ENDA passes the house......

[keltic63]

ENDA passes the House of Representatives but without the provision protecting the "T" of LGBT. Have we thrown the Trans' under the bus, or is this a step in the right direction and we can bring them along later?

[Dumbledore]

I don't know how I feel about ENDA passing in the House. We made a step, but I'm heart broken that transgendered people were not included.

I'm also not sure what to think about the HRC flip-flopping all over the map on ENDA. First we're supporting T, now we're supporting the compromise.

Is there a place for incremental progress in civil rights advances or should you just do the right thing every time?

I tend to favor the latter because that is what justice demands.

[ladyinred]

Transgenders are like anyone else,they should be included. I've always wondered what the fuss about their orientation, why would it bother people?

[Dumbledore]

Originally Posted by ladyinred

Transgenders are like anyone else,they should be included. I've always wondered what the fuss about their orientation, why would it bother people?

Gender is THE core issue in the liberation of LGBT people. I think it is more fundamental than sexual orientation. Nothing gets many heterosexual males more uncomfortable than a threat or perceived threat to their "masculine identity". The devaluation of the feminine is the core issue here. Men don't want to be perceived as feminine. Any male that is perceived to be feminine, wants to be a woman or is a woman is punished under the "boy code". Gay men are bashed not because they are gay but because they violate the "boy code".

Leaving gender identity in the dust is a big misjudgement.

[Zerbie]

Keltic posted about this earlier today already in national/world news, but since this is an LGBT issue and Lady already responded, I guess we're having the conversation over here.

The issue has been miscast as incrementalism which it really is not, because while I think there are times when incrementalism may really be the only way to get *any*thing, this isn't really an issue of incrementalism so much as an issue of exclusion. We aren't talking about 100% job protection versus 50% job protection (if such a thing could be divided up into parts,) we are talking about protecting either 100% of the community or only protecting, say 50% or fewer of our community. This is not about incremental progress for the community, this is about progress for only some members of it.

I'm grudgingly glad that a version of an ENDA passed one of the two houses of congress. I'm not glad that it excludes so many in the community. But realistically, Bush is going to veto it anyway, so not only does it exclude many in our community, it is not going to become law, and there's nothing to celebrate about. I am more dismayed than glad. A symbolic victory is really only a victory if it recognizes the entire community.

[Dumbledore]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Keltic posted about this earlier today already in national/world news, but since this is an LGBT issue and Lady already responded, I guess we're having the conversation over here.

The issue has been miscast as incrementalism which it really is not, because while I think there are times when incrementalism may really be the only way to get *any*thing, this isn't really an issue of incrementalism so much as an issue of exclusion. We aren't talking about 100% job protection versus 50% job protection (if such a thing could be divided up into parts,) we are talking about protecting either 100% of the community or only protecting, say 50% or fewer of our community. This is not about incremental progress for the community, this is about progress for only some members of it.

I'm grudgingly glad that a version of an ENDA passed one of the two houses of congress. I'm not glad that it excludes so many in the community. But realistically, Bush is going to veto it anyway, so not only does it exclude many in our community, it is not going to become law, and there's nothing to celebrate about. I am more dismayed than glad. A symbolic victory is really only a victory if it recognizes the entire community.

Sorry Keltic...bad Dumbie...I looked around for ENDA but could not find it. I like your perspective Zerbie. It is an issue of exclusion. It is just wrong.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by Dumbledore

Sorry Keltic...bad Dumbie...I looked around for ENDA but could not find it. I like your perspective Zerbie. It is an issue of exclusion. It is just wrong.

LOL, I thought this was my thread! Maybe I'll use my magical moderator powers and merge them both.

[Dumbledore]

Originally Posted by keltic63

LOL, I thought this was my thread! Maybe I'll use my magical moderator powers and merge them both.

Your magical powers astonish me

[dsdrane]

Anyone know the prospects in the Senate?

Regardless, even with a wonderful symbolic victory of passing both houses (were it to happen), the margins will not be veto-proof, which means this bill will never become law until we have a new resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Anyone know the prospects in the Senate?

Regardless, even with a wonderful symbolic victory of passing both houses (were it to happen), the margins will not be veto-proof, which means this bill will never become law until we have a new resident at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

the law is expected to fail in the Senate. If it would somehow pass, W is expected to veto it.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by keltic63

If it would somehow pass, W is expected to veto it.

...some of his best friends are gay!

Oh, wait, that's Giuliani....

[ladyinred]

I really don't care how some heterosexual male thinks ,let him deal with his own "male insecurities".It has nothing to do with law and passing legislation that protects people . If we make laws based on ,"Well heterosexual men are threatened by their "feminine side" Sorry doesn't seem to hold up as logic for discriminating against someone.

Do they vote with their penises by the way?

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by ladyinred

Do they vote with their penises by the way?

how would this work, exactly?

"All in favor please signify by raising your...."

[ladyinred]

You have some imagination, figure it out.