Perhaps now they'll understand....

[dsdrane]

Good morning, All.

Perusing the morning news and points of interest in the blogosphere, as is our custom, catching up on election news and commentary added while we were sleeping, Dash made the following observation:

Perhaps now they'll understand the anger and frustrations GLBT people have felt attempting to counter the radical right's lies all these years.

He was referring, of course, to our allies who -- many, perhaps, for the first time -- are confronting the blatant, flat-out lies that continue to be used by the McCain-Palin campaign. We, as GLBT people, are well-schooled in the kind of jaw-dropping nerve with which our opponents will ignore FACT in favor of dogma and ideology. You can talk until you're blue in the face...(usually) to no effect.

I wonder if some of our allies -- especially those who like to tell us to be patient, to "wait a season" -- will follow their own advice if this election slips out of their hands.

Perhaps now they'll understand....

[ctozrn]

Very good point. It will be interesting to see how things are played out. Things seem to get more interesting by the day. I think if we lose this election to the Republicans for another four years, 12 total, who knows what will happen to all the progress, laws, and policies thatare either in place or we are trying to put into place. I believe that having another four years of Republican policies we stand to see some of the progress that has been made in our community in severe jeopardy. It will be a day of mourning for sure. It makes me very nervous.

Christine

[u-dog]

One ofthe interesting things about the upcoming election is that while the Presidential race is close (due in large part to racism) the senate and house races are not. the Democrats are poised to gain large new majorities in both houses. So even if Obama loses, McCain is NOT going to be able to deliver a far right agenda to his supporters (and I don't think he really wants to do that anyway). He will have to work extensively with his bi-partisan networks to get ANYTHING accomplished. and as it happens, this is what he has always been good at.

I DO NOT want him to win. Don't get me wrong. Especially now that Sarah Pinhead is a heart beat away. But if he DOES win I don't think that its the end of the world. Now... if we end up with President Barbie in the White House... THAT might be the end of the world.

Sigh.

U-dog

[Alecto]

I'm a lot more concerned about appointing Justices. :- /

[Gennee]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Good morning, All.

Perusing the morning news and points of interest in the blogosphere, as is our custom, catching up on election news and commentary added while we were sleeping, Dash made the following observation:

Perhaps now they'll understand the anger and frustrations GLBT people have felt attempting to counter the radical right's lies all these years.

He was referring, of course, to our allies who -- many, perhaps, for the first time -- are confronting the blatant, flat-out lies that continue to be used by the McCain-Palin campaign. We, as GLBT people, are well-schooled in the kind of jaw-dropping nerve with which our opponents will ignore FACT in favor of dogma and ideology. You can talk until you're blue in the face...(usually) to no effect.

I wonder if some of our allies -- especially those who like to tell us to be patient, to "wait a season" -- will follow their own advice if this election slips out of their hands.

Perhaps now they'll understand....

The last paragraph brings up a valid point. While they say "wait a season" more LGBT are discriminated against and even killed. An excellent point, dsdrane.

Gennee

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Alecto

I'm a lot more concerned about appointing Justices. :- /

All of whom have to be ratified by a democratically controlled Senate.

[ctozrn]

I am learning so much about politics on this site. I have never really been that interested until now. I always voted, I just didn't pay this much attention. Thanks to U-dog and the others for the information. It has helped me to learn so much about how this process works.

Christine

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by u-dog

All of whom have to be ratified by a democratically controlled Senate.

But with the backbone democrats do NOT have in this day and age (did they ever?), doesn't it stand to reason that they will eventually just cave and okay someone we don't want? Because McBush is going to nominate whoever Gary Bauer and James Dobson want him to. I'll be floored if he ever defies the theocrats.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by u-dog

One ofthe interesting things about the upcoming election is that while the Presidential race is close (due in large part to racism) the senate and house races are not. the Democrats are poised to gain large new majorities in both houses. So even if Obama loses, McCain is NOT going to be able to deliver a far right agenda to his supporters....

My (or, rather, Dash's) observation is not so much about the election, as it is about the bigger dynamic of a larger part of society potentially coming to experience -- and perhaps even understand? -- the anger, frustration and real pain that come from fact and truth losing to dogma and lies.

