Are there any Christians on this site anymore?

[LesBePure]

I am blessed to accept the label of Christian - Christ follower - not a religious person though. I am sad by those who try to claim the title of Christian and yet preach hate, religion and man's twisted theology.

[antiochian]

I am not a Christian, and I am sick of gay friends giving me a hard time about my religious beliefs. Even in gatherings at the local LGBT center, the leaders tend to assume that everyone there is Christian, or at least monotheistic. Not everyone believes the same things, just as not everyone loves the same way.

[u-dog]

and I'm still here.


Pablo is a Christian but he's buried under a snow drift right now.

HEY PABLO!! YOU OK??

[keltic63]

I used to be a christian, but I gave it up for Lent.

[dsdrane]

I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

I came to the conclusion long ago … that all religions were true and also that all had some error in them, and whilst I hold by my own, I should hold others as dear as Hinduism. So we can only pray, if we are Hindus, not that a Christian should become a Hindu … But our innermost prayer should be a Hindu should be a better Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim, a Christian a better Christian.

I consider western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ’s Christianity.

I confess I agree. I also confess that I am a reluctant Christian. I spent most of my adult life (up to a few years ago) actively shunning Christianity (especially, but also all religion). The Church ended up making me an offer I couldn't refuse. When God calls, it's simply rude not to obey. This "invitation" came to me within a certain culture, within a certain society, within a certain family with certain traditions. I did not choose Christianity over other religions; rather God invited me via the Christian Church. I accepted him there, but I did so fully convinced that God was ok with the fact that I didn't believe for one second that I was embarking on the one, true path. He knows that I embarked on the path in front of me, and I fully expect to see my Jewish, Hindu, etc. co-travelers in "heaven".

This sounds passive, but it is not. I'm perfectly comfortable thinking of the Almighty in the triune tradition of my church. And I'm perfectly comfortable looking to the Christ to teach and guide me. I find the story engaging and the liturgy enriching. It matters more to me that Christian theology brings me to the truth; I don't require it to be the truth itself.

I'll end with more Ghandi.

I worship God as Truth only. I have not yet found Him, but I am seeking after Him.

[Daniel]

My religion is kindness- Dalai Lama

Makes sense to me.

[Dink63]

I'm new to this forum...but certainly not new to embracing my sexuality & have found a way that works (most of the time) for me to continue to practice the faith that I was raised in (Roman Catholic). At 46, I find myself often questioning everything that organized religions teach. It is a process for me that ebbs & flows, depending on where my head is at any given moment. I recently had a heart-to-heart with my mother about how I sometimes feel like a fraud, in that I am "God-father" to one of my nieces & one of my nephews....since I find myself reluctant to actively participate in all of the Sacraments. I explained to Mom that I believe that God knows my heart & He/She forgives me for my "sins" without needing to fully participate in confession (which is now called "Reconciliation".)

I realize that the official teachings of the Catholic faith embraces us LGBT folks...as long as we do not "practice" our sexuality. Since I believe that my sexuality is exactly how I was created, I guess that makes me a "cafeteria catholic"....I pick & choose what works best for me & skip past the rest.

[Pablo Rafael]

Originally Posted by u-dog

Pablo is a Christian but he's buried under a snow drift right now.

HEY PABLO!! YOU OK??

I am doing quite fine. The snow drift has melted enough for me to poke my head out.

I haven't been around the forums much lately. Most of my online time anymore seems to be emailing the boyfriend. I know, I know....everyone feels for me. It is a tough life.

I refuse to let the fundamentalists take possession of the term "Christian". I am happy to be a Christian. I am also very certain to let people know that the right wing fundamentalists do not represent the Christianity that I see shown to us through the grace of God.

I had someone talk to me about her lesbian daughter. She said that the daughter was unable to find a church where she was accepted. That puzled me a little. I have been warmly welcomed in both the Catholic church and the Episcopal church (where I am a member). There is no reason that one needs to choose between being gay and being Christian. The two go together quite wonderfully.

But I must run...the boyfriend needs another email.

[bnmoore]

Originally Posted by Pablo Rafael

But I must run...the boyfriend needs another email.

Enabler!

Just kidding. I met a couple yesterday having a long distance relationship. One's in Atlanta, the other in New York City.

