Conflict

[pnggrad79]

I know I will get a new perspective on this because right now I need one. The situation is this- My wife's family accepts us to a point. To her mom and dad, it is technically ok and they let us come to family gatherings, etc, but whatever you do don't embarrass them by declaring our relationship to anyone else they might know-for instance, extended family and friends. So when we are together at family functions where extended family and friends are present, I am introduced as "the family friend". My wife just stands there beside me and says nothing to indicate any different. For that moment in time, I am what her mother says I am-the family friend.

It crawls all over me. My wife and I have been round and round about this. My contention is that I can't control what her parents call me or think of me. I just would like for my wife to say just once,"Mom, she is not the family friend, she is my wife." If I were a man, this wouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't be something she and her mother would have to hide. But since I am not, and we are lesbians, her mother accepts us privately but not publicly. My wife thinks I should be happy with marginal acceptance versus nothing at all, like it is with my parents. We don't even have a relationship. They said I was welcome but not my wife. To me that is not fair. My sisters and their husbands are invited, and I feel like I should be able to come with my wife.

This has been going on for years now. I feel backed into a corner where I have to accept being "the family friend" and shut up about it, or me and my wife just go to our respective families for the holidays. I don't want to do that. We belong together and our families should accept us without any reservation.

She says that my standing on principle is not reality and I can fight this fight alone. She doesn't care, and is not willing to alienate her parents for a principle. (I don't think she would alienate her parents-they want a relationship with their daughter and since the "appendage" comes with her, they more or less tolerate me. ) She contends that I should be content with being called something I am not, go along with the charade, and not cause waves by insisting on things like fairness and equality.

I said if MLK, Jr. and Gandhi thought that, where would we be? If MLK told African Americans to just be content with not being able to vote, or not being able to sit at the same lunch counter, or not being able to ride a bus home from work, to always defer to white people, we would have no civil rights. MLK stood on the principle of equality and fairness.

She said that was not her calling and if activists wanted to protest against unfair treatment and inequality let them, but it wasn't her fight. She said I could go and protest and "bully" people as she calls it, but she had other things to do and it just wasn't important to her. I said it was important enough to marry me in Canada. It was important enough to buy a house and make a life with me. All the neighbors know we are gay. Yet, in front of her mother, she says nothing. It is like for a moment in time, I am a bystander in this scene where she is 5 years old again and won't do anything to upset mommy. It is a freaky dynamic.

Bottom line-we are at a stalemate, and I feel like I am wrong to pursue this, to insist on being treated like her wife and not the family friend. She just wants me to sit down, shut up and not make a big deal about this. Let her mother relegate me to whatever position she wants, and just put up with it.

Any advice from you guys? I need to get out of this corner I feel like I am in. My wife is no help, but I am feeling kind of desperate.

[keltic63]

my guess is that the extended family knows, and that the charade is for her mother, who thinks she is fooling everyone else.

do you have a relationship with other members of the extended family? Is the only time you see any of these people at these large family gatherings? do you, or could you, spend time socializing with cousins, aunts & uncles, in more intimate settings or smaller groups? how often are you expected to shut up and play this role? is it once a year? twice?

I understand your anger. I've gone through some of that myself. I have a difficult time believing that the family is "buying" the family friend line. I started going to a family Christmas gathering with Scott a few years ago. I was introduced as the "friend" and I went along with it because Scott still had one foot in the closet. I had played at his cousin's wedding 6 months earlier, so I took her aside and asked what the family knew and how they would treat Scott. She said that half of them knew and didn't care and the other half would never get it, as in, they were clueless anyway. Everyone in his family accepts me as their own, and there never was a big introduction like "EVERYONE, THIS IS MY PARTNER....."

and you know, if you're off in a conversation with one of her aunts or cousins, and you just happen to let something slip......

[Zerbie]

Yeah, I think Dave's suggestion is quite smart. Because both your position and hers strike me as valid ways of handling the extended family situation - they aren't really close people in your everyday life, rather more like strangers. So I can see her point in letting it go to preserve her mother's comfort. As an activist, duh, of course I see your point! The problem is that you do not agree on the way to handle the heterocentrism coming from her mother. She says leave it alone, you say just spell it out for what it is. I agree, try going over this with a third party.