GLBT people know what it's like; women know what it's like, racial and religious "minorities" know what it's like...but I wager there are many out there, who don't know what it's like and, given the times and the merits (or lack thereof) of the two contenders, cannot imagine how Obama might not win.

What happens when being right isn't enough?

Hopefully right will be enough this time and my musings will be rendered moot.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

My (or, rather, Dash's) observation is not so much about the election, as it is about the bigger dynamic of a larger part of society potentially coming to experience -- and perhaps even understand? -- the anger, frustration and real pain that come from fact and truth losing to dogma and lies.

GLBT people know what it's like; women know what it's like, racial and religious "minorities" know what it's like...but I wager there are many out there, who don't know what it's like and, given the times and the merits (or lack thereof) of the two contenders, cannot imagine how Obama might not win.

What happens when being right isn't enough?

Hopefully right will be enough this time and my musings will be rendered moot.

I knew that I had recently read an Irish proverb about this sort of thing:

The well fed does not understand the lean.

at least that's what this discussion brings to mind. I've had the opportunity to talk about these things with some of my colleagues. Because they haven't experienced oppression, or a denial of their civil rights, they don't understand why I might be so upset with this election and the scapegoating of a minority for the sake of winning an election.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by keltic63

I've had the opportunity to talk about these things with some of my colleagues. Because they haven't experienced oppression, or a denial of their civil rights, they don't understand why I might be so upset with this election and the scapegoating of a minority for the sake of winning an election.

They DON'T UNDERSTAND why you would be upset by that??????

What the bleep is wrong with them??? You don't have to BE in such a position to see how upsetting it is!!!!

[Gennee]

This is where the problem is, Keltic. Many folks don't understand what it is to be oppressed.

Gennee

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by Gennee

This is where the problem is, Keltic. Many folks don't understand what it is to be oppressed.

Gennee

and that's what reminded me of that Irish proverb.

The well fed does not understand the lean.

it's unbelievable the number of people I work with who did not know that my PA is not recognized by our government. They did not know that I could marry legally in MA. They did not know that my legal MA marriage is not recognized by the state of PA, nor the majority of the other states.

[tymejumper]

Originally Posted by ctozrn

Very good point. It will be interesting to see how things are played out. Things seem to get more interesting by the day. I think if we lose this election to the Republicans for another four years, 12 total, who knows what will happen to all the progress, laws, and policies thatare either in place or we are trying to put into place. I believe that having another four years of Republican policies we stand to see some of the progress that has been made in our community in severe jeopardy. It will be a day of mourning for sure. It makes me very nervous.

Christine

I am past nervous, I am downright scared. I remember when all these people signed for the amendment to be put on our constitution in Michigan about marriage. They thought that people would never vote it downa nd that is why they signed it, so it could pass and then no one would be able to overturn it. Well, it backfired.

The writters of it marketed it that coroporations and private colleges could still offer health benefits to gay couples. So, straight people voted to say marriage is only a man and a woman and figured that gay couples would still get the same benefts if a company wanted to give them. Now, there are colleges and companies that are offering benefits and they are being taken to court because "the will of the people and the constitution bans it".

I don't trust ANY of them. I am afraid that people will not vote for Obama and we will be forced to be second class citizens once again. This time, with worse consequences.

[Zerbie]

I'm scared outta my mind that maybe, just maybe, the US elects McCain (perhaps questionably, if many democratic and/or low-income voters are challenged at the polls, or maybe just via Rovian campaign tactics of other sorts,) and that McCain gets in office, and dies. That would leave us with an inexperienced right-wing ideologue as President of the US, and what would that do to the US in relationship to the rest of the world, to our Constitution and Bill of Rights, to the Supreme Court, etc etc etc. ??

Yep. When McCain nominated this incredibly polarizing, dishonest, "pitbull" extremist as VP, I became not merely angered at the idea of a McCain presidency, I became horrified and in great terror of it. I cannot imagine the shambles that could become of the United States if Sarah Palin held the highest executive office in the land. In my worst nightmares, I never anticipated this.

