Rick Warren to Deliver Invocation at Inauguration

[Matt Algren]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Go with God? "We want him to save..."

Jesus! It's the Second Coming! How could I have missed it? I mean really U-dog, you've opened my eyes at last!

Obama is the man who is going to make everything, and I mean EVERTHING right!

Let's go with him! Whatever he wants! Whatever he needs! Whatever he says! Doesn't matter! He's God!

He's going to SAVE us!

Yes he can! Yes he can! Yes he can! Yes he can!.........

Now now, boy. Remember your place.

[Zerbie]

Originally Posted by nmwolfboy

Agreed, Zerbie. i'm just concerned that the media will only report the anger over Warren's choice, and not the reasons why his rhetoric is bankrupt, or why our rights are important. Definitely speak out, yes. But if we focus more on Obama in this choice than on Warren i fear we may help others in their predisposition to marginalize us.

Nothing to be done about that, unfortunately. The media loves a controversy, and it loves to portray everything in black & white instead of in the fullness of what is really going on. We have very little control over what reporters write or say, and sometimes they get things just plain WRONG.

Luckily, we have the internet, blogs, letters to the editor, etc. We can only do the best that WE can. The rest, I suppose, is luck of the draw.

[nmwolfboy]

Just ran across a blog post from Melissa Etheridge's wife, Tammy, about their meeting with Rick Warren this past Saturday.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Go with God? "We want him to save..."

Jesus! It's the Second Coming! How could I have missed it? I mean really U-dog, you've opened my eyes at last!

Obama is the man who is going to make everything, and I mean EVERTHING right!

Let's go with him! Whatever he wants! Whatever he needs! Whatever he says! Doesn't matter! He's God!

He's going to SAVE us!

Yes he can! Yes he can! Yes he can! Yes he can!.........

Am I totally inarticulate?

Does Daniel actually NOT understand what I say?

Does Daniel deliberately distort what I say?

Perhaps I will never know. Who really cares anyway.

Just for the record though. I am not proclaiming that Obama is the Messiah and I do not expect him to solve all the world problems single handedly in a single four year term. (or even in two)

My point is as follows: We have elected Obama to a particularly difficult job during a particularly difficult moment in history. Let's give him some room and some time to show us how he intends to tackle them before we call for his impeachment.

In the words of the immortal Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that"

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Matt Algren

Really?




Really?!?

Absolutely. (take care WHERE you place the knot though. Serious injuries have been known to result from excessive panty knotting.

[Matt Algren]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Absolutely. (take care WHERE you place the knot though. Serious injuries have been known to result from excessive panty knotting.

I'm just trying to figure out when protesting bigots speaking on behalf of the entire nation became a bad thing. I'm amazed that there are so many people willing to sit in the corner while the big men decide what's best for them and when best to give it to them. When has that ever worked?

And who's called for Obama's impeachment?

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by Matt Algren

I'm just trying to figure out when protesting bigots speaking on behalf of the entire nation became a bad thing. I'm amazed that there are so many people willing to sit in the corner while the big men decide what's best for them and when best to give it to them. When has that ever worked?

Not bad. Go for it!

And who's called for Obama's impeachment?

Ironic Hyperbole Matt. No one is calling for his impeachment.

[Matt Algren]

Originally Posted by nmwolfboy

Just ran across a blog post from Melissa Etheridge's wife, Tammy, about their meeting with Rick Warren this past Saturday.

Just thought I should point out that it's surprising that Rick agreed to meet with Ms. Etheridge. When Soulforce tried to have a conversation with him last summer, the best he could offer was a weird hug before he ran in the other direction.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/12/that...ick_warren.php

Maybe hugging lesbians is just more fun. (He did say something the other day about wanting to have sex with every beautiful woman he sees.)

[nmwolfboy]

Originally Posted by Matt Algren

Just thought I should point out that it's surprising that Rick agreed to meet with Ms. Etheridge. When Soulforce tried to have a conversation with him last summer, the best he could offer was a weird hug before he ran in the other direction.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/12/that...ick_warren.php

Maybe hugging lesbians is just more fun. (He did say something the other day about wanting to have sex with every beautiful woman he sees.)

