Rick Warren to Deliver Invocation at Inauguration

[Daniel]

Warren to speak at King memorial Lake Forest pastor will speak at historic Baptist church.

By ERIKA I. RITCHIE
The Orange County Register

LAKE FOREST – Just one day before giving the invocation at President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration, a local pastor will be the keynote speaker at the Martin Luther King Jr. Annual Commemorative Service, officials at Saddleback Church said.

Rick Warren – pastor of the 22,000-member Saddleback Church – made national headlines in recent days when proponents of gay marriage criticized the selection of Warren to give the invocation at President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration.

The service is scheduled for Jan. 19 at the historic Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta and is included in the official program of the 10-day King Center's Martin Luther King Jr. Celebration, which begins on Jan. 10.
The Reverend Mark Whitlock, senior pastor at Christ Our Redeemer AME Church in Irvine, said Obama’s invitation opened the door for positive communication between the conservative movement and the civil rights movement.

“I think this is nothing but a wonderful statement about the progress that makes up our lives,” said Whitlock. “Rick Warren – someone many would consider in the southern Baptist tradition – has embraced diversity. We can come together in the common love of Christ in contrast to our social opinion.”

Phil Munsey, pastor of Life Church in Mission Viejo with a congregation of 2,200 of which 22 percent is African American, is not surprised with Warren's selection.

“I think it's unique given the backdrop of demographics of Orange County being so low for the African American community,” said Munsey. “To have an Orange County minister participating is an honor. Rick Warren's influence in the nation is intriguing. Even though it appears he's offended the liberals in his statement, Christians have to hold on to their belief system without being offensive. The controversy is countered by Warren's offer to participate in the MLK event. It shows the seeds Rick Warren has sewn towards reconciliation to bring people together. It's hard to do that in a divided nation.”

Last Thursday Warren praised Obama for his courage to take flack from supporters and invite the evangelical minister to deliver the open prayer at next month's inaugural.

"I commend President-elect Barack Obama for his courage to willingly take enormous heat from his base by inviting someone like me, with whom he doesn't agree on every issue, to offer the invocation at his historic inaugural ceremony,'' Warren said in a statement issued by the church Thursday afternoon.

Then Warren gave a similar rationale for his selection as Obama did earlier in the day – that Americans need to put the politics of the past aside and come together.

"Hopefully individuals passionately expressing opinions from the left and the right will recognize that both of us have shown a commitment to model civility in America,'' Warren's statement continued."

At that time gay activists and many rank-and-file Democrats were aghast at Obama's choice for this high-profile assignment, a moment that will likely be watched by a record number of Americans and people around the world. But supporters of Warren and members of the church he leads defended the pastor and his message.

Warren has been highly visible during the past campaign and in his association with presidents. Warren hosted Obama and Arizona Sen. John McCain at Saddleback during the campaign for a discussion of social issues. And Warren was recently in Washington, D.C., presenting President George W. Bush with a medal for his work to combat global HIV/AIDS.

It is very hard to hold onto the belief that gay people should not have civil rights because of a quasi-literal interpretation of the old testement (why aren't we stoning adulterers?) and have that belief not be perceived as being offensive.

[Daniel]

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/biden-etheridge.html

"I told my manager to reach out to Pastor Warren and say "In the spirit of unity I would like to talk to him." They gave him my phone number. On the day of the conference I received a call from Pastor Rick, and before I could say anything, he told me what a fan he was. He had most of my albums from the very first one. What? This didn't sound like a gay hater, much less a preacher. He explained in very thoughtful words that as a Christian he believed in equal rights for everyone. He believed every loving relationship should have equal protection. He struggled with proposition 8 because he didn't want to see marriage redefined as anything other than between a man and a woman. He said he regretted his choice of words in his video message to his congregation about proposition 8 when he mentioned pedophiles and those who commit incest. He said that in no way, is that how he thought about gays. He invited me to his church, I invited him to my home to meet my wife and kids. He told me of his wife's struggle with breast cancer just a year before mine. When we met later that night, he entered the room with open arms and an open heart. We agreed to build bridges to the future."

The sticking point for Warren? Apparently it's gay marriage. However, he believes that we deserve equal protection under the law? That's great.

Know what? I'd like to hear these thoughts from the horse's mouth.

[tdogg]

I'd like to see Warren actually DO something to demonstrate that he is for equal rights under the law. He demonstrated just the opposite by supporting Prop 8. Now, if he wrote a Friend of the Court to the CA Supreme Court, supporting the lawsuit to overturn Prop 8, then maybe I could begin to believe him. Meanwhile, he either lied to Melissa or he's so afraid of his conservative counterparts that he is unable to tell the truth publicly. It's time for him to put up or shut up.

