Why do you pray?

[Vortex]

As someone who believes that every aspect of our life is deterministic, I am a bit perplexed by the need for prayer. I believe that everything from who we are to what we will do is determined either by nature (our sexuality) or our environment (our behavior and interactions with others) neither of which we have any control over.

Yet many of you believe that God grants us free-will so that we may make our own choices and live with the consequences of those choices. If this is to be the case, why is there a need for prayer? If you are content with God granting us free-will and letting us live or lives then why ask of God for interference in our lives?

I ask this because I too when I was younger used to pray, but have since stopped as I see it as having no real value to me anymore. So I ask of you that do…

Why do you pray?

[pnggrad79]

I pray because I believe that it works. I have seen it too many times to count it as mere coincidence. It requires faith to do. But it is also serious communication with God and I believe it is essential to a Christian's life. I don't do it like I should, but then again, I am trying to get away from a legalistic point of view and all the "should's".

I hope this helps and I hope you find a joy in praying at some point.

Be blessed.

[Zerbie]

Prayer is one the best ways to reconnect to the authentic self. When I begin praying, I'm always in my scattered thoughts, but by the end I am in my heart center. I usually cry when I pray. It releases a lot of the messy stuff that accumulates during the day/week. I do it to get *me* back. Influencing events, well, I wish I could! but even when I want to, that reason is well lower on the totem pole than the reason described above.

If I begin prayer feeling lonely, the loneliness leaves as I remember and begin to *feel* the divinity that is ever present. If I am in emotional pain, prayer brings me to a place of surrender from which I can endure the pain more easily. So for me, prayer is a way of steadying the thoughts and emotions, and regaining the perspective that sees across a lifetime, instead of my momentary wants.

And it is also a way of expressing devotion to the Lord - that too is for me, because it is a deep, deep release to worship.

[Emproph]

-I think Zerbie put it quite well. {She testify, I identify }

I think the idea between free will and God’s “interference in our lives” is that we can use that free will to request assistance from a source of energy unbound by the deterministic features of physical reality, or as I understand it, the creation of God's "thought" of time/space illusion.

All thought is prayer, in that all of our thoughts are motivated by some form of desire. Desire being the inner ‘request’ so to speak, for what we want. I think it’s the conscious recognition and direction of that understanding that is considered the “power of prayer.” The more intense the desire, the more effective the prayer/communication of desire.

When we say “it doesn’t matter,” what we mean is that it doesn’t have the strength enough to become relevant or real. Prayer is the intention to make things literally “matter,” into reality.

Originally Posted by pnggrad79

I pray because I believe that it works. I have seen it too many times to count it as mere coincidence. It requires faith to do. But it is also serious communication with God...

I’d say that it requires faith too, at least in the sense of believing in the reciprocal energy/(God) we don't normally see. When you see it work though, especially when it’s something important, it’s coincidence upon coincidence upon coincidence. -OMG Synchronicity.

Like pnggrad said too, prayer is serious communication. Take the analogy of a young child and parent. Thought would be the child crying for want of something, unaware that the parent hears and is in the process of responding. Prayer would be the child’s conscious recognition of their parent’s awareness and concern for their need, and thus the confidence to ask explicitly for further assistance.

It’s the intensity of the thought/emotion that defines how much it “matters.” In that sense you don't have to call it prayer or communication with God, that's just the best way I can describe it at this point.

[wamee]

at first i wasn't going to reply to this thread it just didn't ,... i don't know why ~ but your letters were all so compelling. do i pray? yes, at times. Why? i'm not really sure. it seems like i pray mostly at times when i hear a loved one of mine is going through a rough time be it illness, death of someone, money problems, legal matters, or what ever it may be. or when one of my animals is sick and i am worried about them. or when i see another show or read another story about how this person was beat up because of their sexual orientation, this woman was killed by her husband, this child was sexually molested, this country is after this country, when i watch a show about animal abuse. and when i CAN't believe how f**ed up this world is and we're still here? that's when i find myself praying the most, when some deep part of me needs to believe that there is something greater than us, something better than this, because sometimes i feel that if this is "IT" it ain't worth it. that is when i pray.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by wamee

at first i wasn't going to reply to this thread it just didn't ,... i don't know why ~ but your letters were all so compelling. do i pray? yes, at times. Why? i'm not really sure. it seems like i pray mostly at times when i hear a loved one of mine is going through a rough time be it illness, death of someone, money problems, legal matters, or what ever it may be. or when one of my animals is sick and i am worried about them. or when i see another show or read another story about how this person was beat up because of their sexual orientation, this woman was killed by her husband, this child was sexually molested, this country is after this country, when i watch a show about animal abuse. and when i CAN't believe how f**ed up this world is and we're still here? that's when i find myself praying the most, when some deep part of me needs to believe that there is something greater than us, something better than this, because sometimes i feel that if this is "IT" it ain't worth it. that is when i pray.

