fundie phobes fedding at government trough at my son's expense

[RedneckDyke]

My younger son has schitzophrenia and lives in adult group homes in between hospital stays. He gets SSI which gets to paid to the group home. REcently, he has been moved to a new group home. The people who run it are the worst kind of fundies. They have told him that gays are abominations that go to hell. So far, they have only referrred to my partner and I. Our son is gay also, but the people don't know that yet.

In addition, they haul the residents to church every week. This is apparently pentecostal type church where is is a lot of crying, shouting, speaking in tongues, and passing out. Now, I respect other people's worship styles, but our son has told us the passing out and tongues scare him.

We are going to talk to his case worker as soon as possible about this.
#1 Religious phoby group home sholdn't take government money.

#2 Our son doesn't need to br forced to go to church, that is against the fist amendment.

#3 He has enough mental health problems without being told that him mother is going to hell. And being scared enough to have to hide his own orientation, which is hard for my fabu drag queen son.

I am angry about this and want these fundie nut cases to get their funding cut off.

[Zerbie]

What the - -??! Surely, this has to be illegal. Unless this is a private, religiously run institution, they have no legal right whatsoever to mandate church attendance. That is absurd, ludicrous, and obscene.

Talk to a lawyer about this.

[Vanessa White]

You should be angry, and empowered to do something about it. Sounds like they are violating civil rights and legally shouldn't take ANY government funding if that will be happening. Plus, your son deserves a heck of a lot better treatment than that negativity.

Let us know what happens, good luck....

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by RedneckDyke

:We are going to talk to his case worker as soon as possible about this.
#1 Religious phoby group home sholdn't take government money.

#2 Our son doesn't need to be forced to go to church, that is against the first amendment.

#3 He has enough mental health problems without being told that him mother is going to hell. And being scared enough to have to hide his own orientation, which is hard for my fabu drag queen son.

Contacting your State Senator? And other local folks? Your son's caseworker may need some assistance in getting this situation changed. And what if the caseworker is Ok with what's going on? Then that needs to be addressed too. If he/she were really doing their job, this situation would not have arisen in the first place.

The action by this these people clearly breachs the wall between the State and Church.

I'm appalled as you are that your son is being forced to attend any kind of religious institution. That's wrong.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Don't be too quick to assume the worst about the caseworker. These people are notoriously underpaid and labor under absurdly large caseloads. Offer to work with him/her and be as supportive and positive as possible and you will stay in the middle of their radar screen and at the top of the pile.

...if you will forgive me.

Look. Here's the deal. Hubby is getting his Master's in Social Work. I know the drill: there are lots of social workers who are overworked and underpaid. I know that. That's no excuse. And yes, it's a great idea to try to get this case on top of the pile- as it were- but the reality is that this mess is a mess because someone isn't doing their job. I don't think that's an assumption: its an assessment of the situation.

Do we know the 'caseworker' actually IS a caseworker? There are tons of people doing 'casework' who do not have the qualifications or training worthy of the name.

Ok?

Let me be loud and clear here: being 'nice' doesn't always make things right. And being loud and mouthy doesn't always get one what one needs either. One has to know whom one is talking to and what the situation actually is, not what one supposes it to be, or taking things for granted.

1) Is the agency handling this case certified by the state?

2) Is the 'caseworker' actually trained to do what her or she is doing?

3) Is bias involved in some way?

4) Is the agency involved in some way that it should not be? (kickback under table?)

These are important questions to figure out. The caseworker is just the icing on the top of the cake!

Rant over!

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by u-dog

take a deep breath!

If caseworkers are underpaid and given UNDOABLE amounts of work IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT!!!!! It is ALL OF OUR FAULTS. We do not take seriously the needs of the elderly, the mentally ill, children in dangerous situations. We would rather have nice houses on the lake, big cars, and cool gadgets then we would like to pay the necessary taxes to see to the needs of the disenfranchised and vulnerable. THEN when we discover that the unfortunates are being neglected we turn on the powerless people at the bottom rung of the ladder. People with little or no power!

