Experiment on Homophobia

[Bethany4Love]

Found this on youtube, thought it was very interesting!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-7A...e=channel_page
Any thoughts?

[christa08]

I always heard that people who talk badly about homosexuals are actually homosexual themselves...I guess it's not just a saying

I can't imagine feeling something and refusing to let myself be what I feel.

[sjbouza]

There actually have been several studies, well not studies persay, done on this subject. The interviewed several individuals convicted of killing or beating homosexuals. In nearly all of them after long lengths of counseling these individuals have come to realize and admit that they were trying to destroy something inside of them. They have admitted to homosexual fantacies, but due to the harsh upbringing and the views of their parents against homosexuality, they had to drive these urges away. One way they felt the could do this is to "attack" homosexuality in others to make themselves "feel better" about themselves.

It is a shame and more proof that the harsh views on homosexuality does do great harm to people. Sometimes it even harms others that have nothing to do with the situation at hand. They are just in the wrong place at the wrong time and are injured or killed. They say that words don't kill, well there is proof otherwise.

Peace,
Scott

Here are some other interesting Studies on the subject

Homophobia and Homosexual Arousal

Survey of Homophobia

Homophobic Questionaire

[Here2Learn22]

That was very interesting. As a non-homophobic straight male with several homophobic friends, I could see how this research holds some weight. Honestly, I think it comes down to straight homophobic men being terrified, completely mortified at the thought of being perceived as sexual objects. The stereotypical beliefs of gay men and women somehow being "overly promiscuous" (complete bullshit) feed the flame that exhibits this fear. I find this especially ironic since women go through this sexualization everyday of their lives. It really demonstrates how masculinity is nothing but a tool for homophobia.
Thoughts?

[sjbouza]

Originally Posted by Here2Learn22

I think it comes down to straight homophobic men being terrified, completely mortified at the thought of being perceived as sexual objects.

I think it goes beyond this. They may feel "mortified" at the thought of another man finding them attractive, however, I think it is more that they are mortified of the thought that they may like it. Somewhere deep inside they may have had some homosexual thoughts.

My husband has a friend and a friend of his is excessively homophobic, however this guy has send my hubby's friend pictures of his penis and has said on many occasions that he would like to have another guy give him a blowjob. Now if that doesn't sound a little like a closeted self hater, then I don't know what does.

If a man is truly comfortable with his own sexuality having another man think he is attractive should have no bearing on the straight man whatsoever. However, if there is questioning inside that person then they are more likely to lash out on the gay individual or the group as a whole. Not wanting to have to admit to themselves that they too may be gay. Having these thoughts can mortify these guys, make them afraid that they too will be found out and ridiculed right along with other gays. They see what happens to outted gays and are afraid to be perceived in that light. It is an affront to their masculinity. I am sure most of these guys were brought up in either homophobic or strictly religious homes and taught that homosexuality is wrong. Now they have these thoughts in their head and fear kicks in. It is the fight or flight reaction. They see the need to cause harm to someone that is a known or perceived homosexual so they can "destroy" that portion of themselves.

So I think it goes way beyond just being afraid of another man seeing them as attractive. It is more deep seeded than that and it may even be more deep than what I have touched on. They may not even be aware of these thoughts or why they react the way they do. Some studies have been done with convicted homophobes, and in the large majority after intensive counseling they do realize that they are trying to destroy something within themselves. It could be thoughts, feelings or a past repressed molestation. In each event it comes down to them acting out against another in an attempt to "destroy" something within themselves.

Peace,
Scott

[Here2Learn22]

Originally Posted by sjbouza

I think it goes beyond this. They may feel "mortified" at the thought of another man finding them attractive, however, I think it is more that they are mortified of the thought that they may like it. Somewhere deep inside they may have had some homosexual thoughts.