That's excellent.

[Vanessa White]

I can identify with all that has been said so far- to connect with a being greater than ourselves, to try to make sense of a senseless world at times, to get to our center, our "peace", and I do believe that we, even though we do have free will, also all have our destinies pretty much laid out for us. We may have choice about how it affects us, but not really what happens. My biggest reason for praying, besides for God to assist others I love during their struggles, is for God to show me my own strength to cope with whatever is in store for me. I think when I was younger, I used to pray for relief from events, or pray for a person or a something to be brought to me. I don't have a relationship like that with God anymore. WHen I pray, I pray for God to remind me of how I can handle things that just seem too overwhelming to bear, and to remind me how much I am loved. I agree with Zerbie, it is often so deep and overwhelming that I cry, or at least feel fully involved in it in a very meaningful way. Another aspect of prayer for me, is that I used to pray with my head down, and my palms touching. I more often now pray with my palms up and open, and with my eyes open turned toward the sky. I feel like it is more of an open invitation for God to bring to me his love and goodness. Peace to all, Vanessa

[schoolboi]

I pray all the time and I use a variety of prayer methods. Everything from praying in tongues, praying the rosary, the Jesus Prayer, walking a labyrinth, and some times I just yell and cuss at God. In all of that praying, one thing that I don’t do is pray for thingn to happen or not happen. Like others here have said, when I pray I am trying to find myself, connect with God, relax, feel connected to community, and relieve loneliness. I believe that prayer does not change things. It changes me.

[Dash]

I agree with Schoolboi...can't really feel comfortable praying for things to happen or not. But I talk to my beloved. It's a real relationship, with ups and downs...silences...then breaking through the ice...moments of ecstasy...long comfortable hours...

I'm in love... Sometimes prayer is a specific event, but most usually for me it is just turning again into the arms...feeling a breath on my neck... reconnecting in all the ways lovers do throughout their days together.

[schoolboi]

Wow Dash! Loved your post! I totaly relate.

God really is sexy! I love Him too.

[Zerbie]

God, Dash - that's exquisite!

And yea. that too. Oh yes, that too! God.

I first answered this question in terms of when I sit down quietly with the intention to use thoughts to chatter away at God. Either in front of the altar or while seated on top of the bed before going to sleep. Legs crossed, hands on knees.

But all those other things you describe, Dash, are they not perhaps the cumulative prayers of a lifetime?!

I too relate to God in that way. As the ultimate lover. You have to *long* for God that much. Uh-oh, you're getting me started! Dangerous territory ahead.

When I was writing poetry, folk often looked at the poems I had written during moments of worship and asked who was the lover who inspired the poem. . . .

One time, I had been deep in prayer and meditation and prayer again all day when I went out to meet a colleague for a concert we attended that night (he was in process of hiring me, and every instinct said he was trying to scout out my availability in other ways, too). Er, well, I was in a spiritual ecstasy and could not climb down from it. The colleague asked about my mood, and I really didn't feel like saying "Oh, I was just hangin' out with God this afternoon," so I evaded the question. He ended up suggesting that we end the evening early, saying, "Just, go home and call the guy you were with this afternoon."

[Zerbie]

Oh and Emproph - you're really onto it again there! Great analogies, on target psychologically and all that jazz.

What's your day job? Philosopher? Your posts are great!

[keltic63]

I tend to think that it is possible to ask God for specific outcomes or even desires. Let me qualify this by saying that #1) this is not the primary purpose of prayer, and #2) God is not obligated to grant those outcomes or desires because #3) God's will is the ultimate desire.
I've arrived at this opinion by noting a few scriptures: those that tell me that God is a good parent and knows how to give good gifts to his children. as that good parent, God listens to the wishes of his children, and may or may not grant them, as God knows best for us. Jesus instructed us to ask for specific things in the Lord's Prayer, though the examples are basic. There is also the scripture that tells us to Seek, Ask, Knock. Abraham petitioned God on behalf of Sodom, and may have had some influence. So, with all that said, I do ask things of God in prayer, knowing that his will is of utmost importance, and that through prayer, my will can be aligned to that of God.

[awediot]

Originally Posted by Vortex

As someone who believes that every aspect of our life is deterministic, I am a bit perplexed by the need for prayer. I believe that everything from who we are to what we will do is determined either by nature (our sexuality) or our environment (our behavior and interactions with others) neither of which we have any control over.