And the truth of the matter is that jumping down the throats of underpaid, undertrained and overworked people will NOT get the needs of the vulnerable met. It will either get you shuffled to the bottom of the pile or it will get you another underpaid overworked caseworker who know EVEN LESS than the first one.

HENCE my advice. Be positive, be supportive, be cooperative. be persistent, be friendly and helpful.

I know ALL OF THIS from first hand experience both personal and professional.

I do not want to fight, but do you think I'm stupid or something? I'm not advocating 'jumping down the throats' of anyone. I'm suggesting that the way to get this young man help is by asking the hard questions and getting help from the appropriate sources. I mean let's GET REAL here. You are acting as if it is the social worker who is suffering.

Get a grip my friend!

It's the client and the family that is suffering. And if something isn't done right away to deal with the problem, the situation is not going to get better. That's the objective here. If the social worker is overworked blah blah blah then that's a problem, but that's not the problem that needs solving here.

And for you to go off and throw the blame on society blah blah blah is a pure cop-out. That isn't going to solve anything. As they say in social worker lingo- it's not the 'presenting problem'. It's not the problem that needs solving here and now.

I'm advocating for dealing with the problem. Being 'nice' isn't going to solve it. Sure. It may help. But really dealing with this kind of thing means that someone has to take action.

And if that means being a son-of-a-bitch: so be it.

Think of me what you will- but I'm not backing off on this one.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by u-dog

I think that you are a lot of things, Daniel. Stupid is not among them.

I am coming off of TWO extended interactions with low level, overworked government functionaries. One in the US Department of education and one with Medicaid.

I speak as a well educated middle-class white (presumably straight) man used to being able to make any system dance to my tune because of my priveleged status. Believe me when I tell you that I know how to work a bureaucratic system. These two extended interactions (over the course of 6 months in each case) nearly reduced me to tears of despair. Polly had to physically restrain me from pounding my forehead against a cinderblock wall. Joseph Heller and Franz Kafka together could not have written a story that was as bizzare as my experiences. In each case the problem was finally resolved to my satisfaction SOLELY BECAUSE ONE INDIVIDUAL FUNCTIONARY DECIDED THAT THEY WANTED TO HELP ME.
If I had never found or appealed to that person's desire to help... I would still be going round and round. Short of hiring a lawyer at great personal expense YOU CANNOT FORCE THEM TO DO ANYTHING THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO.

Consequently, the only strategy that will work is treating people in a way that they are enticed into GIVING A SH*T. The problem with people who are underpaid and overworked and who get shouted at by officious, frustrated people all day long is that they do not NATURALLY GIVE A SH*T.

The rules don't mean shit. policy doesn't mean sh*t. justice doesn't mean sh*t. Your rights don't mean sh*t. "should be" doesn't mean sh*t. The only thing that matters is whether the person you are talking to is motivated to help you or not.

The fact is that in any disfunctional system THERE ARE LOTS OF VICTIMS. The vulnerable person is one. The family member responsible for the vulnerable person is ANOTHER victim. The underpaid overworked, powerless caseworker is ANOTHER victim. If you erroneously identify one of the other victims as a perpetrator you are well and truly f***ed. Only if you make common cause with the other victims of the disfunctional system do you have a whisper of a prayer of getting what you want.

That is my experience. That's ALL I'm saying.

I don't want to fight either.

You're not really interested in what this woman is facing.. And you have no experience in dealing with a son- with his situation, would that be correct?

I get it now: it's all about you.

Oh yeah......I agree...one has to find the person who is going to help one. But it HAS NOT been established that this social worker is going to do that. And IF she cannot do that, or is willling to do that, what do you suggest?

More sweet talk?

Maybe that will work, but what if it doesn't? Then what? What if RedNeck has to hire a lawyer to get her son out of there? I really don't think you are thinking HER situation through- you're too damn busy with your own.

Redneck came here because she has a serious issue to deal with.

Your situation (and I mean your dealings with " low level, overworked government functionaries") does not apply to everyone else's my friend.

You are assuming way to much- perhaps- because you are dealing with too much. (Hey! It's great you were able to find someone to help you: others are not so lucky. Others DO have to talk to lawyers and/or sue- God Forbid. But that is how change happens for many, because ONE is willing to go the distance for everyone else. And if that isn't Christian, what is?)