And can I just make an editorial comment? Damn! That makes me mad! That couples have to be burdened with stupidity like this thanks to homophobia! Sorry you are in this position, Png.

[antonyh]

PNG, it is significant that you mentioned MLK. My family have behaved like your family for years. Within the last year they have changed their approach and they welcome my partner and me into their home. Years ago I decided that I would take MLK's approach to the issue. I spoke the truth in love to them while not destroying our beloved community. The truth included, "I have a partner, and it is not going to change"; "My relationship is holy"; "You're forcing me into artificial choices between my partner and my family", etc.

The key here is the ability to speak the truth in love. I hear your frustration about not being able to introduce your partner as your partner. I side with you about how important this is, especially at family gatherings. You need to be able to introduce your wife as your partner. It may sting and cause waves at the precious family gatherings, but it is the only way to make progress.

Dave's idea about counseling may be a good one. Your wife seems to have comfort issues around her sexuality (understandable given society). In addition, she seems to have issues with her family. A psychologist I used to work with in Saint Louis, Missouri used to tell me all the time, "The two most important decisions anyone makes are to leave home physically and to leave home emotionally". The latter one is the difficult one.

Good luck with all of this. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

[pnggrad79]

I did schedule an appointment with a counselor for Friday.

keltic- I don't see these people except maybe twice a year(the extended family), her parents quite a bit more often. The issue is not whether they accept me or not. Some know. I told them. Or rather I confirmed when they asked. They were ok with it. Her cousin, who has been in law school, told me to get a medical power of attorney and a living will, so that in case something ever happened, my wife would have the final say not my parents. Anyway, yeah, they know, and it irks me to no end that even though they know, her mother likes to put on the facade of me being the family friend. Hell, I must be some friend, I keep hanging around her for some stupid reason.

zerbie- it makes me mad, too. I just feel stuck and depressed because I feel like she is choosing her parents over me. I want to run away and hide. I want to quit. I want to just tell her to either go marry a man and make her mother happy or defend me. She wants her cake and eat it too. I am her wife here at home. I am her wife at the store, at the mall, out to eat, paying bills, raising kids. But a magical transformation happens when we walk into her mother's house-she treats me like an infection, hardly talks to me, proceeds to hob nob with her parents and then rails me if I have the audacity to grab a book, and go hide in the corner somewhere. She wants me to perform for them. Make them like me. I don't care if they like me. I am me and if they don't like me, that is their problem. I have been in her life for 20 years. If they ain't got the clue by now, I ain't going nowhere. Why should I have to sing and dance just to get second class treatment. Even if I did have this sparkling personality, I would still get called the family friend. Why the hell should I put myself through the performance if I don't get anything in return?

Am I wrong? What is a compromise in this situation? Is there one to be found? I am so upset!!!!! And what hurts the most is I don't think she gives a damn! Just don't upset mommy. It's ok if I am upset, she can handle that. But God forbid mommy has to be uncomfortable. God forbid she has to amend her actions or be held accountable. But I sure as hell have to.

[NathanATX]

One thing i heard in what you wrote is that your wife has essentially given you permission to address the situation.

I would think about that. Write and rehearse a corrective statement.

Something you can say that isn't attacking mom.

Something kind and wise.

And the next time it comes up, speak up.

love,
Nate

[Emproph]

Well your wife obviously knows this upsets you. How would she feel if you just didn't go to her family functions. I don't think requesting that she understand your not wanting to subject yourself to what upsets you so much is too much to ask.

I realize it's probably more complicated than that, but a little absence once in a while might make her heart grow fonder for a little bit of "activism" on her part in this case.

Also, would her mother ever be willing to go to PFLAG? That might help her to be able to come out (as your mother in law...).

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by Emproph

Well your wife obviously knows this upsets you. How would she feel if you just didn't go to her family functions. I don't think requesting that she understand your not wanting to subject yourself to what upsets you so much is too much to ask.