Or maybe none of us is as two-dimensional as we sometimes like to think.

For the record, i don't think protesting is a bad thing, or i wouldn't have done as much of it as i have over the years. But neither do i think that anger alone will move us forward toward the goal of equality.

[nmwolfboy]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Jesus! It's the Second Coming! How could I have missed it? I mean really U-dog, you've opened my eyes at last!

Obama is the man who is going to make everything, and I mean EVERTHING right!

Let's go with him! Whatever he wants! Whatever he needs! Whatever he says! Doesn't matter! He's God!

He's going to SAVE us!

Yes he can! Yes he can! Yes he can! Yes he can!.........

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Matt Algren

Now now, boy. Remember your place.

Can I have more please? (holding my bowl out)

Pretty pretty please?

[Matt Algren]

Originally Posted by nmwolfboy

Or maybe none of us is as two-dimensional as we sometimes like to think.

For the record, i don't think protesting is a bad thing, or i wouldn't have done as much of it as i have over the years. But neither do i think that anger alone will move us forward toward the goal of equality.

I don't think he's two dimensional, but I do trust the words from his own mouth last week when he compared you to an incestuous pedophile and a whore. I trust the words from his own mouth last week when he said that marriage equality would impinge on his freedom of speech.

I'm not making this shit up. There's video of it all. From last week.

[nmwolfboy]

Look, i'm NOT defending Warren. i'd just prefer that people focus on the ignorance that Warren spreads, rather than jump to the conclusion that the President-elect has thrown gay people under the bus. It's not like Warren's been appointed to any Administration post. And frankly, i like seeing Warren on the hot seat.

And i wasn't just referring to Warren when i wrote about seeing people as two-dimensional.

Besides, Warren doesn't even know me, so he wasn't comparing me to a pedophile and a whore.

Pax et bonum,
scott

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by nmwolfboy

Look, i'm NOT defending Warren. i'd just prefer that people focus on the ignorance that Warren spreads, rather than jump to the conclusion that the President-elect has thrown gay people under the bus. It's not like Warren's been appointed to any Administration post. And frankly, i like seeing Warren on the hot seat.

And i wasn't just referring to Warren when i wrote about seeing people as two-dimensional.

Besides, Warren doesn't even know me, so he wasn't comparing me to a pedophile and a whore.

Pax et bonum,
scott

I don't wanna fight but I'm happy to hold Scott's coat.

[Daniel]

Here's one snippet from Rev. Gene Robinson


http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/rick-warren-def.html

Gay Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson, who advised Obama several times during his campaign, weighed in on the invitation to Rick Warren, and said that hearing about the selection was like was like "a slap in the face.":

"I’m all for Rick Warren being at the table, but we’re not talking about a discussion, we’re talking about putting someone up front and center at what will be the most watched inauguration in history, and asking his blessing on the nation. And the God that he’s praying to is not the God that I know."

My point exactly. It ain't a discussion. It ain't a panel. It ain't a conference. It's a ceremony which the whole world is going to be watching.

Know what? Obama is not going to withdrawl his invitation. That would be seen as a sign of weakness. And that would infuriate Warren's supporters. As it is, Obama, who has been likened to Lincoln, hasn't even fought his own civil war- and here he is- trying to bring us all together as if he had- after the fact. That's what is premature.

Our community is going to have to eat this one. A bitter pill it is too. Especially if one is just married and watching from- say- San Diego, Laguna or Santa Barbara.

I hope that we all remember what's happened here. And by that I mean the ruckus that us gay folks have raised. It's important to stand up and speak one's mind and heart. It's important to call a spade a spade.

It's important to not sit back and expect others to do for us what we have to do ourselves.

Just saw the movie Milk a few days ago. And I was moved by the scene where Milk asks- yea- demands that everyone working for him be out- right then and there- no one can work for him and be in the closet.

