Will you settle for "civil unions"?

[tdogg]

Originally Posted by Daniel

I've seen the Goddess side of you as she is no fool!
Go Zena!

Awww, thanks Daniel.

Alright, back to the battlefields!!

[awediot]

Originally Posted by tdogg

Awe,

If it were only about me and only about marriage/benefits, I would be satisfied with a civil union. I'm married, have state benefits (but not federal) and a very happy life partnership with the person I married. I'm fairly satisfied.

One thing I've come to accept is that people will never be fully satisfied. When we get what we want, we find we've reached a plateau worth celebrating and praising God for...we also discover a new panorama we could not previously see, a new opening into deeper, thicker woods,a trail needing blazed and a different, even more beautiful and challenging peak, making our greatest accomplishment a cherished stepping stone we soon build from, and leave behind.

But it's not all about me. It's about everyone else too. It's especially about our youth, who are suffering because of the anti-gay sentiment that runs particularly wild in religion. It's about stopping the bullying, harrassing, and violence in schools. It's about helping our young citizens feel worthwhile, loved, equal to their straight peers, so that they don't feel the need to fill that void with alcohol, drugs, unsafe sex and even suicide. It's about not eve ever having to read another article about a hate crime against a GLBT person.

There are those who can only feel good, and find cheap, brief flashes of satisfaction by stepping on others...Stepping on them, or lifting them up, whatever it takes, only gives us a slightly longer rush and purpose.

The pinnacle we all see of not just tolerance, but a genuine, rock solid love, appreciation, want for and respect of each and every previous enemy we've finally loved into actually being lovable, haunts, taunts, inspires us and crushes us with failure... Everyone wants life to be easier, sweeter and richer for the children who will inherit our sin torn world...

It's not all about marriage either. It's about full equality. It's about you, me and everyone else enjoying the exact same rights, privileges, protections and even responsibilities as the next person. Black, white, tall, short, old, young, gay, straight, etc. being treated fully equal under the law. It's about much much more than 'gay marriage' as the media likes to put it.

We can both coerce those we see doing damage into better behavior and silencing their demonizing underground, and we can try to shine a light on the destructive beliefs they harbor... Rights, privileges, protections and responsibilities can be injected into the system through threat of law and punishment. It can be a wonderful, or horrible thing. Respect, acceptance, love and encouragement, cannot be invoked that way...

Can "equality"? Which category is it in? Have we who will settle for nothing less fully defined it even for ourselves yet?

I suppose this thread boils down to if we will settle for "being treated fully equal under the law" as you said, or if we will stay righteously dissatisfied until everybody loves us, and thinks we're just as "normal" as them.

This has nothing to do with gay rights. It has everything to do with equality. I have nothing against you settling for anything less. You are not required to get up and do anything about the inequality and injustice against GLBT people. You can be satisfied with what you have and refuse to spend another second, dollar or ounce of energy fighting for anyone else. I will fight twice as hard to get us there. It may come, eventually, generations down the road. But I'm working hard to get it here much faster. We can't really waste time, people are literally dying for lack of it. That is why I cannot settle for anything less than full equality.

I am more geared toward addressing the beliefs, than the actions of those who are capable of causing harm for a greater good (or, all of us). Political activism targets the deeds which it perceives to be destructive. It is pragmatic, practical, defensive and can be immediately effective... I am grateful for those who've been drawn to serve it... It is also offensive, uncompromising, hypocritical and repressive, biased toward it's own minority's well being... It is of course motivated by a philosophy, but it is the ends, not the means which most drive it along. Unfortunately, this may briefly forge a truce between enemies with a higher evil they both want defeated, which will typically break apart upon success. And worse, whether the Enemy has had a change of heart and a long lasing solution was reached, or if they've just been disempowered and quarantined away where their hatred and vengeance can fester, is a question the soldiers avoid, as it creates strife among the ranks, and the clash of equals begins again.

There was a classic, vicious fundi reverend on CARM who said they wouldn't think twice before kicking their 15 year old boy into the street, should they be "effeminate"... There is no law to solve that... I want him to understand, to see the light as it were, not to be fined or imprisoned if he refuses to house a child he deplores... That is my battle... and it works.

We need both types of "activists" and advocates and peace makers... I just want to know the philosophy or belief systems or religions that inspire and motivate people to reach for the exact same goal in such conflicting, ruinous ways. That is IMO the only way it can really work.

[tdogg]

I agree with you on some points, in that political action alone will not give us the 'equality' we are seeking. Or at least, I am seeking. Which is why I'm active in various aspects.

One of the things that I feel is vital, and that I'm working to do, is bringing the discussion of marriage equality into churches, mainly those that have split congregations, as far as supporting or not supporting marriage equality. Or perhaps the church is seeking to become reconciling. The material is written to explore marriage from a Christian point of view, but also with an open mind. So far my experience doing this has been profound. But the first workshop I'm involved in putting on is down the road 3 months. Guess we'll see how that goes, depending on who shows up.

I think the simplest thing we can do is live out and be ourselves, which is also the most important. Next is talking to people, taking the discussion out to our family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc. Talking openly and kindly about the difficult stuff. That is a very hard thing for me to do, because I've listened to people who call themselves Christians say pretty mean and hateful things to me, treat me like crap and try and shove their ideals down my throat. It will take a lot of patience to listen to it for any length of time.

I'm a work in progress, and I'm all about enjoying the journey. I believe we'll have equality in our lifetime (unless it's cut short). But being actively involved feels so much better than sitting around talking about it.