[Alecto]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

They DON'T UNDERSTAND why you would be upset by that??????

What the bleep is wrong with them??? You don't have to BE in such a position to see how upsetting it is!!!!

There's a LOT of folks in one marginalized group who still take part in the oppression of other groups. And I'll admit, I think that if I wasn't gay, I probably wouldn't "get it" as much as I do. There's something to be said for privilege not being able to see itself (and that's not always the individual's "fault" as such).

[inca nitta]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

I'm scared outta my mind that maybe, just maybe, the US elects McCain (perhaps questionably, if many democratic and/or low-income voters are challenged at the polls, or maybe just via Rovian campaign tactics of other sorts,) and that McCain gets in office, and dies. That would leave us with an inexperienced right-wing ideologue as President of the US, and what would that do to the US in relationship to the rest of the world, to our Constitution and Bill of Rights, to the Supreme Court, etc etc etc. ??

Yep. When McCain nominated this incredibly polarizing, dishonest, "pitbull" extremist as VP, I became not merely angered at the idea of a McCain presidency, I became horrified and in great terror of it. I cannot imagine the shambles that could become of the United States if Sarah Palin held the highest executive office in the land. In my worst nightmares, I never anticipated this.

And if this speculative situation would actually occur, I could assume that Sarah Palin might nominate Condoleeza Rice to be our VP, just for the sake of shocking the world and playing the best political game ever! If something like that happens, I'll loudly scream: "Oh boy!"

So, what about Constitution and Bill of Right? What could Sarah Palin do to them?

[Rick336]

I am also frightened by the prospects of a President Palin. So much so that last Saturday I volunteered down at the Obama headquarters canvassing door to door and registering voters. This weekend I will attend two fund raisers here in town and the first week of October I will be working at the Democratic Party booth at the Dixie Classic Fair.

Being involved seems to help.


Rick

[ctozrn]

I like all of you, am getting more scared by the day. I want to scream at people on TV, the radio, people in public...they just don't seem to get it!!!! Do they really realize all that this woman stands for? Do they know what could happen if she were to land the number one spot in our goverment? I truly believe that we could possibly see the reversal of Roe vs Wade, anti-sodomy laws, hate crime laws, and forget all about gay marriage, adoption or any thing else pro gay people!!!

I am beyond scared, I am terrified! I see more and more people on the news, in the paper, loving Sarah Palin! It is beyond my comprehension... When this whole fiasco started I thought it would blow over, people would see her for who she really is and she would be toast! The opposite is happening. I believe it is all out of fear. There are many people that don't want a black man for President. Plain and simple. I believe that if Obama was white he would win by a landslide. I will keep pulling for him. I believe in him, but I am afraid. I am very afraid.

Christine

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by ctozrn

I like all of you, am getting more scared by the day. I want to scream at people on TV, the radio, people in public...they just don't seem to get it!!!! Do they really realize all that this woman stands for? Do they know what could happen if she were to land the number one spot in our goverment? I truly believe that we could possibly see the reversal of Roe vs Wade, anti-sodomy laws, hate crime laws, and forget all about gay marriage, adoption or any thing else pro gay people!!!

I am beyond scared, I am terrified! I see more and more people on the news, in the paper, loving Sarah Palin! It is beyond my comprehension... When this whole fiasco started I thought it would blow over, people would see her for who she really is and she would be toast! The opposite is happening. I believe it is all out of fear. There are many people that don't want a black man for President. Plain and simple. I believe that if Obama was white he would win by a landslide. I will keep pulling for him. I believe in him, but I am afraid. I am very afraid.

Christine

I agree with you Christine, if Obama were white this election would not EVEN BE CLOSE.

I was talking to my eldest son this week on the phone. This is only his second presidential election as a voter and he was begging me to help him understand the very phenomenon that you are describing. He kept saying, "Why don't people see that she is a fake ... a construct... a product. Its so obvious that she is a liar and is just saying what she needs to say to get elected. Her record and all the facts are right there and people don't want to see it." He's a really smart but he's young and a little naive. The obvious stupidity of the electorate was flabbergasting to him.