We still have some who are in the closet here, don't we?

Let's not confuse our reticence to speak truth to power with our own reticence to be out. And I mean all the way out.

And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[tdogg]

I agree that we need to give Obama a chance to do the right thing once he's in office. I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with that. I also agree we need to let Obama know how we feel about his choice of Rick Warren to perform the invocation. This is not an insignificant part of the inauguration. It's a big deal and I take offense to Obama's choice. I believe that our president elect does believe in equal rights under the law. He says he is a 'fierce' advocate of equality. I have yet to actually see substantiation of that claim, but I am hopeful.

In the same breath I also believe we must let our president elect know if his choice or Warren is offensive, hurtful, and/or angering. He is displacing some, maybe a lot, of trust with this decision. Really, everything he is doing now, prior to actually taking office, is being scrutinized, analyzed and will set the tone for the first year. This isn't the tone I was hoping he would set.

So, while we must give him a chance to live up to this claim of being a 'fierce advocate' for us, we must also give him some feedback on how he's doing so far. Not so great with this particular choice. So, not much else we can do but send our emails, calls, protest, whatever. It takes all actions to make ourselves known, stand up for ourselves and equality. I believe we must build some bridges between GLBT and religion, and I am hard at work trying to figure out how to do that. But we certainly aren't starting with the likes of people like Rick Warren.

[tdogg]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Just saw the movie Milk a few days ago. And I was moved by the scene where Milk asks- yea- demands that everyone working for him be out- right then and there- no one can work for him and be in the closet.

We still have some who are in the closet here, don't we?

Let's not confuse our reticence to speak truth to power with our own reticence to be out. And I mean all the way out.

I feel this is the single most important thing anyone can do to progress towards full equality. I feel for those who chose to remain hidden for whatever reason and I would never discount anyone's reason. Likewise I wouldn't choose to say anything derogatory or disrespect anyone for their choice. But it does, I believe, set us back in our fight for equal rights. It's one of our obstacles - that we can blend in and remain hidden.

[Daniel]

Removed it's anti-gay language from it's website.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/r...-language.html

"So does Rick Warren now welcome gays, all gays, as members of his church? Or is he simply embarrassed of his views - embarrassed of God's views, per Warren's own admission? And if Warren is embarrassed of God's views, then what is he doing as a public spokesman on religion? And whose idea was it to remove the anti-gay language? Warren's, or Obama's?"

[nmwolfboy]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Let's not confuse our reticence to speak truth to power with our own reticence to be out. And I mean all the way out.

And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

By all means speak truth to power. And as we do, let's not fall prey to the myopia that hurt and anger can sometimes foster. The prize we seek is far too vital for us not to consider the long view.

While initially the news of the choice of Warren did make my stomach turn, what's kept me nauseous has been what seems to me to be an increasingly reactive stance of some lgbt leaders. i share the feelings, but worry that reliance on angry protests alone in this instance could lead to a pyrrhic victory for us. Rather, i suspect this is a time to stand tall with dignity and challenge Warren's (and by extension the fundgelicals') slanderous rhetoric.

My personal angst over the announcement of Warren's role in the Inauguration prompted me to go back & review the Soulforce Credo About My Adversary.

I believe that my adversary is also a child of the Creator, that we are both members of the same human family, that we are sisters and brothers in need of reconciliation.

I believe that my adversary is not my enemy, but a victim of misinformation as I have been.

I believe that my only task is to bring my adversary truth in love (nonviolence) relentlessly.

I believe that my adversary's motives are as pure as mine and of no relevance to our discussion.

I believe that even my worst adversary has an amazing potential for positive change.

I believe that my adversary may have an insight into truth that I do not have.

I believe that one day my adversary and I will understand each other and that if we conduct our search for truth guided by the principles of love, we will find a new position to satisfy us both.

[antiochian]

Bad Christmas Gift Idea= "The Purpose Driven Life"