Lookin' for some guidance

[EmmaMaroon]

..........

[Gregory_de_Bois]

I've always felt that homosexuality was not part of God's "plan" for sexuality.

I cannot say why you feel this way, as I am clearly not you, but I can speak of my own expereince. I used to feel the same way until I had to come to terms with who I was and who God wanted me to be. At first I prayed that God would take it away, but over time I found that this wasn't something to be ashamed of. I began reading the arguments starting with Mel White's Stranger at the Gate. That book really showed me the experience of those who HAVE tried to get rid of their sexuality, to change who they were. It forced me to look at who I wanted to be, but really it forced me to consider what (and where) Christ wanted me to be. I still had my doubts, but with continual prayer, meditation, and studying (as well as the comfort and support of friends both in the real world and here on SoulForce) I grew into who I am today. I am 100% certain that being gay is what God wants me to be. We each have to carve out our own paths, but the paths of others who have gone before us certainly help. And what is most important is following the Love of Christ.

I have no problem with the lifestyle apart when it's lived by non-Christians.

Why this dual standard if you find the arguments against homosexuality unconvincing?

Am I lesbian? Is God OK with that?

To the first question, only you can really know. There are such things as girl-crushes, but ultimately only you can distinguish these feelings. Consider your past experiences: Have you ever had similar crushes before? have you felt the same way towards a man? Whether you are straight, or gay, or even bisexual (?) God loves you. Always, Always, Always remember this. Don't act rashly, but don't live in the dark. Meditate upon the Scriptures and live a life of Love. Perfect Love casts out all fear. We'll be here for you, and I know you have friends (from what you have described) that will be there for you.

Philosophically, it seems that the arguments for homosexuality being OK are weak.

Having buried myself in this literature (both for and against) all of last year and much of last summer, I have found that the problem is not in the arguments but in the way they are argued and/or laid out. Because there are so many different arguments AGAINST it (all of which are based upon poor assumptions) there are even more FOR it. Due to this diversity of opinions, the arguments and facts are taken for granted and and often disorganized. There are so many different approaches a pro-gay theologian can take, just as there are for any issue one takes up, that it is daunting. Really consider what has been said. Tradition is often invoked to go against it, but documents (Common Prayer Books from the 2nd to the 17th centuries) that have been ignored for centuries are finally being studied, and what we are finding is far from ignorable. John Boswell does a masterful job outlining the history of Same-Sex Unions in Premodern Europe (the title of the book), I highly suggest it (though it is a tough read).

Namaste,

GSK

[Zerbie]

Emma, may I offer some hugs?

I just spent a long time typing a reply to you which then disappeared, and I'm in the process of falling asleep at the computer right now, so re-creating a more substantial reply will have to wait til another day.

Meanwhile, be assured you've found a wonderful place to ask your questions and get feedback from people with a wide range of backgrounds. This is a caring bunch.

If I might be so bold as to suggest: just allow yourself to enjoy the experience of falling in love. It is the most wonderful, exciting feeling in the world. Consider letting yourself enjoy it without judgment.

I'm sure other folk will be along soon with more substantial responses, too.

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by EmmaMaroon

Short story: I'm a strong Christian, love Christ, philosophy major with a passion for writing and learning. Although I'm not part of the conservative Christian political movement and identify myself as more liberal on social and economic issues, and although I'm not a literalist when it comes to Biblical interpretation, I've always felt that homosexuality was not part of God's "plan" for sexuality. I have a ton of lesbian and gay friends, being at a state school, and I have no problem with the lifestyle apart when it's lived by non-Christians.

I feel compelled to ask "why". Why do you feel that being GLBT isn't part of God's plan? What is it that makes you feel that way?

Forgive me, but "not part of God's plan" sounds like it's someone else's words that you're regurgitating. Put reason and faith to the task and flesh it out - that's the only way to have this kind of discussion.

By the way, ditto on being a strong Christian and loving Christ - it's just that I can't reach the same conclusion that you have. As to the reference to "lifestyle" - we're not talking about a lifestyle, but an identity. Someone's very being cannot be dismissed as a choice like which car to drive or what to eat tonight. It's insulting in the least. I have another question about this, but see below.

Well, long and short of it is that I find myself waist deep in a hard-core lesbian crush. Well, it's more than a crush. If it was a guy I would say that I was in love. I feel in love. I want to be around her - she's funny and talented and interesting, and I feel like she grows me in ways that no one has ever done. Plus, I'm pretty strongly sexually attracted to her. When she comes into the room it's like the temp goes up 12 degrees. I can't ignore her when she's around - as cheesy as it is, when she comes in she's "all that I see". (Yes, it's lame. But yes, that's just how it is.)

Not lame in the least - that's how I feel about my wife. Why would it be lame if I felt that way about a husband or boyfriend instead? Because someone else said so?

So, let me ask you what choice you made to feel this about a woman? Did you say, "Ooh, I feel like being in a relationship that would not be God's plan?" Did you say, "Right! I think I'll put myself in a situation that my Christian friends will find abominable?" What choice did you make that made you feel this way?

I would venture that you cannot point to a decision - and that is because how you feel about someone is not a lifestyle choice. You could choose to not actually act on the love that you feel - that would be a choice - but wouldn't that choice be inauthentic?

Honestly... I'm really confused. I've never had a homosexual crush or love interest before, and honestly... I still feel like this must be wrong, and I've believed that it's wrong for so long that I'm not sure what to do. Am I lesbian? Is God OK with that? Philosophically, it seems that the arguments for homosexuality being OK are weak. But... I have to confront them now, I guess.