I disagree with you: policy means a great deal, especially as to who - and what - agency is setting it- and who is overseeing that policy being carried out. That's why we all go out and vote. That is why constituents who can't get the services they need- or are entitled to- call their local or state representative. That kind of action can move mountains in some cases.

I'm not saying anyone has to be 'screamed at' - to use your words (and clearly- that is how you felt- or wanted to act considering the many times you wrote the word 'shit') or demean anyone. I believe you are projecting somewhat here. All I'm saying is that one has to find out what the facts of the situation are before one can do- or get- anyone to do anything.

And one last thing: you are dead wrong about certified caseworkers who know their business. A child can be taken away from his/her parents by a caseworker. It happens every day. They are NOT powerless. In fact, they can abuse their power.

Clearly: you felt the victim in your situation. I'm sorry about about that, and that you had to go through a great deal to right matters. Acknowledged. But how about let's keep some perspective on who's concern is being addressed?

Still standing my ground.

[Daniel]

1) Is the Group Home certified by the state? If they are, what policies must they abide by? If they aren't, who (and what) is letting them be in business?

2) Is the caseworker licensed? Does he/she have experience working with someone in your son's situation? (If not: get a different caseworker immediately! You may have to 'shop' to find the right social worker. Mind you: some social workers have MSW's, some do not. Whatever the social worker's trainging, the important thing is to find someone who has the experience in this area and know's how to work the system on your son's behalf. For instance: there must be more than one agency in your area, right?)

3) Who does the caseworker answer to? It is a government agency, or faithbased?

4) What agencies can be helpful to you in your area? (You may not just end up helping your son, but all the other clients at this 'home'.)

5) Is it acceptable- in your state- for clients in group homes to be carted off to church, whether they like it or not?

Please find out the facts about what is involved here. Please do not assume that the person who says they will help you will help you. Please don't rely on one person to fix this for you and your son. You may need to marshall various forces. And it may not be easy.

(Sidebar: my best friend's younger brother is schizophrenic- and has been since he was about 17. He's now 42. I know it's no picnic. It causes immense upheaval in a family. I know dealing with the 'home' may be as difficult as managing his issues. It's a double barrel to deal with: and my heart goes out to you.)

But I pray to God that you can get our kid out of there ASAP. As a parent, I believe it is in your right to direct the 'home' to not take your son to church: no explanation required, that is, if you have legal power in the situation. Do you?

U-dog is right in this sense: one uses the sugar and butter first, but when that doesn't work, you have to have the vinegar, salt and the sharp knife at the ready when the sugar and butter has been burned away.

Strategy is everything. Gotta have one.

[RedneckDyke]

Thanks everybody.Sory it took me so long to reply. I only get the computer at the library and we had that long weekend.

I don't know how qualified the caseworker is. She moved Tony (our son) to the home because it is in a more populated area and the last one was in the boonies. SHe figured it would be good for him to be in a place where there was more stuff to do. I don't know. It's good for him to have stuff to do yes, but when he gets pyschotic sympomatic sometimes it's better he'd in the boonies. There's only so far he can go if he runs off. Although i do worry during hunting season. But i worry about him in the city going somewhere and getting in trouble.

With TOny it is like a treadmill. You run and run and end up in the same place. He gets put someplace. And is ok for a while. He starts GED classes, or a work proagram, or something. Then he somehow gets off his meds and gets sent to the state hospital for a few weeks. Then he has to start all over.

His case worker works for the county. I guess this fundie group home is contracted with them or with the state. It wold be interesting to find out. I haven't been able to talk to the caseworker yet as she has been out sick but maybe I can talk to someone else. The whole system is one big runnaround. I hate that they put him is this crappy place, There's gotta be somewhere else, even in rural areas. It is so stupid because if they move him, if the home is in another county he has to go to another county system and the whole process starts over agian with new people. It sucks.
Sometimes I think he's better at the state gospital. At least they have dealt with him before. Although there are some losres there too. One time, when he was in the children's ward, some asshole zookeeper (oh sorry, "mental health tech") told him that mental illness is demon possession.