[scott snedeker]

For the purpose of Discussion I would propose Establishing a Definition for each:


Christian- A follower of Church leader who believes in the leader's and intstitution's teachings. This paradigm is based on their interpretataion of selected verses in the Old and New Testament that they feel are appropriate while eschewing inappropriate ones that contradict their paradigm.

The capital"C " denotes a proprietory status claimed by the institution of their own discipline of thought with its belief that it speaks for Christ and possesses the Divine Authority to reward or condemn as His proxy.

To be a Christian you must agree with the intstitution's position. Inclusion or exclusion is at their discretion based on their definition and their set of rules that they carefully selected from scripture; either comply or you are not a "Christian ."


christian- One who believes that Christ is the divine son of God as defined in the Old Testament. A christian follows Christ's Teaching through his/her own interpretation as opposed to following an institutional interpretation even through he/she may attend a church. The small case "c" denotes the absence of a proprietory claim to speak for Christ as His proxy.

non-chistian follower of Christ's teaching- One who believes Christ was as human as anyone with a special genius who could see love in every being. Often seen as a contemporary of Buddha

Pagan- Pre-Roman spirtual practice of Europe largely nature-based revived in modern day. Two major types of paganism today are Wiccan and Druidic

Wicca was popularised in 1954 by Gerald Gardner, a retired British civil servant, who at the time called it a "Witch cult" and "Witchcraft", and its adherents "the Wica".

Wiccans, as followers of Wicca are now commonly known, typically worship a Goddess and the Horned God, who are sometimes represented as being a part of a greater pantheistic Godhead. Other characteristics of Wicca include the ritual use of magic, a basic code of morality, and the celebration of eight seasonally based festivals.

Druidism is a form of modern spirituality or religion that generally promotes harmony and worship of nature, and respect for all beings, including the environment. it is considered to be a philosophical movement that includes religious tolerance, allowing its followers to be adherents of other religions, or to be atheists. Druids believe that all living things have awareness and are connected through an awareness (animism and hylozoism) Druids often honor appreciation of nature's magnificence with sex.



Helpful or too biased?

I added the pagan definitions for balance

[dsdrane]

Reply pending...must wait for head to stop spinning.

[Rick336]

There are also these religions: ( From the Handbook of World Religions)


The Aetherius Society - They believe Jesus is a cosmic master, sent to earth to offer help, a great moral, wise teacher in the line of Krishna and Buddah, and that he returned in 1958 in undisguised splendor.

They believe mankind is out of karmic balance and needs to evolve quickly to save itself and the earth from a host of problems.

They believe aliens have come to earth and live among us on higher planes of existence.



Jehovah's Witness - They believe Jesus Christ is not eternal and not Almighty God; Jesus is the first creation of Jehovah. Before his incarnation, Jesus was Michael, the archangel, through whom Jehovah made the universe.

They believe Satan and his wicked angels were banished from heaven in 1914 - which explains why life on earth has been so terrible since then.

They believe that only 144,000 will go to heaven and that everyone else will remain on earth and must obey God perfectly for 1,000 years or be annihilated.



Mormonism - They believe Jesus is a separate being from God the father and was created from a sexual union between Mary and Elohim (a resurrected being from another planet). They believe that Jesus and Satan were brothers. When Jesus was selected to be the savior of the world, Satan rebelled, initiating a great holy war in heaven. As punishment, the Heavenly Father decreed that Satan would never have a human body.

They believe Native Americans are descendants of Jews, "the Lost tribes of Israel," that migrated to America in 600 BC. After Jesus was resurrected, he traveled to Missouri and appeared to the Native Americans and tried to revive the heavenly father's plan on golden plates but never enacted. The Native Americans had failed as their Hebrew ancestors had done, thus setting the stage for the renewal of God's perfect plan through Joseph Smith.



Scientology - They do not acknowledge God of the Bible. They believe that through "auditing," a process of clearing by using E-meters, Auditors can detect areas of wrong thinking in a person. Then through drills, disciplines, and counseling, one is believed to be able to erase engrams (mental images of an experience containing pain, unconsciousness and a real or fancied threat to survival) from the mind. Critics claim the church charges excessive amounts of money to do this.

