Born gay? new study

[u-dog]

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[tymejumper]

I have a friend, who is one of 5 children. All but her sister are gay. That's 3 gay brothers, and one lesbian and one straight. She says she has bad genes, but I tell her they are EXTRAORDINARY genes! How on earth would all turn out gay except the one sister, if genes were not involved?

[Alecto]

Am I the only one that cringes a little at all of these studies? No matter what the result, I think the whole thing is a giant red herring and that it truly doesn't (or depending on semantics, shouldn't) matter.

[paul]

Originally Posted by Alecto

Am I the only one that cringes a little at all of these studies? No matter what the result, I think the whole thing is a giant red herring and that it truly doesn't (or depending on semantics, shouldn't) matter.

Hi Alecto,

Yep, I cringe too. Why is it they always site things like playing with dolls as the true sign of childhoold gayness? Okay, I had a doll as a wee one, and did play house. But I also played trucks and army. I did have a funny memory after reading this post, my dolls name was "Butch."

[Vanessa White]

That was a telltale sign right there......

I agree Paul; the tendency to quote parents who state that they "knew" their child was gay, because he played with dolls, seemed effeminate, etc. Those generalizing statements just floor me; that is a form of gender expression, not an indication of future sexual orientation. And, even as a form of gender expression, that is based on societal expectations of what "proper" gender expression is.

Our daughter loves dancing in her various dance classes, but her favorite things to do is be outdoors, get dirty, play in the woods, shoot arrows, dig holes, and build things.....

We have no thoughts that that means ANYTHING in relation to sexual orientation.

We have much work to do......

[Unmasked]

Some think that this behavior *turns* kids gay. I smell a whole mess of fundamental bs brewing.

I've always felt more comfortable with females. I always had female friends growing up. I generally preferred girl's games, except for Mother, May I, which was stupid and unfair. Your progress depended on how the person at the front was feeling that day, and half the time you'd get the stupid b*tch who said no to every request, and sometimes decided that you needed to take steps backwards. That's what America is. A big game of Mother, May I. Our tormentors are always at the center, making sure that we never advance, and that their successors will do the same...

Mmm...do I sound a bit cynical? Must be the cold talking.

[paul]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

That was a telltale sign right there......

I agree Paul; the tendency to quote parents who state that they "knew" their child was gay, because he played with dolls, seemed effeminate, etc. Those generalizing statements just floor me; that is a form of gender expression, not an indication of future sexual orientation. And, even as a form of gender expression, that is based on societal expectations of what "proper" gender expression is.

Our daughter loves dancing in her various dance classes, but her favorite things to do is be outdoors, get dirty, play in the woods, shoot arrows, dig holes, and build things.....

We have no thoughts that that means ANYTHING in relation to sexual orientation.

We have much work to do......

Hi Vanessa,

Yeah, funny thing about "Butch...." "Here's your sign."

We do have much work to do. We all seem to profile, default to common denomenators vs. paying attention and listening, 'knowing' the individual. It takes more energy to pay attention vs. going with the labels. I wonder how a kid would turn out if they weren't given constant cues about their behavior (as regards "male and female").

Sounds like your daughter is being given a safe environment to be her self, which is exactly what a family does for one of it's members, imo, affirming a sense of value=love.paul

[tpdncr4christ]

I don't think parents mean to generalize, or use nonspecific statements when they are talking about how they knew their child was gay. I think that a parents intuition about their child is really rather strong, and most often correct, they just don't know how they know that their child is gay, so they contribute it to obvious behaviors. What makes a gay boy different from a straight boy? Not much seeing as there is no sexual attraction at that time, but there still are some observable differences. It's listing those differences that becomes difficult.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by tpdncr4christ

I don't think parents mean to generalize, or use nonspecific statements when they are talking about how they knew their child was gay. I think that a parents intuition about their child is really rather strong, and most often correct, they just don't know how they know that their child is gay, so they contribute it to obvious behaviors. What makes a gay boy different from a straight boy? Not much seeing as there is no sexual attraction at that time, but there still are some observable differences. It's listing those differences that becomes difficult.

perhaps the attraction isn't sexual, but I would say there is an attraction. Not too long ago I witnessed some 1st grade boys in my class sitting very close, arms around each other, etc. I let them go, thinking that this is about the only time they can get away with that! One of the boys kept getting closer to the other, looking into his face, it almost looked like he was whispering into his ear and about to kiss him. at some point, I had to bring their attention back to what we were doing. I had a hard time doing that because I didn't want attention to be drawn to them, and truthfully, didn't want to discourage them if that was indeed the beginning of recognizing their own orientations.

[Alecto]

Honestly? I cringe at the studies on both sides of the fence. I feel like we've all got way too much invested as to the causes of sexual orientation. If we find out that it's TOTALLY environmental ALL the time, what does that mean? You still can't untoast the bread, and even if you could, that still doesn't mean that there's any reason TO allow for institutional discrimination.

[paul]

Originally Posted by Alecto

Honestly? I cringe at the studies on both sides of the fence. I feel like we've all got way too much invested as to the causes of sexual orientation. If we find out that it's TOTALLY environmental ALL the time, what does that mean? You still can't untoast the bread, and even if you could, that still doesn't mean that there's any reason TO allow for institutional discrimination.