Even thinking about the whole thing makes me exhausted, My partner Anita is off in California working as a travel nurse, but she keeeps up with things. She has fought like a mother bear for years dealing with these people.

Anyway, I'll keep you possted
Amy the REdneck

[tdogg]

I"m not psychiatrist, but having a bipolar parent with 2ndary schitzophrenia, it would be prudent to stay on top of this. The last thing your son needs is to be in an environment where he is being told that gay is bad, especially if he is gay. Not a good thing.

No sense in getting mad at anyone, just demand this be addressed even if you have to go over heads. Your son's health & well-being are the priorities here. As a government worker, I understand being overworked and underpaid. However, I still have a job to do and am required and expected to do it well. I would never allow my personal beliefs to interfere in conducting my job duties or dealing with my employees.

Having a dad with severe disabilities, in and out of the hospital here and there, including nursing homes, it is imperative that you stay involved, sometimes on a daily basis. You must insist on what you feel is right, of course discussing all with medical professionals before making any rash decisions. But overall, the physical and mental health of your son is the top priority in this issue. This does not appear to be a healthy environment for your son, but you really need to get to the bottom of everything before making any decisions. Good luck, praying for you and your family.

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by RedneckDyke

SHe figured it would be good for him to be in a place where there was more stuff to do. I don't know. It's good for him to have stuff to do yes, but when he gets pyschotic sympomatic sometimes it's better he'd in the boonies. There's only so far he can go if he runs off. Although i do worry during hunting season. But i worry about him in the city going somewhere and getting in trouble.

And I think you should listen to your instincts about this. You've seen what's happened over a long period of time....you know your son's case better than anyone else, right?

Bonnies may indeed be better or the State Hospital. That said- Tdogg is right: you need the imput of more than one 'professional'.

I am so glad to hear that your partner has been a help in all of this: it really is exhausting and traumatizing to deal with this kind of thing. I've seen this up close with my friend who's brother has your son's condition. The family members of anyone with mental illness suffer too. It's hard stuff: and my heart goes out to you.

(Sidebar: I know this illness can take strange forms.....for instance....my friend is in charge of his brother's care. He can't send him more than a certain amount of money or he will give it away. And I bet you know what I'm talking about here. Whether it is money or stimulation.......what I hear from you is that your son's environment needs to be carefully managed.....controlled if you will...even though that may look like a 'lack' of stimulation to someone else. THAT's why I asked if the caseworker was up on her game. She may be good in many areas, but as far as your son's condition? She may not be educated in that area. You may have to educate her.)

[RedneckDyke]

Originally Posted by Daniel

And I think you should listen to your instincts about this. You've seen what's happened over a long period of time....you know your son's case better than anyone else, right?

Bonnies may indeed be better or the State Hospital. That said- Tdogg is right: you need the imput of more than one 'professional'.

I am so glad to hear that your partner has been a help in all of this: it really is exhausting and traumatizing to deal with this kind of thing. I've seen this up close with my friend who's brother has your son's condition. The family members of anyone with mental illness suffer too. It's hard stuff: and my heart goes out to you.

Technically, I try to be a help to her. She adopted the kids and has had Tony since he was a year old. I've been around for the last nine years. Anita has always fought for all the kids. She is the toughest person I know.

(Sidebar: I know this illness can take strange forms.....for instance....my friend is in charge of his brother's care. He can't send him more than a certain amount of money or he will give it away. And I bet you know what I'm talking about here. Whether it is money or stimulation.......what I hear from you is that your son's environment needs to be carefully managed.....controlled if you will...even though that may look like a 'lack' of stimulation to someone else.

Yep, Yep, Tony has to have someone on top hi mall the time or he won't take his meds. The he gets symptomatic and thinks he is an international spy and wants to run off on missions. Plus, he can get violent.

THAT's why I asked if the caseworker was up on her game. She may be good in many areas, but as far as your son's condition? She may not be educated in that area. You may have to educate her.)

Yep, got to educate these people. It is so frustration. We have to tell the same stuff to every new person. Even though he has reams of paper in his file.