I realize it's probably more complicated than that, but a little absence once in a while might make her heart grow fonder for a little bit of "activism" on her part in this case.

Also, would her mother ever be willing to go to PFLAG? That might help her to be able to come out (as your mother in law...).

My wife knows this upsets me and she doesn't care enough to do anything about it. If I say something to her mom, she will get upset that I offended her mom. If she says something to her mom, she is afraid that her mom will not love her anymore or some other such nonsense. It means more to her not to upset her mom than it does not to upset me. What can I do? All I can do is move on. If I stay stuck here, no good can come from it. She is bull-headed and stubborn and one of us has to bend.

The only thing I can do is just try to move past it, and the next time it happens, I just have to prepare myself not to react to the unfairness and the inequality. Hey, gay people deal with it everyday. I guess I am unreasonable to think that it will ever change. I just need to accept being a second class citizen in this country and in this family and know inside I am not.

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

One thing i heard in what you wrote is that your wife has essentially given you permission to address the situation.

I would think about that. Write and rehearse a corrective statement.

Something you can say that isn't attacking mom.

Something kind and wise.

And the next time it comes up, speak up.

love,
Nate

My wife has given me nothing. She told me last night, it didn't matter and that if I wanted to fight this fight I would have to do it alone. She doesn't support me in this because she thinks I should just shut up about it and accept being labeled "family friend". It is easier to just take the abuse than to stand up and defend me to her mother. She doesn't want to make mom uncomfortable. She would rather it eat me up inside. I guess I know where her loyalties lie. And they ain't with me.

If I do speak up, I need some help in being diplomatic, kind, and wise, because all I really want to say is, "I am the family friend WITH BENEFITS" I know all that would do is tick my wife off, and although she seems to have free reign to tick me off , I can't do it to her.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

zerbie- it makes me mad, too. I just feel stuck and depressed because I feel like she is choosing her parents over me.

Have you told her this?
Directly?

Sounds like this a compromise that you really cannot make. She may need to grow more into her own independent person around her family here and be the one to shift in position.

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Have you told her this?
Directly?

Sounds like this a compromise that you really cannot make. She may need to grow more into her own independent person around her family here and be the one to shift in position.

Zerbie, yes I did tell her that. She accused me of manipulating the situation to get what I wanted. She also said that I just needed to stop feeling depressed because she wasn't planning on doing anything to change the situation. She refuses to even talk to her mom about this. All I want is for her to defend me. She said I needed to give her something to defend.

I agree she needs to grow more independent of her parents but hell will freeze over before that happens. She doesn't see it as a problem. I see it as her choosing to please them over me. I live with her, and it doesn't seem to matter to her that this has bothered me for years now. In her mind I just need to get over it.

[pnggrad79]

Originally Posted by u-dog

An appointment for both of you? Because it won't help to go alone. the only thing you can do if you go to the counselor alone is decide to leave or to stuff your feelings and stay. You aren't broken and neither is your wife. what IS broken is your communication around this issue. The counselor can help you and your wife to fix whats broken but only if you're there together. If you don't do it , you are risking a lot.

Udog,
My wife thinks she is right and even if she isn't, she isn't going to do anything differently no matter what the consequences are for us. She said last night that I may be right to insist on equal treatment. But she isn't going to confront her mother and her mother certainly isn't going to stop referring to me as "family friend". Therefore, it is my problem. It may be our problem technically, but my wife has assigned the problem to me since I am the one with the issue about it. She basically washed her hands of it last night, said it wasn't her fight and that I was the one driving the wedge between us for making a big deal out of it.

So us both going to a counselor would be unproductive. I would feel ganged up on. What I am going for is simply to figure out if there is a way I can feel better about this. She says I just need to let it go. All she wants is peace and quiet at home and I have the nerve to upset that balance by insisting on fair treatment. She is pissed at me for not shutting up about it.

She doesn't want to hear me out on this. She thinks I am right, but that doesn't matter when it comes to Mommy Dearest. Right is not important. Keeping the peace is important at my expense.

I don't mean to slam my partner. I just wish that my feelings mattered.