By this, we have no choice but to pray, and all your questions are already answered...

Recently I joined a group that is saturated with prayer requests from each other, and I wonder if they believe more people praying for a certain outcome will persuade God to bring it about, some how changing His mind. Then I wonder if God already knowing the outcome supersedes my hope for it and voids my prayers. Schoolboi sums it up beautifully by saying "prayer doesn't change things, it changes me." ; a sentiment many have expressed. It is a meditation to give oneself or others, strength to handle whatever outcome.

Also, I tend to pray for a forgiveness already given, intentionally beating myself up when I fail to act as I know I should. God's grace and forgiveness I never want to take for granted.

Keltic63 also makes a point in that we are instructed to pray, almost selfishly; a thing which I find difficult to do as it is so contrary to the selfless aura created by biblical lessons... Maybe I'll pray for understanding.

A last thought, I pray just to thank God. Quietly, thoughtlessly and grateful to simply just Be...

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Emproph

When we say “it doesn’t matter,” what we mean is that it doesn’t have the strength enough to become relevant or real. Prayer is the intention to make things literally “matter,” into reality.

If you don't mind, it won't matter.

[Mia14]

I don't think I really reserve any particular times to pray. My "prayer" is usually in the form of me talking (either in my head or out loud) to God. I don't usually like doing it in churches or with other people, I like it to be just me and God.

Sometimes I'll talk about my day and marvel at the way we got through it.
Often I'll laugh and tell God that "I didn't see that coming!".
Sometimes I'll ask why and imagine a big hand patting me on the head like a child: "You'll understand when you're older".
Sometimes, like schoolboi said he does, I curse at God. Usually I'll wind up benefitting from the situation which once seemed so bleak and I sheepishly apologize for not being patient.

I remember one dark night when I was crying uncontrollably and just in so much pain. I didn't think anything could get through and I didn't think anything could get worse and I started talking to God like I usually do. I don't remember what I said, but I remember feeling quickly calm and almost serene, like a child shushed and hugged. I remember falling asleep just like that - in the same position I was crying in, curled up in a tight ball - but smiling.

So I believe in prayer.
Omnipotent power or psychological placebo - call it what you will,
but it works for me.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Zerbie

Oh and Emproph - you're really onto it again there! Great analogies, on target psychologically and all that jazz.
-What's your day job? Philosopher? Your posts are great!

Thank's Zerbmeister , And yes, philosophizing perfectionist is my day job. That's what happens when you use mind altering *censored* for their intended purposes, long long after the fact.. ...oh what I'd give for a day of an intact ego and the ignorance to match... sigh.

Originally Posted by Daniel

If you don’t mind, it won’t matter.

That's perfect, that's simple, the Buddhist ideal, the realization of the desire to not desire. A position I aspire to. That’s a better example of my "approach" to the relationship between desire and prayer, like many of you above have alluded to and stated. Not using prayer in the manipulative sense to "get what you want" so to speak.

There’s a line in “Mutant Message Down Under” and I often use the exact words. Whenever they prayed for something they would always end with something like, “And may it be in the highest good of all concerned.”

So that’s what I mean by praying for one’s desires, if you begin and end your motive with that premise it helps, at least for me, to keep my will/desires focused on and within God’s/Love’s will for the best benefit of all.

-It does stretch the original prayer out though, always in a good way I must say... I tend to get global..

[Jennifer5]

sorry to be so far off on replying to this post... I managed to miss it before... but I thought it was a great thread so....here

I pray only when I find myself in a situation when it feels right. I don't do so because I was taught(well kind of) to, and I don't do so because I was even told it was a good thing to learn... or any of those things. I see others pray and I don't see why.... until it's the individual who needs the support. I guess I'm saying that the only reason I pray, is to keep myself going. By hearing yourself saying what needs to happen/get done...what ever.... you can feel like you do your best then it's out of your hands.

So I think that by this comment...

As someone who believes that every aspect of our life is deterministic, I am a bit perplexed by the need for prayer. I believe that everything from who we are to what we will do is determined either by nature (our sexuality) or our environment (our behavior and interactions with others) neither of which we have any control over.

....my anwser was, to give yourself faith that everything will be okay, and it will end up how ever it's supposed to.

[Rick336]

I pray because it works. It seems more than a coincidence that the majority of the time I get what I want when I pray for it. If something works I keep doing it....at least until it doesn't work anymore.

If I prayed and never saw any results I'd probably give up after awhile. But that hasn't happened yet.

Rick