[u-dog]

Originally Posted by daniel

just saw the movie milk a few days ago. And i was moved by the scene where milk asks- yea- demands that everyone working for him be out- right then and there- no one can work for him and be in the closet.

We still have some who are in the closet here, don't we?

Let's not confuse our reticence to speak truth to power with our own reticence to be out. And i mean all the way out.

And that's all i'm going to say on the matter.

********* ad_hominem.htm_txt_ad_hominem.gif**********

[sauu4equality]

Originally Posted by nmwolfboy

Just ran across a blog post from Melissa Etheridge's wife, Tammy, about their meeting with Rick Warren this past Saturday.

Rick Warren has no intention of letting us "wear our hats." He has said he does not want the "homosexual lifestyle" to be normalized. He has said that "gay relationships" are the equivalent of rape and incest. The damage he has done and the violence against gay persons he has legitimized make him hateful toward gay people. That blog was so ridiculous I can't even believe it...different hats? It is real easy for someone that doesn't need these marriage rights to talk about taking less than full equality. She is ignorant of all the cases that companies have used the distinction between marriage and civil unions to discriminate against those with civil unions. And someone needs to let her in on this little secret. No one has once said that Rick Warren seems like a bad guy. Hence the "Dobsen-Lite" label. But he is hateful toward gay people in a more dangerous way because his friendliness legitimizes his hatred to so many.

[sauu4equality]

Originally Posted by Daniel

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/biden-etheridge.html




Know what? I'd like to hear these thoughts from the horse's mouth.

Won't happen. He's just being friendly behind closed doors. He has no intention of allowing Civil Unions. As soon as he beats marriage, he'll be after Civil Unions. He's got an Ex-Gay Ministry...come on...let's not be naive. Hopefully, he changes his mind. That's what we need to happen. But right now he is effectively anti-gay no mater what Tammy thinks...

[Matt Algren]

And now for the completely ridiculous damage control, in which Rick Warren says that he never said the things he said on video last week. That was apparently his evil twin.

(That would explain the bad goatee...)

[Daniel]

Don't think you could say that about most folks around here. But this is an assertion made by Warren about those who criticize him. Towleroad is chock-a-block with news on this latest development, the key thing being Warren's 2 part address to his church.

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/rick-warren-say.html

I listened to both parts. Not only does Warren make an effort to re-frame statements recently made (thank you Matt), he makes others which are troublesome, the main point being his beliefs about gay people. While believing that he is called to love everyone, he also believes that gay people have made some kind of 'choice', the implication that being gay is not God's will for their lives. Oh...he doesn't quite come out and say it that way, but if you follow his statements closely, this is what is evident. All done with a smile of course.

This may be the central issue which underlies all others. In Warren's worldview, gays need God's love, and he is going to give it to us for our own good.

Oh...and Warren visited a gay book store in West Hollywood.

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/rick-warren-sta.html

What to make out of all of this? I am not sure. But I wonder if this is about damage control. However, after hearing Warren's own words, I have the sense that the love that Warren wants to give us may not be for our own good. It all smells like 'love the sinner and hate the sin' thinking, just a little nicer, a little more cozy.

Gore Vidal remarked 30 years ago that if facism ever came to America, it would not come in the form of a figure like Hitler, but the calm soothing tones of an Arthur Godfry.

Warren is just such a figure. Which is why the separation of church and state is more important than ever. And why symbolism matters. The symbolism in question? His invocation at the inauguration.

[Rick336]

Saddleback Church takes anti-gay language off its website.

Click here: http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid69443.asp



Rick

[Daniel]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1

Richard Cohen says it better than anyone I have read so far...

The conventional thing to say is that Obama has a preacher problem -- first the volcanic Jeremiah Wright and now the transparently anti-gay Warren. But the real problem has nothing to do with ministers and everything to do with Obama's inability or unwillingness to be a moral leader. Sooner or later, he just might have to stand for something.

This was apparent to me almost a year ago when I reported that Obama's church, the Trinity United Church of Christ, had given a major award to Louis Farrakhan, the anti-Semitic leader of the Nation of Islam. The award was presented in Wright's name and featured in a cover story in the church's magazine, Trumpet. When I asked the Obama campaign about this, I was told that Obama himself did not agree with Farrakhan. What a relief!

And what a joke. I never for a moment thought Obama viewed Farrakhan any differently from the way I do. But I also thought that as a U.S. senator, as a presidential candidate or even as a mere citizen, he had an obligation to denounce the award -- maybe quit the church. Do something! He did nothing.

