There is a movement in Pennsylvania.....

[Vanessa White]

and I know that I need to get busy. We have a billboard here in the Scranton area that I saw last week, and is still up, that states "Should Pennsylvania Abandon Marriage?" and a connecting link to a website, www.youranswermatters.com. Of course, one of their heroes in the movement to save traditional marriage is James Dobson. These two attactive, well dressed women are driving across the state to rally support, stating that PA in "Ground Zero" to upset the idea of marriage between a man and woman. THey are fully advocating for a state constitutional amendment.

I am working locally with Mia to try to get our ally support up and running, and Zerbie referred me to her network in Arizona, which I need to get more details about.

My main reason for posting here is to ask any and all to check out the website, let me know your thoughts, and if you live in PA, can you please PM me and let me know if you want to get involved??

I am ready to go to battle on this one. I am finally ready for the "big one".

[keltic63]

I'm in. I love this stuff. what can I do?

[Vanessa White]

I am not sure what I need for anyone to do yet. I knew you would jump in. I PM'ed Zerbie for some tips. Have you seen this billboard at all on your end of the state?

[keltic63]

nope, haven't seen it.

[Dumbledore]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

and I know that I need to get busy. We have a billboard here in the Scranton area that I saw last week, and is still up, that states "Should Pennsylvania Abandon Marriage?" and a connecting link to a website, www.youranswermatters.com. Of course, one of their heroes in the movement to save traditional marriage is James Dobson. These two attactive, well dressed women are driving across the state to rally support, stating that PA in "Ground Zero" to upset the idea of marriage between a man and woman. THey are fully advocating for a state constitutional amendment.

I am working locally with Mia to try to get our ally support up and running, and Zerbie referred me to her network in Arizona, which I need to get more details about.

My main reason for posting here is to ask any and all to check out the website, let me know your thoughts, and if you live in PA, can you please PM me and let me know if you want to get involved??

I am ready to go to battle on this one. I am finally ready for the "big one".

I have a suggestion . Have you thought about calling Faith In America to see if they would be able to partner with you in a bill board campaign that would deal with the bigotry at the heart of the issue. Definitely worth a call. Here is the web site:

http://www.faithinamerica.info/front.html

[keltic63]

I contacted http://www.equalitypa.org/ about the "youranswermatters" site and their sponsor "Pennsylvania for Marriage" I directed them to both websites, and got an immediate response from the executive director. I'm not sure they knew about the initiative, but it looks like I may be doing some work for them!

[Vanessa White]

I forgot about EqualityPA- I even get their newsletter! Way to go, I guess we are on our way, huh Keltic? I am going to take Dumbledore's wise guidance as well, and check out faith in america and see if they would help at all. I also plan on contacting our local PFLAG chapter and see if they want to help out at all.

[mjules]

I don't have any tips, but you have my well wishes and if you come up with anything out-of-staters can do to help, just let me know! After all, we're very nearly neighbors! (And if PA goes, I don't wanna know where NY will end up.)

[Zerbie]

Okay, I'm on board and following this. I'm happy to contact the AZ folks and see what they say. Keep me posted and up to date and let me know how I can help with introductions or what-not.

[Vanessa White]

Well, Zerb, the problem for me now is I feel obsessed about it, and am amazed in my naive country girl kinda way about how much venom is out there. I just finished reading a statement on the The Diocese of Scranton website, Catholic Diocese, and it is stated there "In Arizona, the only state where a proposed marriage amendment did not succeed, same-sex marriage proponents spent $2.1 million dollars to defeat the measure. The Catholic Conference of Arizona said 'We ran out of money, they put a lot of misinformation out there that we didn't have the money to answer in the media.'"

From what I can ascertain on line, and I am by no means politically saavy, the proposed constitutional amendment has gone to the House of Rep, and was overwhelming voted to have the amendment go through. However, time ran out before it went to the Senate, it still needs to go through one more time through both, and they don't expect a referendum on the ballot for citizens before 2009.

Again, in my ignorance, I thought that with DOMA on the books, there was no chance for marriage here anyway.

I was totally wrong, and ignorance ain't bliss, letmetellya.

I spoke with Mia today, we are getting together early next week and then organizing a meeting of our friends and allies next Sat. to get moving.

Even though I am energized, I feel really scared. Not because I don't think that I can do this, but scared about the impact, scared of how many people, even people in my life right now, oppose marriage equality.

[Zerbie]

You'll be scared for a while. It lessens as you go through with the campaign, though the occasional beady-eyed large person staring down at you saying 'Waita minute ain't this about HOMO-SEXUALS" can make your stomach curl up and die. But YOU won't.

