The Big Lie About Universal Health Care

[tpdncr4christ]

Originally Posted by tymejumper

My point: we are all entitiled to simple and basic things, such as shelter, food and health care, to not help others with these things proves we are not caring creatures and are no better than animals. This is not the survival of the fittest.

Tyme, you make a really good point. What you illustrate is a belief in equal condition, one that many other countries do have. In America, the majority believes in equality of opportunity, not equality of condition. That's why so many people have trouble with sanctioning Universal Healthcare, they still believe that people should have equal opportunity, not equal condition.

I would like to put aside the debate for how we are going to fund health care and would ask why are we paying so much? As a society we've accepted the fact that big pharmicudical companies can make huge profits using patents and other legal restrictions to reduce competition. An average stay at the hospital can reach into the thousands of dollars for one person. Why aren't we concerned with driving those costs down? We are all trying to figure out who's gonna foot the thousand dollar bill when no one's asking why the hell is it so expensive?

Another thing that I think of when people talk about health care is where is the preventative healthcare? Our entire system of health care is based on treating symptoms of diseases we have already experienced. Why aren't we funding research and advertising ways to live a healthy life? We have an epidemic of obesity in this country and very little is being done about it. We die of diseases of excess, and yet we insist on going to the doctor after our hamburgers and milkshakes have given us heart attacks. I think we should focus more on preventing illness and making healthy decisions to live a healthy life.

Yet, I understand the need for health coverage. Why we let someone who lives down the block from a hospital die because she can't afford the treatments to keep her alive astounds me. We live in a country with the greatest technological advances on the planet and yet we let people die and go on being sick, when we can cure them, because they cannot afford to live. Call it what you may, but not helping people who need to be helped is, in my mind, criminal.

[andrewlittle]

There are several incidents I could use for examples on the need for universal health care, but this one should suffice.

I recently had some blood tests done. The hospital billed the insurance company its usual and customary charges, which were $522. By the terms of the negotiated agreement with the hospital, the insurance company approved $52.66 of the charges and discounted the rest. My part is a piddling $13 of the $52.66.

My point here is that a person without insurance would be billed and expected to pay $522 for these tests plus (in New York) something called an "indigent fee", an additional surcharge for uninsured people. Those without coverage would need to pay ten times the price that the hospital agreed to take from an insurance company.

This is not the first time I've been struck by this type of practice. In 2000, when I was uninsured for a period of time, I had a hernia repair. After the fact, I found out that a friend's insurance company (the friend had the same surgery 2 months earlier) had paid $1800 for all the costs of the surgery. They paid another $200 as their part. My bill, becuase I was uninsured was $12,300. I managed to negotiate this down to $5000 becuase I knew my way around a corporate structure, but it was still 2.5 times the price an insurance company paid. Other people would be stuck with charges that were 6 times the insurance rate.

This is why uninsured people do not seek medical care early. By the time they do, the situation may be more complicated and expensive anyway. Universal healthcare would at least level the playing field.

[BruceChris]

(OFFOG) And I support everything she says.

BC

[Daniel]

Andy's point is well-taken.

About 8 years ago, my husband was hit by a car as he was crossing the street. It threw him 20 feet. He's very lucky he wasn't killed. He didn't have insurance at the time. And the trip to the emergency room cost over 2500 dollars for what turned out to be a very bad bruise on his calf which meant walking on crutches for 4 weeks. I can't imagine what it would have cost had his injuries were extensive- a broken leg- internal injuries- multiple day stay in the hospital.

This is way so many people have to sell their homes, go into bankruptcy (if they can get it- laws for filing are much stricter now thanks to Mr. Bush and Congress!), or unfathomable credit card debt which they can never get out of.

The crime here is greed. Unadulterated greed on the part of insurance companies which offer no treatment, no service, no product to speak of. They are middlemen who make a profit on the suffering of others.

This jaded New Yorker thought he couldn't be shocked, that is, until he read that one insurance CEO was paid more than 8 million. For What? Making sure that the shareholders get their money.

Universal health care won't happen until Congress gets serious. Really serious regulating an industry that does nothing but serve its bottom line.

[offog]

Thanks to the people who've responded recently. I really didn't expect to get more responses after all this time. Sorry about not checking in earlier. I've been busy working in a by-election campaign for the last 4 weeks, so I've been neglecting my "blogging duties." (A by-election is a special election to fill just one seat. My Provincial Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) stepped down in June so that our new party leader could run for a seat.)

The stories people are telling here really scare me. I've been watching news coverage of the American health care debate, and I'm amazed that so many people are more afraid of "socialized medicine" than they are of the system they have now.

Andrew's story really appalled me. The health care system does sh*t like that to people and then wonders what's with the push for health care reform. Uh huh. So you have trouble scraping together money for your health care, and now we're going to punish you further for being poor.