According to a website about Scientology, Scientology founded L. Ron Hubbard writes that, 75 million years ago, the head of the Galactic Federation, made up of 76 planets, was a being named Xenu. Faced with an overpopulation problem, he brought beings to this planet, blew them up with hydrogen bombs, and packaged them. Their spirits now infest our bodies: he says "One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body." Scientologists at this level try to rid themselves of these thetans (spirits) by helping each one to remember the painful experiences of being blown up like that.

The Xenu story is part of the Church of Scientology's secret "Advanced Technology", normally only revealed to members who have already contributed large amounts of money.



Hare Krishna - Iskcon - They believe Jesus was a teacher who taught his people to meditate. Their God is Krishna who lives within all. The most significant belief/practice of Krishnas is the practice of chanting the Krishna mantra: "Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare," to rid oneself from material dirt and bad karma.


Rastafarianism - They believe that Jesus was an incarnation of Jah, who was black, not white. They believe that marijuana is the "wisdom weed" and that smoking it is a holy sacrament supported by Genesis 3:18, Exodus 10:12, and Psalm 104:14. Author Leonard Barrett writes: "The herb is the key to new understanding of the self, the universe, and God. It is the vehicle to cosmic consciousness."




I'm beginning to suspect that all of the above religious beliefs are the result of smoking weed.

And lots of it.



Rick

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

For the purpose of Discussion I would propose Establishing a Definition for each:


Christian- A follower of Church leader who believes in the leader's and intstitution's teachings. This paradigm is based on their interpretataion of selected verses in the Old and New Testament that they feel are appropriate while eschewing inappropriate ones that contradict their paradigm.

The capital"C " denotes a proprietory status claimed by the institution of their own discipline of thought with its belief that it speaks for Christ and possesses the Divine Authority to reward or condemn as His proxy.

To be a Christian you must agree with the intstitution's position. Inclusion or exclusion is at their discretion based on their definition and their set of rules that they carefully selected from scripture; either comply or you are not a "Christian ."


christian- One who believes that Christ is the divine son of God as defined in the Old Testament. A christian follows Christ's Teaching through his/her own interpretation as opposed to following an institutional interpretation even through he/she may attend a church. The small case "c" denotes the absence of a proprietory claim to speak for Christ as His proxy.

I'm at somewhat of a loss to critique, however, because I'm not really sure I understand exactly what you mean with the above. That said, I'll give it a whirl....

"Christians" have one uniting concept upon which they can all agree (I think!): Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah/the Christ sent by God as foretold in the Old Testament; and, having been sent by God, was both fully human and fully divine (or God incarnate). By his death, resurrection and ascension, he atones for the sins of the world and makes possible the reconciliation of God and Creation.

What this means exactly in terms of theology, history, liturgy, etc., as well as interpreting Jesus' life, teachings, and ministry prior to his crucifixion, is where "Christians" take different paths. Check out an interesting graphic here.

Ultimately, whether Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, it's the individual who decides their relationship with "Christianity". Indeed, the absolute height of hypocrisy is when one Christian has the chutzpah to accuse another of "cafeteria Christianity". Christians all have to choose in one way or another what being a Christian means specifically to them and in their lives. Sure, a particular church may show you the door if you don't measure up, but another will welcome you in.

In the end, the only judge that matters is God.

[scott snedeker]

Originally Posted by dsdrane

Reply pending...must wait for head to stop spinning.

I am curious as to why your head is spinning. I thought that distinguishing between someone claiming to be speaking as Christ's proxy and someone with metaphysical belief in Christ but does not claim to be his proxy was clear.

Originally Posted by Rick336

I'm beginning to suspect that all of the above religious beliefs are the result of smoking weed.

And lots of it.

Rick

I agree with you, Rick. All of these religions are metaphysical paradigms that are created by humans. It is easy to point out how inconsistent and chimerical they appear when contrasted to modern thinking. I would like to use a scientific metaphor:

Basic Chemisrty:

Na+ OH- + H+ Cl- -------> Na+Cl- + H2O

This is a tool using the "Octet-Valent" Model to predict the outcome of a chemical reaction between sodium hydroxide and Hydrochloric acid producing sodium chloride (salt) and water

Now no one today really thinks a sodium hydroxide molecule is shaped like a capital "N" subcase "a" with 2 dots on all four sides of it.

