Your Perfect Mate

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by paul

I agree that Santa is a childhood fantasy. "Mutuality" is not.

I am going to steal from what little knowledge I have of Daniel, pieced together from other things you have said over the months I have been reading your comments. I know you believe in what I call "love," and I am guessing that you beloved does also. You are both involved in making an effort of giving that goes beyond getting. It sounds to me like you both know how to give, and further, that giving is a hallmark. Many relationships settle into mutual exploitation till they implode or explode because one or both people are focused on getting. What I hear you saying is that relationship is all about mutual giving?

...we get as good as we give! That said, it's not a relationship is based on currency. That's kinda materialistic and a hairs breath away from the kind of scorekeeping that can go on. And from there one slides head first into resentment for what one thinks one isn't getting.

I have my own pet theory about this. And it's this: the challenge of 'relationship' is that we have to- in the end- give the very thing we want. And I think this is a very hard lesson to learn. At least it has been for me. I find myself going back to this thought over and over again.

When we're in love, this seems effortless. But after the ardor has cooled somewhat and relative (rather than cosmic) reality sets in.....well....that's when the fun begins.

[paul]

Originally Posted by Daniel

...we get as good as we give! That said, it's not a relationship is based on currency. That's kinda materialistic and a hairs breath away from the kind of scorekeeping that can go on. And from there one slides head first into resentment for what one thinks one isn't getting.
Dan'l

We are so on the same page with this. There is the law of kharma, or reaping what we sew, or what ever other sacred scriptural version there is to describe this reality. Love is lost if it is based on the expectation of reciprocation...it becomes manipulative, which is the opposite of love. Interesting that the law of kharma cannot be fooled. If we give immitation love we will get immitation love in return. I love how you understand this and what you have said. The dynamic becomes particularly apparent when we endeavor to "love our enemies," that can be a great revealer of the heart if we are not loving for loves sake.
I have my own pet theory about this. And it's this: the challenge of 'relationship' is that we have to- in the end- give the very thing we want. And I think this is a very hard lesson to learn. At least it has been for me. I find myself going back to this thought over and over again.
Me too, more kharma. I have seen it similarly. We all want love, but if we're all spending our energy trying to get love instead of give love, then there is no love out there to get. If we would all practice giving love instead trying to extract it, then there would be enough to go around for everyone.
When we're in love, this seems effortless. But after the ardor has cooled somewhat and relative (rather than cosmic) reality sets in.....well....that's when the fun begins.

That's when we can become creators vs. reacting to a feeling that motivates us.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by paul

We are so on the same page with this. There is the law of kharma, or reaping what we sew, or what ever other sacred scriptural version there is to describe this reality. Love is lost if it is based on the expectation of reciprocation...it becomes manipulative, which is the opposite of love. Interesting that the law of kharma cannot be fooled. If we give immitation love we will get immitation love in return. I love how you understand this and what you have said. The dynamic becomes particularly apparent when we endeavor to "love our enemies," that can be a great revealer of the heart if we are not loving for loves sake.

Loving one's enemies.

I have to credit Buddhist thought for my perspective on this one. As such, the idea is to first generate compassion for one's self, then to extend that compassion (which is an actual feeling and not merely a 'thought') to whose whom one has a natural affinity such as a parent, lover or friend. Then one extends this compassion in an ever-widening circle- reaching 'enemy territory' only after first going through those whom one may be indifferent towards- or who are simply annoying. In essence: one has to build up to it like the marathon runner. You don't start with the marathon: you go out a jog around the block a few times first.

As a practice- which is done systematically in meditation- I think there is a lot to be said for it. It's doable. Esoteric Christianity has it's own form of this kind of thing: Heart-Centered Prayer.

Whatever the means- I think we do too little of this kind of thing. And I know that this can be hard to pull off (organizationally speaking) in modern life, which demands so much from us: everything is competing for our attention- even this forum.

That said, I don't see how we will live into the next century without generating and establishing this kind of connection with each other, whether it is between lovers or countries.

To quote the Beatles. "All You Need Is Love" Ok. Where's it gonna come from? The 'other' person?

We all gotta look hard in the mirror and see what we're sending out into the world. Yeah Paul.....I like what you end with.....we become 'creators'.

[Zerbie]

God!! I LOVE you two!!!!!!





Angels.

