Harassment, a Circus and Lies

[Venari]

All I have to say is wow.

Honestly how the Equality Riders conducted them selves is less then pathetic. Many students felt harasses and threatened. Namely this is though the antics of not allowing students to enter the school. Ok this is not only where they have class but where they live; their “homes” are there. I am sorry but today was just a sad day.

Then David Coleman, "Afraid to go to classes for fear of an ex-boyfriend." Well, the person he claims was his boyfriend denies any relationship. But importantly this other young man dropped from classes early Feburary,05, when he was critically injured in a car accident. Before then David approached the school as a way to get him back for ending their friendship. David accused this young man of going to take his life, something he was nearly dismissed for a few years back. So who was harassing who?

I am sorry but after seeing my fellow students harassed and seeing a person I know to be a loving and caring person be cruelly slandered I am going to take some time off here and re-evaluate what I think of Soulforce. At this time I am straining to think of anything good I can say.

I thank all of you for the welcome you have given me and I am sorry for my tone here but seriously I have seen a lot of students hurt today. Please feel free to send me an e-mail though the site here if there is anything you want to say to me, as I do not know how long it will be before I check back again.

-Venari

[pixeltarian]

I think if they wouldn't have blocked the doors, many many minds would have been changed, at least about basic civil rights. It seemed like SF was trying to get a reaction instead of trying to inform... many students I talked to liked what was happening, and then changed their minds when they saw people fighting for access to doors to their houses...

[Zerbie]

This is the SECOND time I've read today that the Riders are blocking access to classrooms!

Is this indeed what they are doing? if so, frankly, it is stupid.

The mission they are on is beautiful and potentially incredibly powerful. But it is common sense that if you obstruct someone who is innocently going to class on campus, that is completely inappropriate behavior. Soulforce needs to seriously re-evaluate their tactics.

I think perhaps the Ride is being too long. Or over-shooting.

If this happened today on my campus, *I* would be pissed off at the Riders. Yes, I would. And most or all of ya know how strongly I advocate for our causes. But blocking doors is inappropriate at best. I personally would find it threatening. I once had my path on a sidewalk blocked by someone recruiting membership for Amnesty International - which I was then planning to join. based on that one person's action, I changed my mind. It left the taste in my mouth that Amnesty was an aggression, threatening, nasty bunch of people who I had no wish to associate with.

Why would the Riders be perceived much differently if this is what they do?

I am feeling pretty angry too. I don't want to lose Venari - he raises important issues that no one else does. I hope he will come back.

[Joe Brummer]

I think we need to hear from one of the riders to clarify we have all the facts here. No offense to Vernari, but we need to collect information first. Remember the steps of nonviolence. Step 1) Gather information.


Can we hear from a rider about this claim and have both sides of this story?

[Venari]

http://www.kare11.com/video/player.aspx?aid=25675&bw=

http://www.kare11.com/video/player.a...sid=123213&bw=

Joe,

Here you go you can see some of what I saw today.

-Venari

[Joe Brummer]

I have watched the videos and what I can say is Venari, Have you ever read about the lunch counter sit-in's in the South? The business owners were out out by the loss of revenues they lost during the protests. The crowds were confused by the ongoings not knowing what would happen. Of course we know now what happen. It worked. Nonviolence worked. It caused the right amount of tension to bring the issues to light.

I understand you are dismayed by these tactics, and I agree with the idea that SoulForce needs to teach nonviolence to more people before engaging in these tactics. I can say from watching this video that the Riders were completely nonviolent. No one seemed afraid. No one seem threatened. It would appear that if someone took the doors by force, the Riders would still have refused to leave, but those wishing to get in, could have.

No one was left in danger. No one was threatened.


It was a perfect nonviolent action. I would suggest you read about the 6 most important nonviolent actions. In no particluar order.

The Montgomery Bus Boycotts
The lunch Counter sit ins
The Salt march
Selma 1965, the Edmond Pettus Bridge
The Freedom Rides of 1961
The boycotts of 1963 in Birmingham



Stop, look and listen. It isn't the eqaulity riders you should be afraid of, it is the underlying reasons they are there in the first place. Don't be scared of what the Riders are doing, Don't criticize what the Riders are doing, look to the reasons they are there in the first place.

