I have to go to work, now, running late.

But I will get back to you later.

See ya,

Inca

[NathanATX]

We're watching.

the mods

[ladyinred]

Inca, nobody is saying all Christians are like that. Only a certain portion of the population believe as the right does, but their influence is powerful and they are trying to shape legislation to mold their ideology.and are trying to impose that on other Christians as well.When Pat Robertson said :‘You’re supposed to be nice to Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Methodists … Nonsense. I don’t have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist.’' How does he view other Christians then? I'm not providing references here google Pat Robertson and this quote and you'll find it ,it was even published in Japan today.

[Alecto]

I, for one, am a little confused about why you're surprised that a forum site focusing on GLBT rights just might want to focus on homophobia.
Furthermore, it's insulting (whether or not you realize it) to come in and say "oh, you don't have it that bad. people do all the same things to Christians, and to heterosexuals!". No. They don't. And certainly not in the same numbers. When was the last time someone was beaten within inches of their lives for being Christian in America? When was the last time you had to ask yourself "Am I safe" just going out to eat? (http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/11/110507jersey.htm). Whether you realize it or not, it is offensive to come here and minimize our oppression by equating it to some imagined plight of the majority.

[inca nitta]

Originally Posted by Alecto

I, for one, am a little confused about why you're surprised that a forum site focusing on GLBT rights just might want to focus on homophobia.
Furthermore, it's insulting (whether or not you realize it) to come in and say "oh, you don't have it that bad. people do all the same things to Christians, and to heterosexuals!". No. They don't. And certainly not in the same numbers. When was the last time someone was beaten within inches of their lives for being Christian in America? When was the last time you had to ask yourself "Am I safe" just going out to eat? (http://www.365gay.com/Newscon07/11/110507jersey.htm). Whether you realize it or not, it is offensive to come here and minimize our oppression by equating it to some imagined plight of the majority.

Mary Stachowicz

[inca nitta]

...and I don't like what Pat Robertson does anymore than you do.

[inca nitta]

Also,

I thought that in this thread we could talk about all kinds of phobias and prejudices, including homophobia. I didn't realize that homophobia being a mental disorder was exclusive.

Sorry for misunderstanding.

[ladyinred]

Inca,
i don't even think that Heterosexuality is an issue with gay people for most part. GLBT people after all came from heterosexual parents, nor are most against traditional marriage or families, ,nor are they trying to undermine traditional male/ female families. But what they are saying is because of the antigay agenda of certain religious organizations, they are being ostracized and dehumanized for their orientation. Being bullied from pulpits and browbeaten with the bible. You are an abomination of God, you are going to hell, you are wicked and evil and wretched and deserve the treatment you get. Now if someone talked to you in this way, how would you react? Ever have premarital sex? Divorced? Have you read scriptures on these by the way?
Now here is a definition of heterophobia I found:. Heterophobia

Stemming from a fear of emotional and/or physical safety, Heterophobia is the sometimes irrational fear of straight people by some gay people brought about by many years of oppression, verbal and physical abuse from the majority onto the minority.

"Jon's heterophobia manifested itself as fear for his physical safety when he would go to places he knew to be predominantly full of straight people he wouldn't know."

Now suppose someone broke into your home and put a gun to your head? Would you not then fear for your safety. Would you not feel violated? Of course the definition above seems to link the " phobia" with traumatic events of the past.(And perhaps ongoing ones in the present as with many gay.lesbian, transgender,bi youths, but this by no means limited to youth.)
Verbal, physical abuse and oppression on an ongoing basis could be called phobia?Note other people often respond the same way to traumatic events. Child abuse victims, rape victims, spousal abuse victims, even victims of genocide in other countries....... As far as "irrational fear" I don't even know if that is even a proper definition. Fear yes, but is that uncommon when people have been traumatized by certain events ?
But another thing to look at is,that there may be gays who have experienced rejection in their own experience of the church and it may be the very reason why there are those who reject Christianity and the church altogether.

[ladyinred]

Now is there legitimate concern on the part of the LGBT community as far as violence being directed at them, is this imagined or irrational? Or are they just being paranoid and reacting to islolated events? Let's take a look...http://www.coavp.org/content/view/35/2/

http://www.aglbical.org/2RESEARCH.htm, other statistics:http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=6&gl=us,

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.p...GUS20050922002,
statistics on hate crimes I wish I had more accurate data about the statistics on hate crimes, but that was several years back. however here is an article:http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0603/p03s01-ussc.html

Hey guys here's an idea, (From the article in CS monitor.)......"And when a virulent gay-basher came to speak in San Francisco, those protesting his hateful rhetoric organized an AIDS charity fundraiser in which people pledged to donate so much for every minute he spoke. When the speaker found out he was inadvertently supporting those he opposed, he left."




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