Perhaps now they'll understand....

[ctozrn]

It is equally flabbergasting to me! (and I am neither young, nor naive ) I watch people like her more and more everyday and they aren't even listening to her. They just don't get it. If we lose this election to them it will all be based on fear and ignorance.

Sometimes I am amazed that it is 2008.

Christine

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Rick336

I am also frightened by the prospects of a President Palin. So much so that last Saturday I volunteered down at the Obama headquarters canvassing door to door and registering voters. This weekend I will attend two fund raisers here in town and the first week of October I will be working at the Democratic Party booth at the Dixie Classic Fair.

Being involved seems to help.


Rick

THANK YOU!!!! We need more people like you!
As soon as 7 Straight Nights is over I want to get involved in the Obama campaign, too.

Zorn (it's Christine, really, right?) alluded to a problem we have in this country that is deeply affecting me too, right now, and I don't know how to deal with it in everyday life, let alone solve it: The polarization that's going on. I understand her feeling like she wants to scream at people.
It feels like we are developing a psychological war amongst citizens. And just when I saw hope for unity, for unifying us as Americans and moving forward to a healthier society.

Yesterday, my Obama buttons had just arrived so I wore them for the first time. Near my left shoulder.
I was DRIVING MY CAR and stopped at a red light. Two pedestrians were passing on the sidewalk to my right. They stopped. They leaned in over the shoulder of the road towards my car and started gesturing, indicating (by pointing to their own shoulders) that they wanted to know who the buttons were for. I mouthed Obama until they read it correctly, whereupon the woman walked off and the man made a sick, nauseous face and walked off shaking his head.
That left me shaking my head that there are people out there who are sickened by a desire to end a wrong war, save lives, save the planet, restore our country to the civil liberties guaranteed by the Bill of Rights but which have been slowly dismantled, and give the economically and politically disenfranchised a chance at fair representation (and in the case of economics, that means a chance at survival, really.) So I thought, wow, that man is sickened by love. And all the judgment that comes with such a thought.

How do we heal rifts like this????

[u-dog]

Zerbie,

I'm sure that those people would not characterize Obama's agenda in those positive terms. They perhaps would use terms like liberal, pro-abortion, tax and spend, soft on terrorism, anti-gun numbskull. They probably wonder how you can justify voting for such an evil person. They no doubt think that you are a moron. If you ONLY watched campaign ads on TV that is almost certainly how you would view the choice in this election. It is very similar to the conversation in my denomination around the moral significance of homosexuality. The people on each side assume that they know the arguments on the other side and don't listen on those rare occasions when they actual talk to each other.

I am working with a colleague of mine, a woman I admire greatly who is on the other side of the issue from me. She and I are developing a little "dog and pony show" where we will converse with one another in front of an audience about recent decisions made by our church and why it is that we hold the positions that we do. Our goal is to model ACTUAL effective communication around differing points view and to demonstrate how it is that people who like and respect each other can hold radically different points of view without assuming that the other person is a moron.

We are going to try it out on my congregation and then hers (both of which are much more conservative than I am) then if it works we may take it on the road to other interested congregations. I'll let you know how it goes ... but it MIGHT be one way to begin to heal the rift. it means finding someone who disagrees with you on the issue but agrees that improving the level of communication is at least as important as being right.

U-dog

[Zerbie]

I don't usually do this -- delete most of a post. But I am so not me today -- it was just a lot of angry ranting that was not even based on anything except a tide of angry emotion, which I can't even identify the source of. There is enough angry ugly stuff out there on the internet without me adding my own crap to the pile.

**
I want to heal the rift, but I'm not able to tolerate the medicine right now without throwing up. I think it's temporary stress.

Also - for some reason, I am all nerves and frayed edges this week. I have had a level of percolating anger going constantly and have absolutely no ability at present to tolerate even the slightest annoyance. It's like Mr Hyde has taken over. That persistent Affekt is certainly coloring the way I look at the conversation around the presidential campaign, as well. The things I'm writing don't look like me or my views, and the way I'm feeling doesn't feel like me, either. I can usually understand a variety of points of view. Something about the polarization going on has frozen me into a hostile mind-set.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by u-dog

The people on each side assume that they know the arguments on the other side and don't listen on those rare occasions when they actual talk to each other.

Waita minute, you said TALK to each other? Nobody's talking to each other. It's all sound bites and talking points, and at least since Palin entered the picture, that campaign is riddled with lies. As in completely made up stuff. Complete reversals of the truth.

I would LOVE it if we would talk about issues and find solutions. It's the deliberate lying, the deliberate appeals to racism, the deliberate sell-out to extremists and weirdos like Gary Bauer et al., that precludes conversation. They don't want conversation. They want unchecked power.




I am working with a colleague of mine, a woman I admire greatly who is on the other side of the issue from me. She and I are developing a little "dog and pony show" where we will converse with one another in front of an audience about recent decisions made by our church and why it is that we hold the positions that we do. Our goal is to model ACTUAL effective communication around differing points view and to demonstrate how it is that people who like and respect each other can hold radically different points of view without assuming that the other person is a moron.


U-dog

I normally enjoy disagreement. But not about basic human rights.

[Unmasked]

Perhaps I've missed a bit, but the last time I checked, James Dobson called McCain anti-family, and at the beginning of primary season said that he would refuse to vote if McCain won the primary. A lot of his acolytes have expressed similar sentiments. Unless I missed out on the last divine revelation, I understand that a lot of fundies won't vote.

Please correct and enlighten me if I'm dead wrong.

<3

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by Unmasked

Perhaps I've missed a bit, but the last time I checked, James Dobson called McCain anti-family, and at the beginning of primary season said that he would refuse to vote if McCain won the primary. A lot of his acolytes have expressed similar sentiments. Unless I missed out on the last divine revelation, I understand that a lot of fundies won't vote.

Please correct and enlighten me if I'm dead wrong.

<3

Yes he did, but that was Before.

My impression is McCain picked Sarah Palin for VP because Dobson and his ilk insisted upon it. And that since she was announced for VP, Dobson et al have signed on as supporters.

Can anyone verify if I indeed recall all of this correctly?

[ctozrn]

I have heard and have NO doubt that the evangelicals are the ONLY reason that McCain chose Palin. I have heard that the evangelicals were the group that he really needed to win over. I think if he had not picked someone that was a fundie that he would have never gotten their support. He is not exactly the most spititual of men from what I've seen. Now that Palin is on the scene she has more than made up for what he lacks.

Kinda funny though, as evangelical as she is I see not an ounce of Christ's love coming from her.

(Sorry if this post seems a little judgemental but I am getting so frustrated and cynical with this whole absurd situation. I can't believe the country is not OUTRAGED about this woman!!)

Christine