Fred Phelps' daughter on Fox News

[pnggrad79]

OK guys, you have to look at this link. My 18 year old daughter sent this to me, and commented that she couldn't believe this woman calls herself a Christian the way she talks about God and how much He hates America. This woman says that 9/11 and the subsequent war in Iraq is God's judgment on America for its toleration of gays/lesbians. She and her family at Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, KS advocate execution (Leviticus style) for GLBT people. She also said that her family was picketing the funerals of dead soldiers as a celebration of God's pouring out his angry wrath on America.

My question is-exactly how is America tolerating gays/lesbians when we still can't get married in this country?

Click on this link. It is an interview with the Phelps' woman and Hannity and Colmes.

http://media.spikedhumor.com/24864/i...n_fox_news.wmv

[NathanATX]

That video clip needs to be played over and over to respond to "good Christians" who think they are being loving while condemning gay people. Maybe then they will "connect the dots" that very closely link their "loving disapproval of homosexuality" to the Phelps' inbred putrid hostility.

[Emproph]

Slam on Fox, slam on Phelps, slam on Westboro.

They all just need to keep "unifying" and they'll destroy themselves. And in the process, those in the "moveable middle" will decidedly, decide to take sides.

I'm not sayin' it's gonna be pretty...

[tdogg]

I guess we're 'tolerate' by the mere fact that we are allowed to live. The Phelps family are sickly twisted, and I think more than a little dangerous. It's disgusting to me what they do and how they think, and it has nothing to do with God, only their own inground fears and hatred that is perpetuated in that family.

[keltic63]

Originally Posted by tdogg

I guess we're 'tolerate' by the mere fact that we are allowed to live. The Phelps family are sickly twisted, and I think more than a little dangerous. It's disgusting to me what they do and how they think, and it has nothing to do with God, only their own inground fears and hatred that is perpetuated in that family.

ever see their website?

[Venari]

My favourite part, in response to the Iowa law requiring 500ft space from a funeral;

"The legislative Taliban passes an unconstitutional amendment preventing up from putting the cup of God's fury and wrath to your lips and forcing you to drink."

I believe in the inherit goodness of all people, but when I see things like this ... I really have to second guess my self.

-Venari

[Dash]

Creeeeeeepy!!

Ok, first of all, let me say that I watch waaaay too much SciFi Channel.

Secondly...She reminded me of some scary zombi movie or demon movie... Sitting there all dead-faced, grinning horribly at the camera as she listened to them blast her family and herself. Like a puppet possessed. Hidden strings pulling back the sides of her mouth into that perpetual, obscene smile.

Perelandra by C. S. Lewis has a character that she reminded me of as well.

[NathanATX]

Some have suggested that Phelps & his crew are a "plant" to make the far right look bad. Because of my personal confrontation with them, but moreso because of the sick, violent, criminal, abusive, addictive behavior of the Phelps clan which is documented several places, the Wiki article being one, I think they have created their lunacy on their own. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Ph...nd_abusiveness

I don't think a person who truly wants to be like Christ would have anything to do with them.

Also, knowing some of the horrible abuse Phelps inflicted on his family, who's to say they are not carrying out his commands because they are living in abject terror he will hurt them or someone they love?

I think a relevant question for the Church is "How is our anti-gay stance any different than the WBC's?" Both use the same texts to back up their opinions. Most churches aren't going to advocate abusive languange or giving glbt people the death penalty, of course. But the essence of the Church's message is the same: God doesn't approve of homosexuals and will not welcome them into heaven, i.e. God will send them to an eternal hell.

That is the real abuse, in my opinion.

[Jamie McDaniel]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

I think a relevant question for the Church is "How is our anti-gay stance any different than the WBC's?"

I created a booklet comparing the teachings/rhetoric of Fred Phelps with those of Southern Baptists. We distributed it outside the 2003 Southern Baptist Convention in Phoenix.

www.soulforce.org/pdf/sbcandphelps.pdf

[dewdrop_world]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

That video clip needs to be played over and over to respond to "good Christians" who think they are being loving while condemning gay people. Maybe then they will "connect the dots" that very closely link their "loving disapproval of homosexuality" to the Phelps' inbred putrid hostility.