Alecto,

I'm not sure we are on the same page with this, but I think we are in the same chapter. To me, it all comes down to the motive behind the study. If it's simple science to discover what makes us tick because of a love of knowledge, I'm onboard. Problem is, science is rarely "simple," eh? So many of these studies are efforts to legitimize or debunk belief.

There will always be people who will retain their beliefs regardless of the evidence to the contrary. It is those people who believe that you can "untoast" the bread (can you say "Exodus"). Ultimately though, I think studies that are truly scientific end up benefiting society at large. Few people still believe the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth. It took a few generations for the majority to shift into reality, but it did happen eventually. Perhaps we are on the cusp of the age of enlightenment as regards things GLBT?

[Gregory_de_Bois]

I'm more worried that if they do find a "gay gene", which I don't believe is the sole contributor to sexual orientation, then some will try and create a "patch" or some other "cure". Kind of like in X-men. But, like others here, I don't need science to prove what I already know, although it might help some of the "unbelievers", if you will.

[TigerXero]

To be vague and not reference any studies, but including that there have been a number of highly respected individuals in the field of the biological basis of homosexuality that have come to my school to talk, the studies we have right now don't point at all to it being only genetic. Genes do seem to affect it (as there is about double the probability of as sibling being gay if the other one is for genetically identical twins versus fraternal {am I using the term right?} although there was only a 50% correlation for the study I saw), but pre-natal hormones also play a big role in it, notably for brain development, which obviously a very complex process as you might imagine There have been studies I know at least mice which show sexual preference of the animal can be completely manipulated by the use of modifying the hormon levels of the fetus during development. Also, consider the fetuses for twins don't receive equal amounts of nutrients and chemicals from the mother and the fact that twins can often be quite different in personality or appearence, it's easy to see why genetics wouldn't be a sole factor. These two things being said (and there are plenty of other studies), it's safe, as far as I'm considered, to say that there are a combination of factors that seem to determine sexual orientation in humans. I also just want to note I've really over simplified all the research and studies that have been done concerning this issue, but these are just two to make a certain point.

[kimmyd]

I firmly believe that we are born predisposed one way or the other. Have seen FAR too much evidence to ignor that. But I also believe one can be born straight, and later on in life prefer the same sex. From their upbringing (I believe having two same-sex parents is healthy and nurturing and should be encouraged) to what they see around them to maybe nothing more than things changing inside.

Myself, I knew what I was from my earliest memories: I like women (I am one). But, I also like men. It's always been that way for me. But the older I get, the more I prefer women.

That said, I think people should not try in any way to change what they feel/prefer. EVER. Celebrate what you are. Don't try to restrict yourself due to guilt implanted by others or fear of what others might think. You owe it to YOURSELF to be what you need to, in order to be happy.

Does that make sense? I hope so.

[kimmyd]

Originally Posted by Alecto

Honestly? I cringe at the studies on both sides of the fence. I feel like we've all got way too much invested as to the causes of sexual orientation. If we find out that it's TOTALLY environmental ALL the time, what does that mean? You still can't untoast the bread, and even if you could, that still doesn't mean that there's any reason TO allow for institutional discrimination.

Okay, I'll ask: what the heck does 'untoast the bread' mean????

[sailaway58]

I don't know what to think about this because people see what they want. I think it is wrong to have to use the Bible to prove it is okay to be gay. But if you want to follow Christ and are Gay then certain scriptural answers have to be addressed.
"We love you but God didn't make you this way cause he mad Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve "
Excuse me while I VOMIT.
I just want to say, Hey, DUMB ASS, gay people exist!
Science would be a great tool but then the fundi's will want to fix the gene or say it is the result of the fall of man and you must not give into your carnal nature.
We need moral GLBT people portrayed in our media and more straight affirming Christians to take a stand no matter the cost.
I can see the debate now, (from Southern Baptist view).
Gay man: "See, I told you I was born that way, I am who I am, God made me!"
Baptist, "You are a preconditioned abomination to God because of the fall of man, REPENT, and pray God has mercy on your queer soul!"

[kimmyd]

Originally Posted by u-dog

It means that gay people are gay regardless of how we got that way and they are not going to get "ungayed" any more than bread that has been toasted is going to become untoasted bread again.

OH!

Thanks.

[tymejumper]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Hmmm.... perhaps you are right Igor <furls his brow and rubs his hands together diabolically> We'll just have to proceed then with the <dundundun> HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA!

No Doctor! not the .... <dundundun> HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA??? Surely!

I'm afraid so my dear... By this time next week all of the Southern Baptists will either be converted to homosexuality or ... <draws two fingers across his throat>

Gasp!

*tears rolling down cheeks*
I told my wife I didn't know what the homosexual agenda actually was, so she informed me I was here by thrown out of the lesbian sisterhood and my card carrying lesbian status was now revoked!

[sailaway58]

Originally Posted by tymejumper

*tears rolling down cheeks*
I told my wife I didn't know what the homosexual agenda actually was, so she informed me I was here by thrown out of the lesbian sisterhood and my card carrying lesbian status was now revoked!

If you recruit 3 new lesbians by the end of the month you will receive a brand new softball glove, for the guys this month there is very nice toaster oven.
Remember, May starts a new recruiting session and any you have recruited so far this year will not carry over!

[sailaway58]

It's just not the way I roll, I never got into the pyramid marketing thing.