I have been very critical of Soulforce lately, and at one point I wanted to start a Soulforce Chapter. I try to be open minded, but from what i have seen on the clips you have provided, I think SoulForce is doing what they have to do to create the tension that forces the world to address the issues.

These tactics worked in the past in the campaigns i mentioned. Trust me when I say, your fear of Soulforce is more a fear of the underlying circumstances.

I will leave you with the words of Dr. King, from the letter from the Birmingha Jail:

You deplore the demonstrations taking place In Birmingham [the Equality Ride]. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations. I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes. It is unfortunate that demonstrations are taking place in [these colleges] Birmingham, but it is even more unfortunate that the city's white [religious] power structure left the [GAY] Negro community with no alternative.

In any nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of the facts to determine whether injustices exist; negotiation; self-purification; and direct action. We have gone through an these steps in Birmingham. There can be no gainsaying the fact that racial injustice engulfs this community. Birmingham is probably the most thoroughly segregated city in the United States. Its ugly record of brutality is widely known. Negroes have experienced grossly unjust treatment in the courts. There have been more unsolved bombings of Negro homes and churches in Birmingham than in any other city in the nation. These are the hard, brutal facts of the case. On the basis of these conditions, Negro leaders sought to negotiate with the city fathers. But the latter consistently refused to engage in good-faith negotiation.

[Zerbie]

I wish I could see the videos. They didn't load properly on the computer and the browser crashed. Is that a Mac incompatibility thing?

If I could see the video, I would have a far better idea what we're talking about. My gut reaction is still that if the Riders came to my campus today and I couldn't get to class because of them, I would be incredibly angry with the Riders and with Soulforce. I would be very turned off. And I say that as a passionate advocate for the LGBT community. So I am hesitant to jump along with Joe on this point. Why should tuition-paying students by denied their classes, even for a day, by any outside group with an agenda?

I still don't know.

[Joe Brummer]

I have two points to make:

1) We are all part of the beloved community. There are no real outsiders or insiders, we are all part of one humanity. What affects one of us, effects all of us.

2) Why should a tuition paying student be kicked to the curb for being a "sinner" when other sinners get to stay? Why does the university get to judge our sins, when Christ clearly asked us not to judge.

[vaguy78]

So, before I watched the clips, I expected things to be at it's worse. I thought it was gonna be something very robust and in a lot of ways shameful but I really didnt' see anything wrong with the protest.

yeah they blocked doors, but I don't see how people could feel scared or threatened by what the protestors did. I think sometimes we over exaggerate things when in our heart we want things to be portrayed a particular way, even if the truth speaks otherwise.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Joe Brummer

2) Why should a tuition paying student be kicked to the curb for being a "sinner" when other sinners get to stay? Why does the university get to judge our sins, when Christ clearly asked us not to judge.

No kidding. That's exactly the point. So you are now saying that because university policy effectively does that to some students, everyone should be deprived in some way to make a point?? I'm not with ya.

Joe - I'm not talking about the big picture and the overall meaning here, I'm talking (and mostly asking, I think) about the specifics of this individual incident today. In which case, the word "outsiders" does apply.

Now having read two reactions to the video I'm even more frustrated that I can't get it to load on this computer, b/c I'm quite confused now as to what happened.

DID the Riders block a door (doors) or not? WERE students able to get to their class or not? If they were, did they have to have a verbal altercation to get in the building?


Okay, tech gurus: editing this post to ask, any suggestions about viewing those videos? The browser just died again when I tried to view them. I'm using a Mac and browsing with Safari. I have Firefox, should I try that?

[pixeltarian]

you can protest any way you'd like as long as no one get's scared or threatened?

how about just talking to students like they were in the begining? to bring about a change in someones heart and/or mind you need to show you care about them. Just talking to someone I learned a lot about how many basic civil rights need to be established. as soon as I saw people fighting to get in and out it made me think it wasn't about informing me, but about provoking the school so SF could get some media sob story. It's the same as witnessing. if I want someone to listen to the gospel, I don't block all the doors on a college campus. I do as much as I can. I don't piss people off... which many were. one girl came to me and some friends crying when she realised that her reaching out and taking with SF was pointless because it wasn't about dialog, but making a scene...