I just didn't know where to go - none of my friends know, including her - I just feel so confused. So, so confused. I guess that I need prayed for wisdom here. That's all. And all the other Christian-gay-help sites are pretty crappy and full of lame Scripture. I just want to know what's true and what's right and I feel so lost.

Some very smart educator, whose name escapes me at this moment, said that the impediment to new knowledge is not ignorance, but prior learning. Your statement that "I've believed that it's wrong for so long that I'm not sure what to do" is quite telling, don't you think? If you had not been taught that is was not okay, would you feel conflicted? Could it be that you are in cognitive dissonance - that you are caught in the double bind of present feelings combatting previous learned attitudes? Why assume that the current feelings are what's wrong - what is the logic of this opinion?

Again, flesh out which philosophical arguments you feel are weak. It's a little hard to discuss what you haven't revealed. I, personally, don't know of any strong philosophical arguments that say that being GLBT is wrong - just misinformed religious ones.

I hope I haven't sounded testy - that's not my intent. It sounds as though you are a fairly heady person, and so I am suggesting that you allow us to wrestle through with you some of the things that are in your head. Believe me, you are not the first or last to feel this way. Let's talk.

(Rev) Andy

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by EmmaMaroon

would say that I was in love. I feel in love. I want to be around her - she's funny and talented and interesting, and I feel like she grows me in ways that no one has ever done. Plus, I'm pretty strongly sexually attracted to her. When she comes into the room it's like the temp goes up 12 degrees. I can't ignore her when she's around - as cheesy as it is, when she comes in she's "all that I see". (Yes, it's lame. But yes, that's just how it is.)
...........................................I feel so lost.

And revel in the feeling!!!! Lost because you are letting go of bonds that impede love from springing!!!!!! From an outsider's persective that sounds extremely Christ-like to me. Christ's most noble lesson is how to feel love.

Is that not what you are doing? Is it because it a way of feeling love that is unfamiliar to what you were taught that makes it difficult to understand? Don't you think Christ wants you to express your feeling of love?

If love makes you come alive it must be right and holy! There is another woman who needs you. God gave you attraction to women so you can find her! Follow His design for you and the joy you feel will make him smile. Like a parent watching a child open a gift on Christmas!

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by EmmaMaroon

I've always felt that homosexuality was not part of God's "plan" for sexuality.

God's Plan:

He made the mountains to be strong, but sometimes they can fall down.
He made the birds to sing, but sometimes their song is silent.
He made the sky to be blue, but sometimes it grows cloudy.
He made the sun to make us warm, but sometimes it is eclipsed.
He made you to be loved.

However He intends to do it, I don't know, but He does have quite the imagination now, doesn't He? So let yourself be loved, because that is part of God's plan.

[Jennifer5]

I don't really know what to add to what others have already stated... but I go agree specifically on one very important point...

Do NOT let love go, enjoy your feelings, loving another person is a wonderful thing! You may not know what that's going to mean in this friendship or relationship right now, but one thing that you do know is that you love her in some special way!

(((((hugs)))))

[EmmaMaroon]

..........

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by EmmaMaroon

What if I think that it's sin, it's wrong? And if I pursue it, even thinking that it's sin... "that thing is sin to me"? I don't know if I can ever get over this thing inside me that is telling me that this is Wrong... and if I can't, shouldn't I not pursue it because I'm pursuing it against my "conscience" even if I'm just overly sensative and, according to Paul, just don't have enough faith for it, kind of like eating meat or having a holy day?.

One of the most difficult internal struggles Gay folks face is the letting go of self judgement. Fear of eternal Damnation for living true to one's nature is a common conflict.

I have found that fear-based decisions should be avoided because choices based on fear have had disasterous results for me.

Look for sources of affirmation of your gay soul's entitlement to live the joy of loving true to your nature.

I'm not a Christian so I don't know the Christian resouces that you are seekin to connect with your sensibility, but the folks here sure do!

Guys any suggestions?

[Gregory_de_Bois]

Originally Posted by EmmaMaroon

Hey guys - thanks for the encouraging words and responses. I'm reading some of the stuff on the Soulforce website about homosexuality and mentally sifting through it. Some of it makes sense, some of it doesn't, I'm working it out.

I guess that this is the question that I'm wondering about now - isn't this sort of like the meat sacrificed to idols thing? What if I think that it's sin, it's wrong? And if I pursue it, even thinking that it's sin... "that thing is sin to me"? I don't know if I can ever get over this thing inside me that is telling me that this is Wrong... and if I can't, shouldn't I not pursue it because I'm pursuing it against my "conscience" even if I'm just overly sensative and, according to Paul, just don't have enough faith for it, kind of like eating meat or having a holy day? What if I can be intellectually convinced that something is OK but can't get over the emotional reaction that it's not - isn't it sin, then, for me, even if it's not Sin?

Again, thanks for the responses. I just feel like there's no one to talk to about it... all my friends are either gay and non-Christian, so no help there, or straight and Christian, so no help there, either.

One of my spiritual mentors told me once that anything not done in faith is sin. I think I couldn't agree more. As to your question, I think you need to consider why you feel this way. Scott is right, we (that is us queer folk) tend to have a tough time with self-judgement, especially if we were brought up in a religious home or a culture that is not affirming. We get so used to hatred (or even just denial) that we deny not the "Old Man" that St. Paul speaks of, but the Divine Fingerprint on our souls. We lose contact with the Light Within and fall into a state of darkness (though not damning darkness). This can lead to despair, fear, and even self-hatred. You've already taken a huge step towards self-acceptance, so don't worry. Rest in God's Presence. Remember what Christ taught. And, As Julian of Norwich said, "All shall be well. All shall be well. And all manner of things shall be well." Christ is Triumphant. Alleluia!