Now we have a repeat of that episode. This time it is not Obama's preacher who has decided to honor a bigot, it is Obama himself. And, once again, we get the same sort of rationalizations. Obama says he does not agree with Warren about all things. Obama says he himself is not anti-gay and, in fact, although he does not support same-sex marriage (as opposed to civil unions), he has been a stalwart champion of gay causes. Therefore, it seems to follow, he can honor an anti-gay activist.

I can understand Obama's desire to embrace constituencies that have rejected him. Evangelicals are in that category and Warren is an important evangelical leader with whom, Obama said, "we're not going to agree on every single issue." He went on to say, "We can disagree without being disagreeable and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans." Sounds nice.

But what we do not "hold in common" is the dehumanization of homosexuals. What we do not hold in common is the belief that gays are perverts who have chosen their sexual orientation on some sort of whim. What we do not hold in common is the exaltation of ignorance that has led and will lead to discrimination and violence.

Finally, what we do not hold in common is the categorization of a civil rights issue -- the rights of gays to be treated equally -- as some sort of cranky cultural difference. For that we need moral leadership, which, on this occasion, Obama has failed to provide. For some people, that's nothing to celebrate.

[Matt Algren]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Don't think you could say that about most folks around here. But this is an assertion made by Warren about those who criticize him. Towleroad is chock-a-block with news on this latest development, the key thing being Warren's 2 part address to his church.

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/rick-warren-say.html

I listened to both parts. Not only does Warren make an effort to re-frame statements recently made (thank you Matt), he makes others which are troublesome, the main point being his beliefs about gay people. While believes that he is called to love everyone, he believes that gay people have made some kind of 'choice', the implication that being gay is not God's will for their lives. Oh...he doesn't quite come out and say it that way, but if you follow his statements closely, this is what is evident. All done with a smile of course.

This may be the central issue which underlies all others. In Warren's worldview, gays need God's love, and he is going to give it to us for our own good.

Oh...and Warren visited a gay book store in West Hollywood.

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/12/rick-warren-sta.html

What to make out of all of this? I am not sure. But I wonder if this is about damage control. However, after hearing Warren's own words, I have the sense that the love that Warren wants to give us may not be for our own good. It all smells like 'love the sinner and hate the sin' thinking, just a little nicer, a little more cozy.

Gore Vidal remarked 30 years ago that if facism ever came to America, it would not come in the form of a figure like Hitler, but the calm soothing tones of an Arthur Godfry.

Warren is just such a figure. Which is why the separation of church and state is more important than ever. And why symbolism matters. The symbolism in question? His invocation at the inauguration.

It's the standard turnaround. "You're not the victim, I'm the victim! Look at all these bad things you say about me! Quit making me a victim!"

When in reality, everything he's pointing to is justified reaction to his hateful bigotry.

And of course, now he's having pictures taken with The Homosexuals and kissing the heinie of Melissa Etheridge, who I expected to be able to see through his nonsense.

(Good As You has been a good source too.)

[Daniel]

Originally Posted by Matt Algren

It's the standard turnaround. "You're not the victim, I'm the victim! Look at all these bad things you say about me! Quit making me a victim!")

Of the dynamic understood in psychology: projection makes for perception.

Which is why beliefs really do matter. Know what? I would feel a lot better if the president of the United States was sworn in with his hand on the Constitution rather than the bible. And I have capitalized one and not the other for a reason.

What's more important here anyway? God? Jesus? The Virgin Mary?

No! No! No!

I want civil rights up to and including marriage. Not anyone's morality on a stick!

[Matt Algren]

And now for a mood-lightener. This morning it was announced that Barack Obama will be sworn in using Abraham Lincoln's Bible. Really cool idea, I think. Nice symbolism, other issues aside.

Comedy Central has this:

Barack Obama to Swear into Office on Homosexual Atheist's Bible

Such a thumbing of the nose at all the good old fashioned family values on which this country was founded will almost certainly come as a blow to all the decent Americans who were hoping that anti-gay rights Christian Pastor Rick Warren's prayer at the inauguration was a signal to their ranks that he would be continuing the current administration's policy of coddling them.

No such luck. By deliberately choosing the Bible of Abraham Lincoln -- a man who, if not an absolute homosexual, certainly had strong homosexual leanings, and who believed in neither the Bible nor a personal god -- Obama seems to be giving aid and comfort to the enemies of American values.

The day seems to belong to the degenerate heathen sodomites.

Now come on. That's funny.