[antonyh]

Remember that in all of this it is not your fault or your wife's fault that we live in a homophobic society. It has real distorting power in our lives and in our families. I think the most painful aspect of homophobia is when it causes an intimate partner to devalue your relationship with her own family. I was in a relationship like that and wrote an angry poem about it. Not a great poem, but it gets the point across.

Toxic Fears

I loved you
but you loved fear more.

You inhaled
the toxic fears that penetrate the air
and made them your lovers
instead of me.

I kissed you
but you turned your head
to embrace
the shame in your soul
and make dogma your lover
instead of me.

I lived with you
but you shut me out
to open
the front door to your oppressors
and make them your loved ones
instead of me.

It is going to require patience and understanding to navigate this. And I don't think there is an easy fix.

[Steven E. Webster]

Png,

I have some questions:

How has/does your marriage manifest itself? Did you get legally married (in Canada, for instance)? Do you wear rings? Do you own/share a home together? Are you raising children together?

I don't have any easy answers to your problem. I'm just wondering if being called a "family friend" by your mom-in-law would be such a big deal if it were obvious to people that you are more than a mere aquaintance--that you and her daughter are making a life together.

Are there other ways that your relationship is being denied or nullified or hidden besides the "family friend" label? Are there other issues?

I hear stories (and have experienced first hand) how getting legally married (in Canada, for instance) makes a big difference. Family, friends and co-workers treat you differently and you feel different yourself.

Right now, my biggest irritation is filling out forms that ask me whether I'm married or single. Last time I got one of those forms there was a sizable blank space after the words "married" and "single" and so I wrote "in Canada" after the word "married" and "in Wisconsin" after the word "single." (By the way, I'm wondering how other folks in this forum deal with those stupid married/single blanks on forms?)

I'm anxious to hear what Polly has to say about couple's counseling. I'm hoping a counselor would help both of you clarify your ideas and feelings without taking sides on any of the issues. I think that's what a good counselor would do. Maybe Polly and Udog might comment here on how one recognizes a good job of counseling.

Steven Webster

[Daniel]

Pnggrad- My heart goes out to you.

My hubby and I have been dealing with a similar issue for years now. Oh....the fights we would have about it.

Here's what I think.

You are damn right. Your partner needs to stand up for you, and by not doing so- is- defacto- 'choosing' her family over you.

I used to be the one in our relationship who asked my hubby to accompany me to family gatherings, were various family members would give him he cold shoulder etc etc. Bad manners to the max. Me? It took me a LONG time to realize the dysfunctional family dynamic I was playing into. Hey. I was used to it, so I didn't think my hubby's concerns were that big a deal. Not until he decided he wasn't going to go with me anymore.

My sense is that YOU are the one who is going to have to change matters. And yes- it may be tough- and your partner may be pissed as hell with you, but if you continue to let yourself be treated badly- well- that's what you're going to keep getting.

My hubby refused to go to gatherings when my siblings were present (my parent's - God bless them- have manners) until this year. It took two years for them to get the message. And I had to answer questions of 'why isn't Jonathan here' when asked. Answers which entailed me pausing for a few seconds....looking my sibling full in the face and saying something as simple as 'he's busy'. They got the message.

I had to learn to stand up for my guy. Plain and simple. (My less religiously conservative sliblings 'got it', while there is still one member of my family which my guy still refuses to see- and I respect that: my older missionary brother.) And if your gal can't do that- that's a serious concern. And I can tell you as plain as day that if this issue isn't dealt with, it is going to eat away at your relationship like acid. And if you are resenting your partner now, you will be soon enough. And that's no fun.

If you can- I would put the matter on the line. Drag you partner into couples counseling.

Know what the issue probably is for her? She thinks that her parents will reject her if she stands up for herself and you. Well....duh! She can't have it both ways! She's going to have to learn to stand up for herself and you.

It's about respect. Not love.

RESPECT.

You don't treat those you love disrespectfully.