I don't think this would have the effect you intend. I suspect more middle-of-the-road anti-gay Christians would feel like their position is justifiable because it isn't as venomous as Phelps. "Well, he obviously just hates, but we 'really do' love the sinner"...

hjh

[awediot]

ever see their website

"I created a booklet comparing the teachings/rhetoric of Fred Phelps with those of Southern Baptists."

"I think a relevant question for the Church is "How is our anti-gay stance any different than the WBC's?"

"Maybe then they will "connect the dots" that very closely link their "loving disapproval of homosexuality" to the Phelps' inbred putrid hostility."

"Well, he obviously just hates, but we 'really do' love the sinner"...

"Some have suggested that Phelps & his crew are a "plant" to make the far right look bad."

"They all just need to keep "unifying" and they'll destroy themselves."

The law stipulates that any person who works in counseling, psychiatry, psychology, social work, teaching, and so on, who merely suspects that an illegal sexual relationship may be going on, must report it to the authorities. Investigation, harassment, hysterical and inaccurate publicity, arrest, and imprisonment are the likely result. Ten or twenty years ago, the gay movement would have been a source of support for such relationships. Today, it is virtually indistinguishable from the heterosexist dictatorship itself.

The gay assimilationist want to become part of an existing, inequitable capitalist society, not change that society in any fundamental way. Their approach is inherently selfish, not altruistic. They seek minor adjustments in the status quo, not radical social change. They have been co-opted by the heterosupremacist power structure.

Freedom is indivisible. The liberation of children, women, boy-lovers, and homosexuals in general, can occur only as complementary facets of the same dream. -- David Thorstad

They murder our love and yet it lives.
They throttle our cry and it echoes back from the future.

I regret this post already, being so good at making friends. It is done only to defend Christianity and illustrate the ease of ill founded connections. Just how out of context comments are taken, from who and why, you are welcome to research and analyze, but the point will not change.

Comparing Westborough to Christianity is like comparing SoulForce to NAMBLA.

I e-mailed Phelps about two months ago, and said only that, "I Truly do hope that you lead more people to Christ than you drive away." I hope the same for SoulForce.

Where is the difficult empathy for this tortured man or recognition of fatal damage he is doing in the name of Christ? And not just to gays...

It's disgusting to me what they do and how they think, and it has nothing to do with God,

she couldn't believe this woman calls herself a Christian...

I don't think a person who truly wants to be like Christ would have anything to do with them.

"Well, he obviously just hates, but we 'really do' love the sinner"...

Isn't that what it's all about?

Okay. let me have it... or cut me off before I post again.

[NathanATX]

Awe... I submit that there are very concrete similarities in the message of homophobic "mainstream" christians and the message of the Westboro Baptist Church. WBC is more vitriolic and vulgar, but the essence of the message is the same.

God gets mad at sin and eventually punishes the sinner.

Phelps and his crew take it to the extreme, but really... are they that different?

[NathanATX]

After reading Fred's bio at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps and then watching that tv clip several times... it seems that his daughter's behavior, views of God, and "why don't you just behave" kind of thinking give credence to the premise that she and many in that family have suffered much abuse at Fred's hands.

Can anyone else comment? Therapists, pastors, etc.?

[awediot]

I do not know if you have checked out their site... Please do, and then compare them to the mainstream... I've never seen anything that compared to counting up the days someone is burning in hell...

[NathanATX]

Originally Posted by awediot

I do not know if you have checked out their site... Please do, and then compare them to the mainstream... I've never seen anything that compared to counting up the days someone is burning in hell...

I've also encountered them face-to-face.

I know that 99% of Christians aren't going to vomit up the abuse that Phelps does.

However. The essential core beliefs about sexuality are quite similar.

God doesn't approve of homosexuality, therefore gay people will go to hell.

Phelps appears to be more honest and outspoken about them.