[Vanessa White]

I had created an almost full post about this thread, and then DELETED it! SO let me try again. I started off by saying how much I agree with Zerb- Paul and Daniel rock!!! Paul, thank you so much for your individualized responses here; it really helped me to feel special and I appreciate it so much!! And, with Daniel, I get amazed at how often what he posts is so similar to how I view a situation or subject. And, love and partnership is all about giving to others what you most want; a challenge it most certainly is, that is true. And, spoken by another genius, Paul McCartney, on Abbey Road, "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

I wanted to respond to Paul's question from my post:

"Wow...so many LGBT are estranged from their families. Do both of your families accept you as individuals and a couple? Do you have their continued support and love?"
We both have pretty consistent support with our identity/orientation from our families, and we are very supported by parents and sibs as a couple and a family. Her family with me, my family with her, both families very happy when we reconciled. They both had some troubles with our desire to be parents, but dissolved when they saw their granddaughter. Now, they would have it no other way.

"2. Care for others, including all living things and the earth- we are both very connected to our pets, which we have several, and have great respect for them. We also have great appreciation and respect for trees, land, sky, stars, earth. We are both native american blood lines and I think that influences it a bit.
Really?? This is something new I didn't know about you. What kind of pets to you have? I think you do some kind of social work? How about your wife?"

My partner is from Micmac canadian tribe; myself Poarch band Creek from Alabama. We have five cats, a dog, a guinea pig, and angel fish. An animal farm for sure, in an old fashioned house with an acre including woods. Love it. My honey is an artist, but can't easily make a living at it, so she is working in the meantime, and taking classes for art certification on line. I do love being a counselor (boy, does it show??LOL)

"3. Loyalty- we are fiercely loyal to one another, and I had already been in relationships, as had she, when the person was unfaithful and were at the receiving end of the betrayal. That is unwavering in my book, and hers.
security?"

Are you asking, could that also indicate a feeling of security? Absolutely. I do feel very secure in our relationship and commitment, except when I am having an insecure day when I feel jealous/insecure and need some extra validation, which each of us readily give to one another.....
"4. Soul connection- how do I describe THIS one? I mean, I am definitely the more expressive one of the two of us, in terms of affairs of the heart, but have us look deeply into one another's eyes, and we can see each other's soul. I am not joking- for real. Talk about being totally vulnerable, yet totally secure at the same time. I NEVER experienced that with another person on this earth.
Is this innate or something that you developed or some of both?"

I had never experienced it with another person before, nor since. But, I always imagined that I would have that connection with my true love, that deep indescribable connection. And, we both have very strong intuition with others, and especially with one another, whether together or apart. I think it is born and bred in both of us. When we went on our first date, we found out that even though we ended up in PA with our families, we actually grew up less than an hour from each other as children in Massachusetts!!! Talk about bizarre.....

"Communication feels risky, but very rewarding when their is love."
Could not be said better, Paul. It makes the risk worthwhile.

"Gee, I have always pictured you as a person who can laugh at their self. You seem like a very together person to me. My mental picture of you is someone with laughing eyes."

I love you Paul.
I do laugh at myself quite a bit at times; without malice, just because it is the right thing to do!! LOL But, I get caught up at times with all of the "necessities" of life, time, demands, etc., and just get too bogged down with reality, and I need to get snapped out of it. She definitely helps me with that....

"8. An open heart- She is one of the most open hearted people I have ever known, but she doesn't let that on to many people. I feel priveledged to be among those that know that about her.
yeah, this one is a prize to me also. "

I used to think that a person with an open heart had to keep it visible and available all the time; like I used to be. And I also always thought that if I didn't keep it on my sleeve, than I would be cutting off a part of my loving self; denying myself to those who needed me. Not true. She has helped me to see that as well; that we can be loving and open and giving, without giving up our entire selves. We can't keep giving if we lose that.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

I used to think that a person with an open heart had to keep it visible and available all the time; like I used to be. And I also always thought that if I didn't keep it on my sleeve, than I would be cutting off a part of my loving self; denying myself to those who needed me. Not true. She has helped me to see that as well; that we can be loving and open and giving, without giving up our entire selves. We can't keep giving if we lose that.

You have a wonderful, wise partner.