But the model is useful to predict the result of mixing these two substances.

Models and representations are all that humans have to understanding what we encounter. Some are useful and soome are useless or even dangerous, harming one's self or another.

I find usefulness in the Octet-valent model for inorganic chemistry. I also find usefulness in Druidic Pagan values for our environment and my entitlement to life harmonius with my basic nature. I find Buddhist teachings and traditions healing for my emotional wounds and emotional mental recovery and enhancing my capacity to thrive.

So I put a set of questions to you:

Do you have awareness of your own conscious existence?

Do your Hickory trees have more awareness than a crescent wrench?

Can they sense light, water and temperature or other Hickory trees and respond to them?

How is that different from yourself?

How is that similar to yourself?

Does a thriving forest or a coral reef have an awareness of the interaction of all the living components within or is each organism aware only of itself and no awareness shared between any living organism?

[dsdrane]

post stoned.

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

I am curious as to why your head is spinning. I thought that distinguishing between someone claiming to be speaking as Christ's proxy and someone with metaphysical belief in Christ but does not claim to be his proxy was clear.

Firstly, I find your "C" versus "c" to be a false dichotomy.

Secondly, I was curious as to why you felt the need to define something that you clearly are not.

Thirdly, I have no idea what you're talking about with respect to "Christ's proxy".

And, for good measure, I read it at 7 am (my fault entirely).

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by scott snedeker

I agree with you, Rick. All of these religions are metaphysical paradigms that are created by humans.

Good. Then we agree.

It is easy to point out how inconsistent and chimerical they appear when contrasted to modern thinking. I would like to use a scientific metaphor:

Basic Chemisrty:

Na+ OH- + H+ Cl- -------> Na+Cl- + H2O

This is a tool using the "Octet-Valent" Model to predict the outcome of a chemical reaction between sodium hydroxide and Hydrochloric acid producing sodium chloride (salt) and water

Now no one today really thinks a sodium hydroxide molecule is shaped like a capital "N" subcase "a" with 2 dots on all four sides of it.

But the model is useful to predict the result of mixing these two substances.

Models and representations are all that humans have to understanding what we encounter. Some are useful and some are useless or even dangerous, harming one's self or another.

You've lost me here. How does this relate to imaginary religious beliefs?

I find usefulness in the Octet-valent model for inorganic chemistry. I also find usefulness in Druidic Pagan values for our environment and my entitlement to life harmonius with my basic nature. I find Buddhist teachings and traditions healing for my emotional wounds and emotional mental recovery and enhancing my capacity to thrive.

Whatever works for you.

As for me, I find reality (the natural world that can be measured by empirical evidence) to be all I need. Instead of prayer or wishing on a star or rubbing a lucky rabbit's foot, I have found that meeting life's challenges through rational problem solving and logic works best.

So I put a set of questions to you:

Do you have awareness of your own conscious existence?

Yes.

Do your Hickory trees have more awareness than a crescent wrench?

So far, science has found no evidence that awareness exists outside of a human or animal brain. Since hickory trees and crescent wrenches lack a brain, logic tells me that they probably have no awareness.

Can they sense light, water and temperature or other Hickory trees and respond to them?

I think the chances of a crescent wrench sensing anything is 0%. I don't know if the hickory trees can sense light, water, and temperature, but I doubt it.

How is that different from yourself?

I can sense light, water, and temperature.

How is that similar to yourself?

The only similarities I have to crescent wrenches and hickory trees is that we are all made from the same atoms.

Does a thriving forest or a coral reef have an awareness of the interaction of all the living components within or is each organism aware only of itself and no awareness shared between any living organism?

I would have to say that since a coral reef can't think, it probably has no clue about the forest. Same goes for the forest about the reef.

The valleys, however, think the mountains are high on drugs.


Rick

[dsdrane]

Originally Posted by Rick336

You've lost me here. How does this relate to imaginary religious beliefs?

Or imaginary atheistic beliefs, for that matter.

[Daniel]

Oh Zeus! Save us!

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by Daniel

Oh Zeus! Save us!

Zeus retired in 600 BC and is no longer taking prayer requests. Please make another selection.


Rick