One complaint that's come up is that private insurance companies can't possibly compete with a government-run insurance system, and would go out of business. Tuff noogies, guys! If you weren't charging sky-high prices for lousy service, you wouldn't have to worry about that! Besides that, Canadian private health insurance companies are doing just fine, providing supplementary coverage.

And this business with alleged "death panels"??! What a load of bull! Providing end-of-life counselling is not about deciding to "pull the plug" on anyone. It's a humane thing to do. I guess part of the reason for the hysteria is that our society doesn't want to talk about death and mortality. For example, a lot of people won't make wills out of fear of "jinxing" themselves, even though passing away without a will causes all kinds of problems for the people left behind.

My Mom had the guts and sense of responsibility to make a will and a living will about ten years ago. One reason was that she didn't want to be kept alive by machines if things came down to that. She didn't want to end up lingering for years in a vegetative state. Right now she's in a nursing home with dementia. She's also in a wheelchair. Her mind has been going on her for several years. We can still have good discussions about politics and such, but her mind is going to keep getting worse.

Mom is aware that her mind is going, and I know she wouldn't have wanted to end up this way. She would have preferred to have one big stroke and go quickly. So one day I explained to her what a "do not resuscitate order" is, and asked if she wanted me to arrange for that. She thought about it for a week, and said yes.

Giving the people the option of making that decision doesn't mean that we're going to arbitrarily decide that certain people are not worth keeping alive. If you want any and all measures taken to keep you alive, you can arrange that.

I'm going to make a living will myself when I can afford it. The thing I'm most afraid of is ending up lingering for years with dementia or Alzheimer's. So I'm going arrange things so that I get a "do not resuscitate order" kicking in if I end up with a condition where my mind deteriorates.

BTW, another thing that should go into a living will is a provision that you get enough medication to keep you comfortable. Mom's lawyer recommended that. Doctors tend to undermedicate for pain because they're afraid you might pass away sooner, and then the family will sue the doctor.

I'm pleased to see so many people getting in on this discussion. Maybe Americans will finally get a proper health care system, despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the opponents of health care reform.

[BruceChris]

You will find out that it is $2.5 TRILLION dollars. That is $8,200 dollars for every man, woman, and child in this country.

What National Health Care will do, among other things, is take about ONE TRILLION DOLLARS out of the pockets of some very nasty people. And don't expect them to be polite about it.

The crime is not that we are trying to change the system, the crime is that we have let it go on this long.

Bruce Chris

[BruceChris]

He had traveled around the world studying what he considered the countries that he believed had reasonable and workable national health care.

In those countries that had medical insurance companies, they ALL had non-profit companies.

No, Bubba, we're not going to kill off granny.

BC

[Emproph]

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Funny or Die, Inc..

Thanks for the link (see below) U-dog, I figured it would get pulled, but not so fast.

[offog]

Wow, Emproph! Great bit of satire there! Did I see Will Farrell in there? I think I also saw that guy who plays Hiro in the "Heroes" TV series. If so, it's nice to know that he's a real-life hero too.

Thank you so much for posting that.

And thanks again to all the folks who posted here. I posted threads on this issue at 2 other web sites, but this is where I got the best response. People at Soulforce rock!

[offog]

I just watched that video with the mock "Battle Hymn" about standing up for the insurance companies. Totally brilliant!

Thanks for posting that!

[u-dog]

You can view it here: http://pol.moveon.org/insurance_execs/?rc=homepage

[Emproph]

October 27, 2009 2:39 PM:

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) said Tuesday that he would support a Republican filibuster of a health care bill that includes a public option.

This is from some time ago, but note the last square/rectangle:



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[drobs]

Have and have nots? Please...

Here's my issues with it. I work for a living. Why should I have to pay for someone that doesn't?

Seriously, while working back in the states there were days that I would go grocery shopping and barely have enough money to get a few necessities, while these people on WIC are filling up 3 shopping carts full of food.

They are sitting on their butts doing nothing, having things handed to them, while I work my butt off for what I have.

I don't buy into in to that.

[Pablo Rafael]

Drobs, I take somewhat of an offense when you talk about poor people sitting on their butts doing nothing but taking from others. That is a prejudicial stereotype.

Sure there are people who have taken advantage government handouts, but I look around me and find that most lower income people like myself are hard working. We are not just sitting around. President Clinton's welfare reform bill really helped put an end to a lot of that abuse.

Health care and education are two things that are essential to everyone in a fair and just society.

Face it, there are haves and have-nots in our society. Statistics show that the gap between rich and poor is ever widening. Now I have no problem with people making money, but I do have a problem with people who make more in an hour than I make in a year. There is something just not right about that.

Being a Christian I see all throughout the Bible a strong emphasis on the wealthy carrying some of the burden for the poor.

[BenL]

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

Being a Christian I see all throughout the Bible a strong emphasis on the wealthy carrying some of the burden for the poor.

And the poor having a special place in God's love!