[pixeltarian]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

DID the Riders block a door (doors) or not? WERE students able to get to their class or not? If they were, did they have to have a verbal altercation to get in the building?

Yes, almost all doors were blocked. nothing I could say would get me into the building, the only responce I got was "sorry this door is blocked." a police officer (I think he was, he had a badge and looked different from the security guards) was at one door and didn't allow people to sit in front of that particular one. so I had to walk through 3 buildings to get to my dorm room.

[awediot]

I absolutely believe in the message of SF, but thier target can get blurry... The videos just made the riders look petty and childish. They were just a nuisance and mostly to the ones they need on thier side...Hell, the guard was more courteous... No one learned anything good. Bad News and a step back...

[pixeltarian]

Jesus ever took an action like this, he only spoke the truth. "he who has ears let him hear." Remember that guys? in fact the only actions I remember Him taking were feeding people, talking to people, healing, casting out demons, and dying on a cross.

anyway, it's just a thought...

I was actually hurt when SF did this. It was almost like a feeling of heartbreak.

[Dash]

I understand that there is a lot of pain because of the action today, but friend, you have forgotten the time when Jesus drove out the money changers.

I was taught that the big issue in that story was that they had set up shop in the "court of the Gentiles"...the only place where a Gentile could come to worship God. That was as close as they were allowed in the temple. Jesus' act was....well you know. It was rough.

I was taught that part of the intent of that act was to return that portion of the temple grounds to a place of worship rather than business so that the Gentiles would be allowed a place in the community of God.

Again, I understand people are heartbroken over the way things played out today...I haven't sorted out all of my feelings about everything yet.

Hoping the wounds heal well.

[pixeltarian]

This is true... it totally slipped my mind. I do think that the idea does not apply to NCU becasue it's not all a temple, and the worship center is used to worship. So it's serving it's fuction well...

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

I wish I could see the videos. They didn't load properly on the computer and the browser crashed. Is that a Mac incompatibility thing?

I had the same problem..I have a Mac.

[Dash]

Originally Posted by pixeltarian

This is true... it totally slipped my mind. I do think that the idea does not apply to NCU becasue it's not all a temple, and the worship center is used to worship. So it's serving it's fuction well...

You're quite right...there are differences. Sometimes it's good to remember this unusual action by Jesus, though. I would ask....do you think there are any similarities to the aspect of denying Gentiles a place in the community of God and the denial that gtbl people face? Generally speaking...

[pixeltarian]

Originally Posted by Dash

You're quite right...there are differences. Sometimes it's good to remember this unusual action by Jesus, though. I would ask....do you think there are any similarities to the aspect of denying Gentiles a place in the community of God and the denial that gtbl people face? Generally speaking...

yep. I know people that "hate fags." actually that's what one of my good friends said to me right when he got out of the army... and my heart sank when I heard it. He is a Christian I guess, but I just was baffled at that loveless statement. So yes, that mentality exists.

Many many many churches will let anyone come and worship, it is very commonplace that they will not allow someone to speak about a accepting what they view to be a sin... in my mind, Churches that would kick you out for your orientation are missing the point.

[Venari]

Originally Posted by Joe Brummer

No one was left in danger. No one was threatened.

Joe,

Yes students were harassed and threatened. When many students attempted to enter the school they were faced with threatening postures preventing them from gaining access. That is harassment intended to intimidate another person and comes very close to violence. The sit-ins never intentionally caused people emotional distress nor did they put people directly in harms way ... what if there was a fire and people tried to escape and they were sitting in front of the doors? Hypothetical but still valid.

The actions the Equality riders too today were ones intended to harass and intimidate people and not engage in conversation. Its is the school with the policies not the students so why punish the students ... plain and simple short sightedness looking only for media attention.

Yes I am very angry that many students felt harassed and it is a valid feeling... had they stood there and allowed students to come and go and ask to talk but let their presence be felt that would be a good thing. But intimidating people to not be able to go to class or their dorm rooms is plain and simple harassment.

So good job today Equality Riders... instead of reaching people you harassed an "entire" community that was mostly in support of future dialogue. Nothing like slamming the door on your own face.

-Venari