[Daniel]

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepre...t/a/gayabe.htm

C.A. Tripp's book The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln makes the case that Lincoln had several homosexual relationships throughout his life. But the controversy surrounding the book has overshadowed an important fact that Tripp revealed -- a fact even harsh critics accept as true: Ann Rutledge was not the love of Lincoln's life.
Tripp's extensive new research proves it simply cannot have been the case.

And many experts, including Pulitzer Prize winning Lincoln historian David Herbert Donald now concede it is so.

Matt- it is highly ironic that Obama has chosen to take the oath of office with Lincoln's bible. And funny too. You can't make this stuff up, can you?

[tymejumper]

Once again I have to say, cynic that I am, I will believe it when I see and hear it! Let Warren actually come to our defense at the Inaguration and this would end the contraversy once and for all. I highly doubt it will happen, but then again, things more surprising have happended.

Much Metta All

[nmwolfboy]

Originally Posted by sauu4equality

Rick Warren has no intention of letting us "wear our hats." He has said he does not want the "homosexual lifestyle" to be normalized. He has said that "gay relationships" are the equivalent of rape and incest. The damage he has done and the violence against gay persons he has legitimized make him hateful toward gay people. That blog was so ridiculous I can't even believe it...different hats? It is real easy for some rich POS that doesn't need these marriage rights to talk out her ass. She is completely ignorant of all the cases that companies have used the distinction between marriage and civil unions to discriminate against those with civil unions. And someone needs to let her in on this little secret. Maybe, if she left her ivory tower every once in a while she'd be a little more informed. "Honey" seems to get it. No one has once said that Rick Warren seems like a bad guy. Hence the "Dobsen-Lite" label. But he is hateful toward gay people in a more dangerous way because his friendliness legitimizes his hatred to so many.

What i found most interesting about Tammy's blog is that she made such a turnaround. In the days before the blog entry to which i linked, she expressed much of the same outrage that i've seen from some of us in the gay community.

'Rich POS', 'doesn't need these marriage rights', 'talk out (of) her ass' and 'ignorant'? Seems like making assumptions about people we don't know personally isn't just the province of those who want to deny our rights.

There's one question that keeps circling around in my mind. Which is more important: salving our hurts with self-righteous anger, or using the media opportunity of Warren's appointment to once again make the case that recognition of our equality is the right & moral thing?

[nmwolfboy]

Originally Posted by antiochian

Bad Christmas Gift Idea= "The Purpose Driven Life"

[sauu4equality]

Originally Posted by nmwolfboy

What i found most interesting about Tammy's blog is that she made such a turnaround. In the days before the blog entry to which i linked, she expressed much of the same outrage that i've seen from some of us in the gay community.

Seems like making assumptions about people we don't know personally isn't just the province of those who want to deny our rights.

There's one question that keeps circling around in my mind. Which is more important: salving our hurts with self-righteous anger, or using the media opportunity of Warren's appointment to once again make the case that recognition of our equality is the right & moral thing?

I will edit my post because I think name-calling is wrong. Although I stand by the fact that she is ignorant. She obviously from her blog has no idea that civil unions do not allow for equality. It is very frustrating to hear ignorant comments come from those that are in no need of protection or marriage rights. I read Andrew Sullivan religiously, but his constant pandering to the other side seems almost like self-hatred to me. You wanna sit around and take civil unions only to see more discrimination in the work place, fine. I'm sure I can find a lesbian that wants to make an arrangement and get marriage benefits. If thats what we have to do then so be it.

[tdogg]

Originally Posted by antiochian

Bad Christmas Gift Idea= "The Purpose Driven Life"

But if you do happen to get one for Christmas, my buddy and I are planning "Purpose Driven Drive Back". We are putting the word out to see what response we might get, to collecting these and driving them back to the steps of Saddleback church. Preferably a firm yet non-violent note will be written in the first page(s) of the book prior to our collecting them, so that Rick Warren will have some reading material.

I will be happy to reimburse anyone on the SF forums for postage should you be interested in mailing your PDL book to me for the collection and return, hopefully with a nice little note for Ricky.

[nmwolfboy]

Originally Posted by sauu4equality

You wanna sit around and take civil unions only to see more discrimination in the work place, fine. I'm sure I can find a lesbian that wants to make an arrangement and get marriage benefits. If thats what we have to do then so be it.

i've already indicated that i'm for full marriage rights. My partner & i live in New Mexico, where we don't have either civil unions OR full marriage rights. In fact, if Prop 8 hadn't passed, we had planned to get married this Christmas, since we're visiting family in California. Not being able to marry this week as previously planned makes for a bittersweet holiday.