Yes, our opponents in Arizona directly lied and said our campaign put forth "distortions" and misinformation, when in fact, we simply explained to voters everything that the amendment was going to do according to what the text of it said. It was a very brief text, which our literature printed out in bold. We just showed it to people, with a sentence or two explicating how "no legal recognition for unmarried persons shall be created or recognized" could play out state-wide, and already had been playing out in states with near-identical wording (Ohio's amendment was almost verbatim the same as ours). Given that information, voters decided the amendment was no good for Arizona.

You MUST obtain the text of this legislation or initiative that you are opposing and inform yourself exactly how PA's particular amendment would play out if it passes.

No, having DOMA on the books is not enough for our opponents. It is easier to overturn a legislative statute than it is to overturn a constitutional amendment - that is why they push so hard for the amendments to set gay couples back another generation.

As for people opposing marriage equality: I forget the exact poll numbers, but when Arizona started fighting this campaign 2.5 years ago, those supporting marriage equality were a fairly small minority. The poll numbers changed - okay, I can't remember if this was regarding marriage equality specifically or regarding issues like employment non-discrimination, etc - but I DO recall that poll numbers changed, and after the election was over, Arizona had seen an 8% increase in general support for LGBT equality since when the campaign began. Our campaign not only stopped the tide of marriage amendments, it increased local support for LGBT equality in general.

You'll likely find that working on this campaign can bring things a good way forward. Your campaign needs to find the right message that is accurate and truthful AND resonates with PA voters. AZ's campaign hired a polling group to determine what our exact message would be.

Meantime, when you get down about your colleagues not supporting you, remember you have a whole entire cheering squad out here.


You are going to feel so good about yourself for doing this.

[Vanessa White]

Thanks for providing them, Zerbie. I appreciate your "been there, done that, it will be okay" input. It strengthens me. Until another day.......

[Progo35]

If it makes you feel any better, Vanessa, the same kind of amendment failed here...so at least history is on your side.

[BruceChris]

I don't suppose any of you have any *interesting* photos of Eleanor with Christine? That would be too much to hope for. (I think I may just have a little too much of a Westboro high going, here.)

Anon.

[hippie4lyfe]

Hey Vanessa,

I definitely suggest getting new members through yahoo groups. You can get on LGBT groups in Pennsylvania and let them know about your group and whats going on. Also Craigslist and of course LGBT social networking sites such as this one are a way to draw in people. I'd be glad to help in any way possible, I am in New York but let me know what I can do for you. I also have accounts on other LGBT social networking sites and would gladly post your link or email.

[Unmasked]

"I find it amusing that everybody is so bent out of shape about the whole marriage issue. Marriage in the Christian tradition has existed as a man and a woman, but you’re a fool if you insist that it entails one man and one woman. Throughout the Old Testament polygamy was not only the social norm, but it was encouraged. We condemn this today.

Christianity is one out of countless religions, and the principles that this nation was built on are freedom for everybody. In many religions homosexual unions are treated exactly the same as heterosexual ones, and they have done quite well. I am confident that history will repeat itself and the right thing will be done. Today because of the decisions we have made, and in spite of opposition from the Church, women are no longer considered property, colored people are now considered fully human, interracial marriage is legal, and soon I hope to see equality for God’s gay, lesbian, and bisexual children as well. The separation of church and state is essential for the continued existence and flourishing of both institutes. If they should ever merge, spirituality and freedom will die."

Posted that up on the website I did.

[Emproph]

It looks like Eleanor Rossman and Christine O'Donnell of "Your Answers Matter," are their full names.

Couples or individuals from every deanery were invited to an orientation brunch at Fatima Center on July 14. Eleanor Rossman and Christine O’Donnell of the Pennsylvania For Marriage coalition, David Clark, Diocesan social concerns director, and Mrs. Paulukonis conducted the program.

People for the American Way had this to say about PFM:

December 12, 2005

In the States: "Pennsylvania Marriage Protection Amendment"

The right-wing Family Research Council is calling upon its Pennsylvania members to contact their state lawmakers, urging them to co-sponsor proposed legislation that would deny marriage equality for same-sex couples. The anti-gay "Pennsylvania Marriage Protection Amendment" will be introduced in January 2006 by state Rep. Scott Boyd (R-Lancaster); joined by Rep. Daryl Metalfe (R-Butler), Rep. Tom Yewcic (D-Johnstown), Rep. Katie True (R-Lancaster) and Rep. Teresa Forcier (R-Crawford). The Pennsylvania Family Institute - a state Family Policy Council member, affiliated with Focus on the Family and the Family Research Council - has formed the "Pennsylvania for Marriage" coalition to promote the measure. The American Family Association of Pennsylvania has also launched an on-line petition in support of the discriminatory amendment. A proposed constitutional amendment must successfully pass two successive sessions of the state Senate and House before being placed on the ballot; and does not require the governor's signature.