[awediot]

Originally Posted by Nathanatx

God doesn't approve of homosexuality, therefore gay people will go to hell.
Phelps appears to be more honest and outspoken about them.

I fear you doubt the claim of many Christians that they hate the sin/love the sinner (given the disagreement as to 'sin') and prefer to assume they are all cut from the same cloth. But the open minded, more forgiving ones just deceive themselves.Those who claim to flat out Damn us are rare, though it may not feel that way. The majority mistakenly lump our 'sin' with the sin they know they are also guilty of, and acknowledge we both are in an on going battle against temptation. "God Hates Fags" is a unique proclamation and the association between mainstream believers and this extreme is exactly like our being linked to the 'noble, liberating' efforts of NAMBLA. The leaps and blurred lines and dismissal of critical differences is classic. If you indeed see Christianity as a whole represented by Phelps, there is no middle ground to strive for.

Do you believe that over used Hate sin/Love sinner is actually possible?

[NathanATX]

I am saying that when you boil away the niceties of anti-gay theology, the core element is this: God doesn't approve of homosexuality, therefore gay people are sinning, therefore they are going to hell.

Originally Posted by awediot

Do you believe that over used Hate sin/Love sinner is actually possible?

In a word, no. It is an inauthentic representation of someone's desire to condemn another person while having the appearance of being Godly. It is unloving and unchristian.

[awediot]

Originally Posted by NathanATX

I am saying that when you boil away the niceties of anti-gay theology, the core element is this: God doesn't approve of homosexuality, therefore gay people are sinning, therefore they are going to hell.

And all I am saying, that once one removes their Rosie O'Donnell colored glasses and grows beyond it all being about the gay thing: God doesn't approve of (X), people who do (X) are sinning, therefore they are going to Hell. Well---Christians are the first to acknowledge that they themselves are guilty of (X), and sinning. As such, do rightfully condemn the act of sinning, but not the soul doing it. The definition of (X) has nothing to do with the larger principle. This is not a problem with the likes of Phelps or fundamentalism, but with Christianity all together.

"Do you believe that over used Hate sin/Love sinner is actually possible?"

Originally Posted by NathanAXT

In a word, no. It is an inauthentic representation of someone's desire to condemn another person while having the appearance of being Godly. It is unloving and unchristian.

How do you know? I have hated another person's actions and not only continued to love them deeply, but even had the empathy stirred by understanding the power of temptation they were fighting, make me love them more. Haven't you ever encouraged a friend to quit lieing, drinking so much or sleeping around without writing them off an irredeemable lier, drunk or slut? And don't you appreciate the loving, hard to hear criticism of a friend pointing out the ways in which you are being an ass, while understanding that you are in fact, not one? Is it not love that causes them to even bother?

Originally Posted by SF

I believe that my adversary's motives are as pure as mine and of no relevance to our discussion.

[Dash]

Originally Posted by awediot

How do you know? I have hated another person's actions and not only continued to love them deeply, but even had the empathy stirred by understanding the power of temptation they were fighting, make me love them more. Haven't you ever encouraged a friend to quit lieing, drinking so much or sleeping around without writing them off an irredeemable lier, drunk or slut? And don't you appreciate the loving, hard to hear criticism of a friend pointing out the ways in which you are being an ass, while understanding that you are in fact, not one? Is it not love that causes them to even bother?

All true...but most people who preach this banal platitude leave out the critical factor which you do not...they don't bother to actually be a friend in the way you describe.

Love is not one side of an aphorism...

[Kathleen]

People like Shirley truly scare me. One reason is that zealots like her are able to get on national television to pass along their message of hatred. There are only 100 members of this church and look at the impact it has had by having a few members show up with signs spouting hatred and intolerance. One piece I did find interesting; when the interviewer asked her what HER sins were, she would only reply that the interviewer was sinning for not lmake his "neighbor" aware of the sins he or she was commiting. People like Shirley never look within themselves. Perhaps it would be too frightening. The question really didn't need to be answered anyway, it is obvious what her "sins" are.