Loving the Idea of someone...

[paul]

Yes, Jen, it makes sense. (I do think Paul is talking of a different thing - people who love their idea of who a person in their life is, but never see the real person. Is that it, Paul?)

Yes, that's it Zerb.

No need to apologize to me Jennifer, I was musing out loud, which is not always very clear. For me, it's a challenge...part of living, which to me means living in the moment. Looking to "see" what really is. For me, "idea" is just one letter short of "ideal." Looking for an ideal, in my mind, can easily turn into projection of myself onto another person (I'm not saying you are doing this, I am musing about the words).

On the other hand, there are times when you encounter a person and it's like you mesh at a subatomic level...and oh gee I'm getting ethereal . Probably not what you were looking into at all.

[Jennifer5]

I'm sorry... this response is going to have to be shorter then the one I had written before...

But so that we're clear Daniel, at least on my end, there are absolutely no hard feelings about anything! I love you and everything you just said has helped me to feel much better about things.


...mom's home and it's getting late, so I will reply in the morning, but I thought it was very important to at least make that one point very clear!

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Jennifer5

But so that we're clear Daniel, at least on my end, there are absolutely no hard feelings about anything! I love you and everything you just said has helped me to feel much better about things.

The universe has a wonderful of having things show up when we really need them- that's what I think anyway.

Your man- father- ideal- idea.....is......waiting for you somewhere.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Jen,

(apologies for the deviation of your name)

When I was a senior in high school, I went with a boyhood friend of mine to visit his aunt and uncle in Boston, where, I came into contact with two of their friends: a gay couple. No one told me they were gay. But I fairly levitated when they were in the room- and in retrospect- one of the guys- I believe- perceived that I was gay. Not a word was spoken.

Why do I tell this story? Because it was some years later before I got what I wanted- a relationship like the one I saw. But boy- did it set off all kinds of ringy dingy stuff in my head and heart: I wanted what I felt that those two guys had.

Thank you for sharing! You do understand the feeling then!

[Jennifer5]

Whatever you are looking for, be it a male presence in your life, which would bring with it a certain kind of nurturing that is all its own, or something else, the first step is knowing what (or as Vanessa pointed out- who) you want. My post was set up to give you a tool find that out (which Zerbie pointed out). Of course, there are others ways to go about this.

For what it's worth, men tend to look for 'solutions' to problems, while women's brains take something (and rightly so) a different route. That's the difference- as I see it in the sexes. There really is something to that Mars & Venus stuff. Men tend to go from point A to point B directly. Women can take a more circuitous route, but do end up at B- they just get there differently. Neither way is better or worse- they are just different. It may be the literal difference of the male and female brain: women have more connective tissue connecting the hemisphere's. One could make a case that women have something of an advantage: they get from A to B with a lot more stuff.

This is true… women make things far more complicated, but we usually make sense to each other .

But I think there is something else mixed up in here....

You initially experienced my 'how to' answer in a negative way. And that interests me for this reason: your own negative experience with your father.

Do you see where I'm going here?

Perhaps- you are looking for a male energy that faciltates the healing of those old wounds. There was something about the way I said- what I said- that triggered you. That's something to look at and work out: ie working out that feeling of being judged. Or to put it another way: you may want the experience of being valued and validated by a male presence.

My reaction towards you definitely has a lot to do with my own negative experience, not only with my father, but with everyone he ever speaks to. He “poisoned the well”, around the time of the divorce we all walked around in complete fear. We felt betrayed by almost everyone we used to know. We were literally hiding behind corners when we would see people from the church. There were a couple years where we all really struggled to stay here; we wanted to stay, but life had become very hard, if we hadn’t gotten the house we definitely would’ve left… and sometimes it still feels like that would’ve been the better choice. We lived in fear. I became used to the idea that I couldn’t trust hardly anyone; there was ONE person that probably is responsible for me not losing faith in people during this process. There was one person outside of the family that I leaned on in a huge way during that time. He’s the same person who introduced me to Mel and Gary, a.k.a. Soulforce.

I didn’t want to voice how I took your words, but I did partially because it IS important for me to clarify that you didn’t mean what I ‘read’. It’s important to not leave feeling how I did about what you wrote especially since I was aware that I was probably taking things the wrong way. It’s better to clear things up, then to walk away feeling bothing by them for no reason at all.

Important stuff. And as I gay man I can identify with that feeling intensely.

As I see it, this is one of the primary functions of intimate relationships. We get to work our old stuff out in 3D with another person. Those relationships need not be romantic however, but there does have to be a level of trust involved.

True... and the interesting thing, is that despite everything, I trust pretty easily. But I remain cautious, it's much easier to break that trust, and I think it's a lot easier to feel betrayed when someone does break that trust.

Originally Posted by Daniel

I think all you need do is keep your eyes open. Heck- you could even ask for what you want- have you thought of that? There may be an organization in your area where you are set up with a mentor. Some guy who is nuturing but also challenging. Brings out the best in you.

It's a good idea... but mentor type things aren't something I'm comfortable with. I don't really know why... more of that fear based stuff I guess...

Now- see what I've done? Generated another 'solution'. That's what guys do. We like to fix things- cars for instance. Though in my case, it's curtains.

You certainly did.



Really, I think all that my family has gone through, has been better in the end. I think that especially for my sister and I, in the long run, this will be a very good thing. We know that there are certain ways that men will treat women that are completely unacceptable, and we don’t just know it, but we’ve done our best to walk away from it (although it is different when it husband/wife relationship and father/daughter relationship).

Through the divorce, I’ve been able to stand much more strongly for what I think is right and wrong. I’m no longer ok with standing around and seeing something that is effecting someone’s life in a bad way and say ‘someone else will take care of it’, I stand for what I believe in. But it does leave me also wanted a strong male figure in my life. Not even just in my life though, in my mom’s. She’s been working probably 50+ hours a week lately, and stresses over paying the bills still, in the world we live in, you have to have two incomes to support a home; she’s on her own. There are certain guys, that when they’re at the house and helping out, you can see her relax, because she knows that not everything is on her shoulders anymore, they’re people she can trust.

[Jennifer5]

Originally Posted by paul

Yes, that's it Zerb.

No need to apologize to me Jennifer, I was musing out loud, which is not always very clear. For me, it's a challenge...part of living, which to me means living in the moment. Looking to "see" what really is. For me, "idea" is just one letter short of "ideal." Looking for an ideal, in my mind, can easily turn into projection of myself onto another person (I'm not saying you are doing this, I am musing about the words).

On the other hand, there are times when you encounter a person and it's like you mesh at a subatomic level...and oh gee I'm getting ethereal . Probably not what you were looking into at all.

It's fine! You can continue, she you're saying I think does actually make sense here.

[Jennifer5]

Thank you.

I got in contact with an old family friend that I adore... just started talking to him again, even though with schedules and everything with school, I probably won't see him, it's good to talk to him.

...and I guess my words began to get to my mom again, she's giving one guy that she had dated for a while another chance! We all really liked him, he fit in really well with the family. Even if it doesn't work out, we all need to know that there isn't anything there.


Daniel, thank you specifically for this...

Heck- you could even ask for what you want- have you thought of that?