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

Udog,
My wife thinks she is right and even if she isn't, she isn't going to do anything differently no matter what the consequences are for us. She said last night that I may be right to insist on equal treatment. But she isn't going to confront her mother and her mother certainly isn't going to stop referring to me as "family friend". Therefore, it is my problem. It may be our problem technically, but my wife has assigned the problem to me since I am the one with the issue about it. She basically washed her hands of it last night, said it wasn't her fight and that I was the one driving the wedge between us for making a big deal out of it.

So us both going to a counselor would be unproductive. I would feel ganged up on. What I am going for is simply to figure out if there is a way I can feel better about this. She says I just need to let it go. All she wants is peace and quiet at home and I have the nerve to upset that balance by insisting on fair treatment. She is pissed at me for not shutting up about it.

She doesn't want to hear me out on this. She thinks I am right, but that doesn't matter when it comes to Mommy Dearest. Right is not important. Keeping the peace is important at my expense.

I don't mean to slam my partner. I just wish that my feelings mattered.

For what this is worth, dear heart, what you are experiencing is not unlike what many couples of any gender combination go through. The issue of you being a same-sex partner, while compicating the issue possibly, is not the root of this.

In reading what you have said about your wife and your mother-in-law, the family resemblance is uncanny, don't you think? Is not your wife's sense of comfort (read: avoidance of conflict) and conformity to family norms (read: stuck in a self-destructive pattern of self-denial even in the face of evidence saying it is unnecessary) just as ingrained as her mother's. There is a family dynamic at play here that is way deeper than her relationship with you. One small mental experiment would be to take your description of your mother-in-law, but substitute your wife's identity for mom, and then see if the description is still relatively accurate.

I have a difficult time believing this is isolated just to family situations. Doesn't it line up with your wife's lack of inclination to be an "activist"? That seems like a purely illogical dychotomy - floormat or activist - black or white, with no persection of shades of gray. I would imagine this flows through the various "families" of which you wife is a member.

Possibly a family systems counselor would work. In family systems, the counselor generally works with the least symptomatic family member, and despite what you say about your emotional state, you may be that person. There are familial patterns at play here, IMO, that you need to understand in order to comprehend reactions or change the way in which you apply stimulus. The family seeks homeostasis and whoever "pushes" the change is the one that will provide the rallying point against which all the other players will push back. That again would be you, which in that model reveals you are the least symptomatic.

This is a crude nutshell of an explanation, based on limited information, but a family systems approach may just be able to teach you how to apply non-violent resistance and pressure in the right directions - or help you decide if you want to be bothered in the first place.

What I don't here in this is where daddy lines up - is he even in the picture?

[rainbow7]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

Udog,
My wife thinks she is right and even if she isn't, she isn't going to do anything differently no matter what the consequences are for us. She said last night that I may be right to insist on equal treatment. But she isn't going to confront her mother and her mother certainly isn't going to stop referring to me as "family friend". Therefore, it is my problem. It may be our problem technically, but my wife has assigned the problem to me since I am the one with the issue about it. She basically washed her hands of it last night, said it wasn't her fight and that I was the one driving the wedge between us for making a big deal out of it.

So us both going to a counselor would be unproductive. I would feel ganged up on. What I am going for is simply to figure out if there is a way I can feel better about this. She says I just need to let it go. All she wants is peace and quiet at home and I have the nerve to upset that balance by insisting on fair treatment. She is pissed at me for not shutting up about it.

She doesn't want to hear me out on this. She thinks I am right, but that doesn't matter when it comes to Mommy Dearest. Right is not important. Keeping the peace is important at my expense.

I don't mean to slam my partner. I just wish that my feelings mattered.

Your feelings DO matter, and so do hers. It is not the therapist's job to take sides......you each have your perspective and you each seem convinced that you are "right." A competent couples counselor can help you to hear each other through this impasse; to hear the feelings that are at the root of the broken communication, and to begin to understand and validate each other's perspectives. I believe that when we promise to share our lives with another person, one of the things we are promising is to keep trying to understand each other's experience and help our partner to understand our own experience. Sometimes even the best relationship needs someone to help with this process.

An investment in couples counseling is an investment in the present and future of your relationship. Research is clear that when only one partner participates in counseling, the chances for the relationship's survival decrease.