So the good news is that all the lies and dirty tricks tactics are, and will be exactly the same, nearly all of which have been refuted ad nauseum.

About.com goes through a few of PFM's FAQ's and rips them to shreds. His into paragraph exemplifies my feeling to a tee:

Saturday January 28, 2006

Is it possible to offer a serious, considered argument against gay marriage? Yes. Unfortunately, almost no one who argues against gay marriage does so - just about all such people are anti-gay bigots who don't appear interested or capable of constructing serious, fair, and honest arguments.

Do you know anybody who could set up a comprehensive web site to counter PFM's? A one stop shop would be a great resource--to go to, and to refer to--for activists and concerned citizens alike. Also, you may want to consider a blog to address their ongoing activities - press releases / appearances, articles they are quoted in, Eleanor and Christine's musings from the road, etc.

Edit: P.S. I just wanted to clarify, these are nonthinking people who are counting on other nonthinking people to accomplish their goals. So your best weapon is information, and just getting the simple truth out there to be seen and understood.

[Vanessa White]

I know that a website, and/or a blog is something that both Mia and I have been considering. One of my greatest challenges in this is to take my emotion out of the issue as much as possible, as many of our opponents have not, using fear and panic to incite support and dissention; my other big challenge/absolute is that even though the opponents don't, the supporters DO need to keep religion out of it when talking constitutional amendments. That will hopefully, be their down fall. By accusing judges of being "activist" (which to me is not a bad thing!) they are speaking from their values and supposed morals rather than from a legal, constitutional perspective. I am sure that they do not expect us to be calm and well educated in the issue and in our demeanor.

I believe that allies are a big source of support for us as well, gain support on that end in addition to the LGBTQ community.

Progo, thank you so much for that perspective, because with Mass and with Arizona, history is definitely on our side. And hippie, I will let you know what help we may need. I have NEVER done anything like this before, so I am not sure yet what I will need, except ideas and lots of support. The web definitely can be used to our advantage however. It seems like we have time on our side, but we really don't, the clock is ticking. I do need to secure a copy of the proposed amendment as well to get really educated about that.

Someone told me once that I would make a great lawyer, if I hadn't been a social worker. And I did think about it. So I will be tapping into those skill areas.

[nmwolfboy]

Here's a link to the PA page of the Freedom to Marry Coalition. They may be of some help.

Also, there used to be a large lgbt activist community in Pittsburgh. However i've been out of that loop for many years. The only name i can remember is Billy Hileman, who might be a helpful resource if he's still in the Pgh area. He was the founder of Pgh's ACTUP cell. Maybe someone there can look him up? I think he may still work for Pittsburgh Public Schools.

Pax,
scott

[andrewlittle]

Originally Posted by Vanessa White

...my other big challenge/absolute is that even though the opponents don't, the supporters DO need to keep religion out of it when talking constitutional amendments. That will hopefully, be their down fall. By accusing judges of being "activist" (which to me is not a bad thing!) they are speaking from their values and supposed morals rather than from a legal, constitutional perspective. I am sure that they do not expect us to be calm and well educated in the issue and in our demeanor.

I applaud loudly what you are contemplating, and what I am going to offer is NOT meant to be contentious - just something to think about.

When the opponents DO bring RELIGION into the equation, they garner some important support from those who are religious, but not necessarily rabid Christians. Christians have long been told that "secularization" is a threat to their belief system - which is, of course, a load of crap. But they believe it.

Perhaps, faith issues (rather than RELIGION, per se) does need to be included, just not center stage. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is recognizable to Christians as a faith value that stands in contrast to "they're all going to hell". Could the expression of some egalitarian and more ecumenical faith values create a bit of a scenario in which people have to decide what values they give priority?

Even key Democrats have learned that you can't NOT talk about faith, even you you avoid religiosity. An interesting read might be one of the recent Christian Century issues that dealt with this.

Anyway, just a thought. Does NOT talking faith leave people with faith issues on one hand and secualr ones on the other, while talking softly about faith leaving them wrestling with conflicting faith issues that just might move them into action?