The dangerous ex-gay movement

[Rick336]

From 365gay.com News:

"They say god has a better way than the way I live my life. And I say, what do they know about the way I live my life?"

Read article here --->http://www.365gay.com/opinion/neff-t...-gay-movement/


Rick

[Daniel]

The ex-gay folks are still using this bad research?

New information from writer Thomas Maier suggests that one of the major studies cited to support of ex-gay therapy was falsified.

Maier, in the book “Masters of Sex” and in an article in Scientific American, raises serious questions about the validity of a study by William Masters and Virginia Johnson.

In “Homosexuality in Perspective” in 1979, Masters and Johnson claimed to have “converted” more than 70 percent of women and men struggling with homosexuality.

Staffers at the Masters and Johnson clinic from 1969 to 1977, the research period for which the 70 percent “conversion rate” was made, say then never met any of the converts, the ex-gays.

One team at the clinic maintains they never treated gays, and heard virtually nothing about ex-gay therapy.

Masters, according to Maier, refused to show one associate any files or share tape recordings on alleged conversions, and even Masters’ colleague, Johnson, is on the record as saying, “Bill was being creative in those days.”

“Creative” becomes a soft word for reckless.

And this study showed ex-gay advocates the way?

I read about Master's and Johnson's study being discredited more than a year ago. And they are still flogging bad information? If figures. Glad the author highlighted this.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Daniel

And they are still flogging bad information?

Check out BTB’s latest on Exodus:

What “Grace and Truth” Look Like in the Exodus Church Network

Perhaps we can look at the ideal Exodus Church, the one that Exodus so admires that the pastor has spoken at Exodus’ Freedom Conference, the church so in line with boldly loving grace and truth that Alan Chambers invited the pastor to write a recommendation published with his new book: Miles McPherson of The Rock Church in San Diego.

This Miles McPherson uses every bad "study" in the book. The most egregious was this:

Recently in Pennsylvania, a woman was arrested and sentenced for 47 years in prison because she had the following bumper sticker: God loves homosexuals, but homosexuality is a sin. This is only one of the many current and shocking examples of Christian prosecution presented in today’s message.

So yes, they're still flinging, they're just doing it indirectly now.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Daniel

The ex-gay folks are still using this bad research?

I read about Master's and Johnson's study being discredited more than a year ago. And they are still flogging bad information? If figures. Glad the author highlighted this.

For the record, here's the thread you started on it:

http://www.soulforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6240

[offog]

There's an "ex-gay" social conservative activist named Bill Whatcott who used to be based in Regina and I believe he's been in Edmonton for the last few years. He's rabid ani-abortionist and rabid gay-hater. Some years back he ended up hit with a restraining order for picketing outside the Regina Planned Parenthood office with gory pictures of fetuses.

Some years back he ran for mayor of Regina. (He was a "fringe candidate".) Part of his platform was to force Planned Parenthood and the Human Rights Commission to move outside the city limits. I assume that his gripe with Planned Parenthood is that they're abortion-mongers. I guess his gripe with the Human Rights Commission is that is stands up for the rights of those evil gays and radical feminist abortion-mongers.

Lately, he's been a lot more focused on hating gays. One of my gay political buddies told a group of us that Whatcott says he doesn't advocate killing gays, but it should be legal to publicly say kill the gays. If you're saying "Huh??", that's what I thought too.

BTW, is it legal in America to spread hate against GLBT people? I'm asking because I know that in a lot of jurisdictions, there are no laws to protect gays from discrimination, so maybe there's nothing to protect them from hate either.

[Rick336]

Originally Posted by offog

Lately, he's been a lot more focused on hating gays. One of my gay political buddies told a group of us that Whatcott says he doesn't advocate killing gays, but it should be legal to publicly say kill the gays.

What he really needs to focus on is being an ex-asshole.


Rick

[BishopIoan]

Yes, offog, it is still legal to spread hate against GLBTQ people in the US. Of course the First Amendment always comes up, but as far as I am concerned, the right to free speech ends when you incite hatred and violence against any group.