Couples therapy is hard work, but if you value your relationship, it is well worth the investment. There are many here who support you!

Polly

[pnggrad79]

Thank you all for your advice, support and concern. I spent yesterday in a really dark place emotionally, and I just didn't know how much of a relationship we had left after my wife and I had reached this impasse. Like I said in a previous post, I have been in her life for 20 years, 7 of those in a relationship, 3 of them married. Her family knows me, and has known me for all those years. It isn't like we are just getting to know each other. The difficulty is that her mother refuses to recognize that we are married and I suspect she hopes that my wife will one day realize this is a mistake, leave me, and go after a man.

Last night, she came home, sat down next to me and said, "I just got off the phone with mom, and told her that I wanted her to stop referring to you as the family friend. She is my wife and not just a friend." Her mom said something like she didn't recognize it as a marriage. My wife reminded her that we were married whether she recognized it or not. She said that from now on, if introductions were to be made, she would make them. I asked her how she would introduce me. She said, "As my wife or partner"

I asked her if her mom promptly threw her out of the family. She said no that she really overestimated her mother's reaction. I knew she had, but trying to convince her of that was a battle to say the least.

We are going over to her mom's house today and we will see how it goes. Her mom may not speak to me, I don't know. I do know that during the conversation she had with her mother, she said that her mom complained about a lot of petty stuff, like me not saying hello to her, or not helping in the kitchen. OH MY GOD!!! So now I have to walk on eggshells around this woman who obviously wears her feelings on her shoulder, and looks for things she doesn't like about me.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

Thank you all for your advice, support and concern. I spent yesterday in a really dark place emotionally, and I just didn't know how much of a relationship we had left after my wife and I had reached this impasse. Like I said in a previous post, I have been in her life for 20 years, 7 of those in a relationship, 3 of them married. Her family knows me, and has known me for all those years. It isn't like we are just getting to know each other. The difficulty is that her mother refuses to recognize that we are married and I suspect she hopes that my wife will one day realize this is a mistake, leave me, and go after a man.

Last night, she came home, sat down next to me and said, "I just got off the phone with mom, and told her that I wanted her to stop referring to you as the family friend. She is my wife and not just a friend." Her mom said something like she didn't recognize it as a marriage. My wife reminded her that we were married whether she recognized it or not. She said that from now on, if introductions were to be made, she would make them. I asked her how she would introduce me. She said, "As my wife or partner"

I asked her if her mom promptly threw her out of the family. She said no that she really overestimated her mother's reaction. I knew she had, but trying to convince her of that was a battle to say the least.

We are going over to her mom's house today and we will see how it goes. Her mom may not speak to me, I don't know. I do know that during the conversation she had with her mother, she said that her mom complained about a lot of petty stuff, like me not saying hello to her, or not helping in the kitchen. OH MY GOD!!! So now I have to walk on eggshells around this woman who obviously wears her feelings on her shoulder, and looks for things she doesn't like about me.

WOW PNG your wife is one helluva fantastic woman!! She totally rose to the occasion and faced her huge fears of bucking her mother's expectation, to be an adult and respect you.

I'm so glad!

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

WOW PNG your wife is one helluva fantastic woman!! She totally rose to the occasion and faced her huge fears of bucking her mother's expectation, to be an adult and respect you.

I'm so glad!

Yeah, I'd run with that sentiment for now. Not just with your wife but with her mom as well. It appears that you've just been given time.

When you mentioned the part about "not saying hello to her, or not helping in the kitchen," it didn't strike me immediately as petty (I don't doubt that it may have been), but the imagery I got when I read that was that on an emotional level, she didn't feel that you were "playing" the daughter-in-law role enough -- even on a basic level -- as far as the desire to engage in simple things enough for her to feel comfortable enough to be open about being your mother-in-law.

It's a roundabout to be sure, just something to consider.

At this point I almost get the impression you could have gone over your wife's head about this and taken it up directly with your mother-in-law and "won." (cool of head of course , but therein lies the challenge)

I think I'll stop projecting onto your relationships now...