Honey, I'm gay

[andrewlittle]

A seemingly even handed article about coming out while married:

The Wills' commitment to making their mixed-orientation marriage work over the long haul is more the exception for couples in this situation.

Full story:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/perso...use/index.html

[sailaway58]

That is an interesting article. I am sure coming to their arrangement was much more stressful than the article made it feel. My question to you Andy is as a minister, how do you feel about the arrangement?
I have read other articles that suggest this as an option but I am not sure I could endorse it, (not that it would matter or that anyone would ask my opinion)
I guess I still kind of want boundary's, although it does seem to work for them.

[BenL]

Charley and I spent three years exploring what we thought was a mixed orientation marriage. We belonged to several online groups, and we attended two 3D gatherings for mixed orientation couples. We even met Amity Buxton, quoted in the article.

But there was a difference for us: I had come out to Charley as gay before we started dating. Most men and women in MOMs either haven't come to terms with their orientation, or they hide it out of a desire to change it or to lead normal lives. It was at the second gathering, which was like a retreat in many ways without being explicitly religious or spiritual, during some personal time together, that Charley, who was female-bodied, was able to come out to me as transsexual. I was flabbergasted. I had never thought of that as a possibility.

We are probably the rarest of combinations, a gay man married to a female-to-male transsexual. We found that most of what the article relates is true. Most marriages in which one member "comes out" break up within three years of the announcement, many immediately. Of those that continue, many find alternate arrangements than traditional monogamy. It's my belief, having shared so much with so many couples, that as long as both partners agree to such arrangements -- and one is not forcing the other to accept them -- there is nothing wrong with it. But it is also my belief that very few of those open marriages thrive in the long term. Often the strain on one of the partners, usually the non-gay person, is too much.

I personally think that God created us to be in relationship with another person exclusively. To me, that is the ideal. When I say this, I don't intend in any way to stand in judgment over those who practice polyamory or who have mutually decided to open their marriages. The deeper problem in society is that because gay men and lesbians are not allowed to be themselves openly they often seek what they consider a "normal" life in a seemingly heterosexual marriage. Often the gay person is in deep denial of his or her own orientation. This can bring a life of pain and depression. Interestingly, most of the people in mixed orientation marriage whom I have known sincerely love each other. They share years of history which often include children whom both of them love. Had they been allowed to express their true orientation, dated people of the same sex in high school, and married in due course, a lot of this suffering would not have taken place.

Couples in mixed orientation marriages need the church to minister to them with love and acceptance of who they are as people. Counseling, both individual and couples, is extremely helpful in allowing them to discern the path they should take. Often there is a lot of hurt on both sides of such relationships that need healing, both mental and spiritual. Charley and I, who have remained commited to staying together and faithful to our original vows, have found counseling indispensable.

Pastors should acquaint themselves with what services are available in their communities and who the qualified counselors for such couples are. One or both members of a mixed orientation couple often discloses first to a member of the clergy when looking for help. Clergy aren't expected to be mental health clinicians unless they have the training for it. They need to be like EMTs, first responders, however, assuring these people that God loves them, and that as difficult as it seems, such relationships can be worked out with love and grace, whether the end result is separation or growing in to a new reality in their marriage.

I feel very strongly about this, having spent the last five years in that growth process. Mine was the unusual situation. I learned that I had been living for 30+ years with the man of my dreams. I think it is a one-in-a-million outcome. Most face the pain of separation, but those who face their realities with honesty and love, often remain friends for life and can co-parent their children with grace.

Please take these people seriously. There are many more of them than you think. Try not to judge them. They need our support as they find their way in their often perplexing relationships.

[Zerbie]

Beautiful, Ben.

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by sailaway58

That is an interesting article. I am sure coming to their arrangement was much more stressful than the article made it feel. My question to you Andy is as a minister, how do you feel about the arrangement?
I have read other articles that suggest this as an option but I am not sure I could endorse it, (not that it would matter or that anyone would ask my opinion)
I guess I still kind of want boundary's, although it does seem to work for them.

I'm not skipping over Ben's thoroughly erudite post - it's just that all I could say to that would be, "Wow. Nicely thought out and written."

As to what I would do, say or recommend - I would honestly hope that I could be the pastor Ben described.

As has been a practice since long before being a minister, I try not to filter what others say in intimate or revealing conversations through my own moral barometer. My concern in a situation like that described in the article - or in Ben's - would be the two people involved.

While I am built to be monogamous, I do not presume that all others are - or that monogamy itself represents an ideal. I also have my boundaries, but they are just that - MY boundaries.

What does represent an ideal for me is that the welfare of all people involved be considered, and that any arrangements, such as "open" marriage or polyamory for instance, be mutually acceptable and be based on honesty and respect. An arrangement like that is not really problematic for me especially when compared to a secretive affair, which is also far more common.

I also come poorly equipped to be helpful in the long-run in anything other than a pastoral role. Most couples in this situation would need professional counseling, which I could not provide, but I could augment that by encouraging theological reflection and by affirming the Godly image in each of us. I would gladly work along with their counselling to deal with religious issues.

Now I'm just repeating what Ben said first and better.

I will say, however, that when Ben said ...

Mine was the unusual situation. I learned that I had been living for 30+ years with the man of my dreams.

... it struck me as a remarkably beautiful statement of love and fluidity.

[pnggrad79]

My only thought is- People have to do what is right for THEM.

I couldn't do stay in a mixed orientation marriage, but that was me. I had to make the decision based on what was right for me. That doesn't mean it's the right thing for everyone! I admire people like Ben, Zerbie, Paul, and others who have mixed orientation marriages, because they are MAKING IT WORK! It didn't work for me. I wasn't in love with the man I was married to. Love is the key. Love has always been the determining factor.

The people in this article LOVE each other. If you have that, you can make anything situation work.

[BenL]

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

As has been a practice since long before being a minister, I try not to filter what others say in intimate or revealing conversations through my own moral barometer. My concern in a situation like that described in the article - or in Ben's - would be the two people involved.

This is such an important skill, Andy. Without it you can't really hear what people are saying through their pain ... or even, sometimes, through their joy.

Originally Posted by andrewlittle

I also come poorly equipped to be helpful in the long-run in anything other than a pastoral role. Most couples in this situation would need professional counseling, which I could not provide, but I could augment that by encouraging theological reflection and by affirming the Godly image in each of us. I would gladly work along with their counselling to deal with religious issues.

Thank you for providing this dimension. Pastors sometimes forget that people with important issues they are working out also have a spiritual life. If they are active members of a church, they see those issues in terms of their relationship to God. No one wants to be reduced to a mental health diagnosis. They want to be affirmed in the whole of their persona. That's an important pastoral skill that I fear is not taught or remembered. Do seminarians still do CPE time in mental health clinics or hospitals? And when I say mental health, I don't mean crazy. Everyone has to take care of their mental health, just as they should take care of their physical health. And Andy reminds us here how important it is to care for our spiritual health as well, seeking out a spiritual counselor when approrpiate.

[sailaway58]

Great stuff Ben and Andy. your thoughts really help.
I don't know where I fit into all this but helping others work out what is best for them makes sense to me. That make my responsibility easy, supportive. I can do that.

[Gennee]

I read the article and identify. I am transgender and happily married for nearly 28 years. When I shared with my wife about my being transgender, it was a shock. She has accepted it as part of me. Over the past couple of weeks I have shared more with her about what it is to be transgender and a cross dresser.
My marriage is much more important that being transgender and I want to keep that. My 20 year old son is okay with my dressing up. I have shared things with my wife when the time was right. We're still the same quiet, fun loving couple we've always been.

Gennee