Unfortunately, the fundamentalist meddling in government is so strong, I do not believe we will be able to EVER pass hate speech legislation--we have a hard enough time passing hate crimes bills. I do not understand how this sort of thing is allowed and yet it is.

If I ever have a chance to emigrate to Canada, you may be sure I will seize it.

[Emproph]

Originally Posted by Rick336

The dangerous ex-gay movement

RE article:

But I don’t need anyone showing me the way out of homosexuality. Thank you, no, preachers Lou Engle and Michael Brown. Thank you, no, Exodus International.

These are political figures/players who are decidedly ANTI-GAY.

There are many people who will never get over what they consider to be the ugliness of being gay. For them, a life of willful and conscious denial is the only thing that will save their sanity.

Those who exploit sincere people like that---who cannot handle their perceived-to-be evil/ugly attractions---are the real enemy.

The “Ex-Gay Movement” is at the heart of the anti-gay agenda: “People don’t choose to be gay, but they can choose not to be.”

It's disgusting, I know, but regardless, some people still will never get over it, and they need to be understood and validated.

There are “ex-gays” who are victims of the “ex-gay movement” too. But they’re not part of it because they have integrity and know how to Google.

And what if they’re atheist? How many “ministries” would cater to a non-believer without proselytization?

My point is that a distinction needs to be made. And yes, I realize that it’s the political ex-gay movement that CREATES and feeds such oceans of shame and self loathing, and that needs to be combated.

But for some, sad as it is, they will never ever get over it. And they will be happier and more productive living the ex-gay "lifestyle."

[psycho_drama]

Psychology is a relatively young science, but it has something that no other science has, the human element. Since all humans are different they will always have different outcomes to the same experience not matter how small.
Obvious problems with EX-GAY

1. research that is outdated and replicated.
one of the ways of removing bias from research studies are 1) random selection)random assignment. this helps keep a researcher's bias from interfering with the work. before any study can be accepted as something applicable it has to be replicated again and again( I don't know how many time) but it has to be the same for most of a population. Since ones experiences will be different from the next no matter what you cant say the thing about everyone. Thats not done with this so called repetitive therapy. they are trying to put everyone into a cookie cutter. There two things that don't exist in psychology, always and never.

Sexuality is somewhat fluid in some instances and some times not. since they(ex-gay movement people) forgo research and accurate documentation, I cannot take their word for anything.

Bias is the most dangerous thing to research it can contaminate the findings. that is why the various methods of science exist, so that there is as little bias as possible. Random selection and random assignment and the double blind are so important.

The assumption of homosexuality is a disease is bias.

a better question is does being gay affect negatively to a persons social mobility? and then you would devise a test or operational definition of what social mobility is and weather or not gay people fit that hypothesis, having gay people of all races, backgrounds, nationalities and genders, every possible difference you could think of, and at the same time have a control group as your baseline.

only after all of that could you say that it is positively(yes there is a relationship) or negatively correlated(no there is no relationship) correlated or a factor. correlation does not relate directly to causality. scientist, the good ones anyway, throw out or rewrite a hypothesis when research conflicts with the original hypothesis not the other way around you do rewrite the research to match your views. Science is as vulnerable to the human element as anything else, but there are established procedures do remove as much human bias as possible to let the research stand for it self.

Since homosexuality has been remove from all psychiatric and psychology manuals as a disease or disorder in this country saying that it is a disease when has been proven not to be, is no longer science, it is willful ignorance.

Gay Neuropsychologist Simon LeVay has done research on the hypothalamus on deceased gay and straight males doing a blind study by having the orientation of the corpse kept secret from him, and discovered a difference.
That the neural clusters of the hypothalamus were smaller(or more of a female typical arrangement) in gay men than straight men. because he was ignorant of the corpses orientation, his bias was not transferred to his research. I have not ever see this in EX-GAY anything.