Perhaps I didn't dig deep enough. Yes, I'm sure they are scared that they like being found attractive by other men, but where does that fear come from?
Answer: masculinity. Plain and simple. Masculinity has evolved overtime into a set of beliefs and practices that divide up different traits into supposed female and male catagories. Since being homosexual defies some of these so called catagories and traits, to be gay is to lack masculinity. Now I don't believe this, but many do including, I'm sure, your husband's friend. Do you know what masculine men are scared of the most? It is not to be emasculated by other women. It is to be emasculated by other men. Men are terrified of other supposedly stronger men. They are scared of being put down, seen as week, seen as deficient, seen exhibiting appropriated female characteristics. To do this is to be feminine, and too act "feminine" is to be labeled gay, along with all the other stereotypes and life threatening labels.

I reject concepts of masculinity or femininity (at least I try to) because of the pain and damage it does to all of humanity.

[tymejumper]

Oh! poor babies! They may be percieved as sexual objects! Like women have not had to put up with THAT for centuries.

[Here2Learn22]

Originally Posted by tymejumper

Oh! poor babies! They may be percieved as sexual objects! Like women have not had to put up with THAT for centuries.

Exactly, I just said that.

[BruceChris]

But only if it's done by the right kind of people, and in a polite manner.

Yeah, you're right, Tyme. And hey, here's a place where straight men can be more of a social disease than most gay ones.

Peace and Love, Bruce Chris

[scott snedeker]

Or If you are inhabited by the spirit of a satyr like me being viewed as a sexual object is merely recognizing my inner identity!

[tymejumper]

Ok guys, I bow down in reverance to the inner sex Gods in all of you!

[Bethany4Love]

Ok I got kicker of a story here... so I don't really know what kicker is but it sounded cool.
THIS whole idea of homophobics actually having an attraction towards the same sex totally makes sense in my mind.
REady?
A couple of months ago my 16 year old brother told me he had a girlfriend on some sort of facebook application. He pulled up a picture of this hot chick with a hooters shirt on. I was like, "woah bro, that's your girlfriend, for real???" Doubting in my mind... HOW'd that happen? right, lol.
Weeks went by with them basically flirting back N' forth. Well, come to find out it was just one of his guy friends at school playing a prank on him.
When I found this out... I thought about it, what kind of guy would pretend to be another guy's girlfriend and not be completely gay. I shouldn't say completely gay.. just have some sort of attraction towards men.
Maybe I'm just thinking into this too hard but it's just strange. I could see myself in my trouble-makin teenage years pretend to be a guy over the internet in order to flirt with a hot straight girl. lol
So this is not the end to the awkwardness for my bro. This guy constantly makes gay jokes left and right. My bro states that the jokes are 99% of the time are directed towards him. And I know my brother, I would be able to tell if he had an attraction towards men... and he doesn't. It just seems like this kid is totally fighting and pretending and hiding from the fact that he is gay by making gay jokes with every comment that he can twist.

[Eugene]

It really demonstrates how masculinity is nothing but a tool for homophobia.

I read your post several times, and I still don't understand the quote above. Perhaps masculinity isn't the word you want.

Lots of gay men are utterly masculine, thank God. To my way of thinking (as a gay man), masculinity is attractive. Otherwise, I suppose I would be a straight man.

[Here2Learn22]

Originally Posted by Eugene

I read your post several times, and I still don't understand the quote above. Perhaps masculinity isn't the word you want.

Lots of gay men are utterly masculine, thank God. To my way of thinking (as a gay man), masculinity is attractive. Otherwise, I suppose I would be a straight man.

Sorry, I'll try to explain it more clearly. Masculinity are characteristics deemed to be male. Such as independence, being aggressive, ambitious, being determined, callous, unemotional, protective, providing, etc. Historically, masculinity has evolved overtime. Before the industrial revolution, the southern aristocrat was seen as decidedly masculine, but during the industrial revolution the "marketplace man" replaced the aristocrat as the ideal level of "maleness." In order to be seen as a "man" in modern society, a male must exhibit all these characteristics. Any trait that was undesirable was labeled a female characteristic such as passivity, dependence, emotional maturity, sensitivity, compassion, openness, contentment, nurturing, etc.