I love you, Vanessa, very beautiful. Similarly to Paul, I imagine you with smiling eyes, always ready to smile and always quick to melt in kindness. Lots of love in you.

[matthewspeed]

Pablo,
I feel you have a pretty fair list. Though, I get nervous about the athletic part when I see that criteria on a dating site. Everyone has a different definition of what "Athletic" is. I love to cycle, hike, walk/jog. But I am no "bodybuilder" I sure dont have abs of steele! LOL! Not over weight, but just not that buff.

By looking at your photo Pablo, you look pretty "buff." Nice looking guy!: My goal is to get back to the gym- get that toned look back!

[Pablo Rafael]

Originally Posted by matthewspeed

I get nervous about the athletic part when I see that criteria on a dating site.

Actually that "athletic mountain biker" part is sort of an add on. If I am going to to get a "perfect" mate I thought I might as well add that. Plus other stuff like:
likes foreign movies
likes to cook
likes a clean house (to get me out of the slobdom that I live in)
likes the mountains
likes snow shoeing in the winter

By looking at your photo Pablo, you look pretty "buff." Nice looking guy!: My goal is to get back to the gym- get that toned look back!

I like this guy already. The rest of you should take some notes. I will take all the good comments I can get.

Actually I really decided it was time to get in better shape when I turned 40. I looked around at all the other men my age around here, overweight and out of shape and sloppy, (all straight guys, by the way) and said that it was time to keep that from happening to me. I have found weight training is a drag at first, but then it becomes routine and just a part of life.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

Actually I really decided it was time to get in better shape when I turned 40. I looked around at all the other men my age around here, overweight and out of shape and sloppy, (all straight guys, by the way) and said that it was time to keep that from happening to me. I have found weight training is a drag at first, but then it becomes routine and just a part of life.

what??? you do weight training in drag? doesn't your makeup run when you get all sweaty? are planning on running in any "Drag Races"???

[paul]

Originally Posted by keltic63

what??? you do weight training in drag? doesn't your makeup run when you get all sweaty? are planning on running in any "Drag Races"???

Steve!!



You really picked up on Pablos hidden confession ...but you gotta understand that Pablo is a natural beauty, no makeup required. and, he's so buff he doesn't break a sweat. and now we know you are gay, one doesn't run in "drag races"...gotta have a car for that.

[Pablo Rafael]

Originally Posted by keltic63

what??? you do weight training in drag? doesn't your makeup run when you get all sweaty? are planning on running in any "Drag Races"???

Originally Posted by paul

Steve!!



You really picked up on Pablos hidden confession ...but you gotta understand that Pablo is a natural beauty, no makeup required. and, he's so buff he doesn't break a sweat. and now we know you are gay, one doesn't run in "drag races"...gotta have a car for that.

I pride myself in being able to come up with a smart alek response to anything. But this conversation has left me pretty much speechless.

And the thought of me in drag makes me a bit queasy; I'm sure the rest of you feel the same way.

Pablo

[Pablo Rafael]

Listening to NPR this weekend I learned that if the fan belt in your vehicle breaks, you can use panty hose for a fan belt and things will work just fine.

I don't know how I have made it this far in life without knowing that piece of information.

[paul]

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

Listening to NPR this weekend I learned that if the fan belt in your vehicle breaks, you can use panty hose for a fan belt and things will work just fine.

I don't know how I have made it this far in life without knowing that piece of information.

Pablo,

You've been listening to "Car Talk" haven't you...NPR indeed (barely).

[drewcaine]

I guess I could go with a guy who's very loving, strong, and truthful. Hopefully he's not agnostic and believes in God. Someone who likes to go on romps outside (wrestling, adventuring, just being like puppies^_^) but doesn't mind playing video games or doing "nerdy" stuff (like D&D, etc.). I would hope that he wouldn't try to pressure me into something that I'm not ready for, but wouldn't mind spending plenty of quality time together and alone. He would be willing to show his affection for me in public and wouldn't mind holding hands/kissing when we went out. Ultimately, my "tiger" would be the one who could take away my pain on those dark days and relieve my stress whenever I come home. Oh, and I would always look forward to waking up in the morning right beside him and pouncing on him, saying, "Heya, tiger!"...then he'd give me a drowsy lick and smile...yeah, I was day-dreaming this morning when I woke up.
and Yeah, I'm a romanticist>_>
drewcaine