Now, a stereotype that many people believe is that gay men exhibit decidedly female characteristics, and are therefore not men, but something to be feared and attacked. This is obviously insane and inaccurate, but masculinity is based on fear. American boys are raised to believe that to not be seen as a "man" condemns a male to rejection by his peers and his family. Men are afraid of other men. They are afraid that their "female" traits will be exposed. This fear causes many men to put up walls around themselves, and to attack anybody who doesen't fit society's norms of a "normal" man. Furthermore, to be masculine is not to simply exhibit so called male characteristics. It is to attack and oppress those who don't, and that is where masculinity is used as a tool to insight homophobia. Men attack men who aren't perceived to be masculine because they fear that inaction will insight an attack upon their own "manly" attributes.

I'm not saying masculine traits should be avoided. I'm just saying that the split between masculine and feminine characteristics has created a system of fear that causes people to attack each other because they don't follow the same social codes as others. In no way am I condemning gay men with decidedly male traits or female traits. It is the implication of those traits, and the fear that is created by these implications that are dangerous, and should be examined.

Did this help at all? Questions?

[Matt Algren]

Maybe you mean "machismo".

[Eugene]

I agree that "machismo" is probably a better term. I use an adjective -- "redneck" -- when I refer to the same thing. Maybe because I'm a Southern male.

I'm sorry, but the slant against the word "masculine" smacks of radical feminism from the 70's.

[Here2Learn22]

Originally Posted by Eugene

I agree that "machismo" is probably a better term. I use an adjective -- "redneck" -- when I refer to the same thing. Maybe because I'm a Southern male.

I'm sorry, but the slant against the word "masculine" smacks of radical feminism from the 70's.

HA! It is sad that the word "feminist" has been demonized. I'm a man, and I consider myself a feminist. If you believe that men and women should be equal, and not be descriminated against based on sex, then you're a feminist.

Call masculinity what you will. Redneck, machismo, manliness are all the same thing. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with masculine traits (there isn't), but the value that is placed in these traits in men and women create decidedly gendered individuals.

[Alecto]

Feminism != radfem. I'm a feminist. That said, most folks I've run into who identify as "radical feminist" are really gross about trans issues, and often likewise about other queer issues.

You make this definitive statement Furthermore, to be masculine is not to simply exhibit so called male characteristics. It is to attack and oppress those who don't,
which is, um, hugely inaccurate. The problem with gender is that it's a huge collection of lots of different things. Pretty much every action is gendered in our society, but in order to present, and be recognized, you don't have to follow them all. For some people, maybe they do define their masculinity by challenging the masculinity of others, but that's NOT a requirement to be masculine.

When you say that in order for someone to be masculine, they must take place in this system of oppressions, you betcha you're noting something "wrong" with that. (well, hopefully anyway). People above are trying to make some semantic distinction between "masculinity": one side of a gender spectrum, and the ridiculous and often nasty traits and behaviors that some folks exhibit in an attempt to prove one's masculinity. There IS a difference between those two ideas, whichever words you want to apply to them.

[Eugene]

According to my observation, radical feminism involves a degree of hatred directed towards the male sex.

If you believe that men and women should be equal, and not be descriminated against based on sex, then you're a feminist.

Well, I tend to choose descriptors that apply to my beliefs rather than letting others choose them for me. I believe women are entitled to equal rights with men. I do not consider myself a feminist just because I believe that.

[Here2Learn22]

Originally Posted by Eugene

According to my observation, radical feminism involves a degree of hatred directed towards the male sex.



Well, I tend to choose descriptors that apply to my beliefs rather than letting others choose them for me. I believe women are entitled to equal rights with men. I do not consider myself a feminist just because I believe that.

That's the goal of feminism. Different pieces of so called "radical feminism" such as the SCUM manifesto (scary) muddy the waters when discussing feminism's goals. In any case, an argument on semantics isn't going to get us anywhere.

Alecto, you are right. My statement above was inaccurate. I was simply saying that sexism as a system of oppression places values on different traits, and those that don't possess favored traits are often attacked. Thank you for pointing out my error.